Job Adjustments and Additions Part I (07/03/2009)

[Gunitsoldier]

Didn't say you had to charm them all the time. You stated Familiar is useless. Guess what? It's not.
Once again, you're an idiot. You CAN charm ANYTHING in the game that is of a charmable family and isn't a notorious monster. It doesn't mater if it's IT+++++++++++++++++++++++++++. Charm will land eventually, and when it does you can familiar, which is what this argument was about in the first place, dumbass. Learn game mechanics

Sorry, BST 2h is worse than BLU.
No job has the right to complain unless BST has them beat.

And yeah, worthless NIN update, could of come up with something better. They got lazy after WHM.

Oh I'm sorry, I thought I was Bazing , not SephYuyX.

Pay attention dickface.

You're not even worth the effort of typing out how dumb you are, go do what I asked you to and then come back(empty handed).

[Zelduh]

I triple dog dare you to go to DA as lv 1 BST and charm a darter, get me pics of you succeeding in this and I shall cut off my balls for you.

You clearly don't understand how charm works. Charm will always have a 5% success rate MINIMUM. I never said you would be charming things FREQUENTLY as level 1 BST. You can, in fact, charm a darter with enough tries as BST1. End of story.

[Ddboner]

He is kinda right, my friend and I did that stuff all the time. EX: x2 bst go in sacrarium. Both spam charm at an IT heceye, once one gets it familiars, attacks a seperate eye until the remaining bst gets it, then he familiars bam x2 IT heceyes etc... anyhow. just saying

[Gunitsoldier]

Good, go do it , Zelduh.

Nice avoid on your argument being directed at Trixi but you saying it to me btw

Also, I know you CAN but since my first post I've been saying that you can't ALWAYS. Yet you keep going, if you agree with that part, stfu and stop with derailing

[Zelduh]

Good, go do it.

How about you go try it, fucker? I don't have anything to prove, I already know how the game works. Why don't you go there and try it yourself, maybe you'll learn a thing or two.

[Gunitsoldier]

You're trying to pursuade me with your ideas of lving BST at lv 1 by charming colibris, man up and do as you say.

Last post I'm making about this , ruining a perfectly good thread with this nonsense.

[fantasticdan]

I evasion tank/solo lots of things... a JA that increase enmity/evasion while tanking is a welcomed change. As long as the accuracy cut can be countered by using sushi, I know I'll be using this a lot. For the people who use NIN to tank HNM it looks like a great addition to have. Depending on the boost, and the severity of degradation this JA has a lot of potential.

I'd say it mostly depends the ratio you trade accuracy for evasion. If it's 1:1 I'd say it will be pretty useless for solo/eva tanking (except as an oh-shit button), as the stuff I have a hard time dodging is the same stuff I have a hard time hitting. If it's a 2:1 gain or better it could be pretty good.

As for tanking HNM type stuff I'm not excited about this ability. Generating enmity isn't the issue with nin/drk compared to pld/nin, it's the lower survivability, requirement of more support/healing, and lack of a way to deal any real damage like atonement.

[Zelduh]

You're trying to pursuade me with your ideas of lving BST at lv 1 by charming colibris, man up and do as you say.

Last post I'm making about this , ruining a perfectly good thread with this nonsense.

You're a fucking idiot. Learn about fucking game mechanics. This is advanced, isn't it? Act like you know anything about the game. Anything that isn't immune to charm can be charmed by anyone with charm. This may be shocking to you: A level 11 RDM can land bind on Kirin, too!

Now shut the fuck up.

[Budonez]

As for Innin... I'm welcoming the JA openly. It doesn't conform to how people normally play ninja, but it does open up new possibilities. At this point in the game, many DD are strong and capable of mitigating damage in their own ways. Playing ninja as a DD that doesn't voke is much easier to do now because of this. Gaining an acc+/crit+ boost is a big enhancement to both their TP phase and WS ouput. It would also make it easier to build a Haste/Attack food build. Again depending on the boost, and the severity of the degredation, I see potential.

You can still voke with Innin, I don't see the problem with using it for merit mobs/nyzul/salvage/etc.

[fantasticdan]

You can still voke with Innin, I don't see the problem with using it for merit mobs/nyzul/salvage/etc.

