Whats Better? II

[FailureMidgard]

Is capped accuracy "in" this season? Focusing on Haste and Acc and completely ignoring attack/str in TP is stupid. You shouldn't purely focus on WS rate, you should also look at the damage you do in your TP phase. (Different for Sam etc etc sure).

Capped Acc is good, but not if you're sacrificing a lot of attack. There will be times where sitting at 85% Acc and using meat will outdo having 95% acc using sushi and the same gear.
And yes pizza is good, but if your hit rate is sitting around 85-90, I have a hard time believing the 20acc will make up for the 80-90 attack you could get from using red curry (with proper brd/cor buffs) (if you use a multi-hit WS like Drakes, Guillo or RR/KJ).

I'm not really comparing to Red Curry. If you want to go blow 60k on food, be my guest, but sure, when you get -that- much attack, it's a bit different. I also think I've only ever seen someone use Red Curry once in all the time I've played this game...

Compare it to a more "normal" food though. First off, Going from 85>95% accuracy is an ~11.7% increase in damage. That is in both your TP damage, AND your WS damage. For a normal DD sitting at ~550 attack with 1 minuet and pizza (and not counting berserk at all basically), you would need to gain 64 more attack for a meat to tie the pizza on TP damage alone. Red curry is the -only- food in the game that does this.

Really, people like you come here and spout that attack is good, yet any time any math is done on it, it comes up lacking. Yea, I admit attack is good, but you can't -usually- get it in the quantities needed to make it compete with haste or accuracy.
Also, there are places people can drop accuracy to gain useful stats, IF they use pizza (or, in my earlier case, if you use sushi as a polearm sam). I know nobody wants to drop their Ace's Helm, because it's from an almost-HNM, but sorry, it's a gain in damage to drop it in these situations.

If you want to argue with me, at least make an attempt to have some math to back up what you are saying.

[mdkuser]

I've parsed against myself plenty of times, perhaps the problem is you're trying to use a shitty meat build with your polearm. If you are trying to cap accuracy with no madrigal and no sushi, I think you're doing it wrong. You're better off ignoring accuracy (well, always choosing haste over it), stacking full haste, and eating sushi.

Everyone can make their opinions. I made mine and I use polearm now only in eiherjar where i know ill get 4 songs + 2 cor rolls lol. Im just saying I parsed against myself on the merit colibris and Gkatana is just approximatley the same dmg. My gear is pretty much the best you can use in both set ups, including, for polearm, full usukane A. torque Black talthum, torreador and cuchuains mantle. I get 90% acc with that. Dont think its a shitty meat build.

[FailureMidgard]

Everyone can make their opinions. I made mine and I use polearm now only in eiherjar where i know ill get 4 songs + 2 cor rolls lol. Im just saying I parsed against myself on the merit colibris and Gkatana is just approximatley the same dmg. My gear is pretty much the best you can use in both set ups, including, for polearm, full usukane A. torque Black talthum, torreador and cuchuains mantle. I get 90% acc with that. Dont think its a shitty meat build.

You are willingly giving up haste and accuracy so you can use meat.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Everyone can make their opinions. I made mine and I use polearm now only in eiherjar where i know ill get 4 songs + 2 cor rolls lol. Im just saying I parsed against myself on the merit colibris and Gkatana is just approximatley the same dmg. My gear is pretty much the best you can use in both set ups, including, for polearm, full usukane A. torque Black talthum, torreador and cuchuains mantle. I get 90% acc with that. Dont think its a shitty meat build.

This isn't a matter of opinion. You're wrong.

[Cream Soda]

Usu mask is worse than Turban. People need to stop sacrificing haste for accuracy, you can cap accuracy without losing haste anywhere.

As far as mnk is concerned, unless you have haste and 2 marches, this is generally untrue unless your acc is capped/close to cap.

[IronPandemonium]

As far as mnk is concerned, unless you have haste and 2 marches, this is generally untrue unless your acc is capped/close to cap.

this is why i don't visit bg occasionally veg

[FailureMidgard]

As far as mnk is concerned, unless you have haste and 2 marches, this is generally untrue unless your acc is capped/close to cap.

1. My post was clearly in response to a pole sam.
2. The second half of exactly what you quoted talks about capping accuracy...
3. My mnk with 0 h2h merits caps accuracy (because I use pizza).
4. You should always have haste and 2 marches.

this is why i don't visit bg occasionally veg

Because people here are smarter than you?

[IronPandemonium]

Because people here are smarter than you?

that had potential

4. You should always have haste and 2 marches.

but then i read that and was all

oooooooooooookay.

[Cream Soda]

4. You should always have haste and 2 marches.



(

Not everyone lives in your perfect imaginary world where everyone in your pt has some sort of relic and have 2 marches every time

[dantaro]

Not everyone lives in your perfect imaginary world where everyone in your pt has some sort of relic and have 2 marches every time

If you're talking birds, then there really isn't a reason you shouldn't have 2 marches and haste all the time. BRDs aren't THAT rare.

[IronPandemonium]

what are corsairs

Spoiler: show

cor/drk roll, minuet/march

[Wolfknight]

what are corsairs

Spoiler: show

cor/drk roll, minuet/march

an inferior buffer class from last thread according to fail.

[IronPandemonium]

i... assume i should read bg more often to know what you're talking about there exactly.

hi wolf :3

EDIT: OH THE DOUBLE MARCH PERSON... whoops; when i read "fail", i thinking to myself "ummm i think i'm missing the point", which i apparently was

[Yugl]

I even have a brave grip rotting in my storage. I don't why I didn't think of using that.

Just some specifics on Wolf's "It varies by mob" comment.

Omega:
Sword/Shield does ~1.1kDMG
Fire/Brave does ~1.3kDMG

Odin:
Sword/Shield does ~900-1kDMG
Fire/Brave does ~800-900DMG

Note:
On Omega, Minne appeared to have no effect when using my 2hr. I did 2.3k with Minne and 2.3k without Minne. I have no idea why this is, but maybe Azure Lore maxes the ATT value that DEF provides

On Odin, another person has actually shown better more consistent damage using Fire/Brave, but maxed out his STR unlike in my build. It's quite possible that Odin requires more STR in order to see better numbers than Omega. Interestingly enough, Brave *should* provide better numbers the higher your base damage is compared to the DEF from shield. After all, if you're already doing a lot of damage, what will help you more? Twenty-four DEF or 10% DMG increase?

Edit: Even on Colibri, Fire/Brave wins. Based on the numbers I've seen, Fire/Brave seems to win once your damage starts reaching 1k. Since I never managed to consistently hit that on Odin, it's possibly the reason Fire/Brave did not beat Sword/Shield.

[FailureMidgard]

that had potential



but then i read that and was all

oooooooooooookay.

9% haste ties Minuet4 for monks essentially, and beats Minuet4 for every 2h DD.

Not everyone lives in your perfect imaginary world where everyone in your pt has some sort of relic and have 2 marches every time

? I party without a relic basically all the time. 9% haste is mathematically better than the attack you are going for. Requires -1- bard. That is it. My imaginary perfect world with a single bard in every melee party.

what are corsairs

Spoiler: show

cor/drk roll, minuet/march

Cor/drk/march/march, thanks for playing.

an inferior buffer class from last thread according to fail.

Corsair is inferior on it's own. Once you have 1 bard, corsair is the best 