But I do see a problem with using nin for merits/nyzul/salvage in the first place...

[Budonez]

But I do see a problem with using nin for merits/nyzul/salvage in the first place...

touche, I don't play ninja at all anymore lol

[Gunitsoldier]

touche, I don't play ninja at all anymore lol

No matter how good NIN is, if I had an Aegis i'd say fu NIN too.

[Toth]

I'd say it mostly depends the ratio you trade accuracy for evasion. If it's 1:1 I'd say it will be pretty useless for solo/eva tanking (except as an oh-shit button), as the stuff I have a hard time dodging is the same stuff I have a hard time hitting. If it's a 2:1 gain or better it could be pretty good.

As for tanking HNM type stuff I'm not excited about this ability. Generating enmity isn't the issue with nin/drk compared to pld/nin, it's the lower survivability, requirement of more support/healing, and lack of a way to deal any real damage like atonement.

You can maybe spam the elemental wheel with the addition of increase ninja tool expertise and enfeeble the mob with ninjustu instead of pure atonement (what does a decent geared NIN do on high level mobs WS damage wise?) Could be some welcome damage and ultimately cheaper.

[Seraph]

I still think my NIN is staying at 37. Will be interesting to see though.

[evilpaul]

You can maybe spam the elemental wheel with the addition of increase ninja tool expertise and enfeeble the mob with ninjustu instead of pure atonement (what does a decent geared NIN do on high level mobs WS damage wise?) Could be some welcome damage and ultimately cheaper.

Very poorly.

[Yugl]

Sorry, BST 2h is worse than BLU.
No job has the right to complain unless BST has them beat.

And yeah, worthless NIN update, could of come up with something better. They got lazy after WHM.

I agree. I see the concept of tanking v attacking, but if I recall correctly, unless you're sub RDM or sub DRK, isn't the point of NIN tanking to tank by DDing?

The way I saw NIN tanking was:

Lesser mobs: Use DMG to tank
HNM type mobs: Use sub RDM or sub DRK to tank

This update basically has the potential to return NINs to the frontlines. However, for lesser mobs, if you need to hit from behind to get the DMG bonus, you're not really tanking. I guess it might help those NINs XPing on Colibri that cannot keep hate off their BRDs. Keep attacking from behind until you get hate! Depending on the damage increase, having two NINs (So at least one has the effect of the Crit bonus effects) may mean better hate bounce.

[Kaeko]

Probably been said before in this thread, but you need to know the numbers before you declare this as useless or game-breaking.

There are a lot of very cool concepts in FFXI ruined by poor numbers being given to them. Ambush was a great example someone mentioned as nice concept but poor in practice due to numbers. Sentinel changes would be a good example of the opposite.

I know the whole point of this thread is speculation but you have to see the numbers to really know if these are use-ful/less or not.

[Rocl]

Ninja will be the de facto tank of things that don't turn to face people.

[Zelduh]

http://i40.tinypic.com/2m7t9v8.png

Owned. Now do us all a favor and promptly go kill yourself.

[laverna]

Granted the changes don't seem game breaking, I don't understand why people are saying this update is useless.

I evasion tank/solo lots of things... a JA that increase enmity/evasion while tanking is a welcomed change. As long as the accuracy cut can be countered by using sushi, I know I'll be using this a lot. For the people who use NIN to tank HNM it looks like a great addition to have. Depending on the boost, and the severity of degradation this JA has a lot of potential.

As for Innin... I'm welcoming the JA openly. It doesn't conform to how people normally play ninja, but it does open up new possibilities. At this point in the game, many DD are strong and capable of mitigating damage in their own ways. Playing ninja as a DD that doesn't voke is much easier to do now because of this. Gaining an acc+/crit+ boost is a big enhancement to both their TP phase and WS ouput. It would also make it easier to build a Haste/Attack food build. Again depending on the boost, and the severity of the degredation, I see potential.

When I read these update notes, the first thing that came to my mind was the idea of re-examining one of my favorite jobs, and being able to play it in a new way.

Totally agree with you and was thinking same thing. With PLD being the undisputed best overall tank what I think SE is trying to do is not make NIN Necessary a better tank job. I think what they are trying to do with these new JA is instead reinvent the job.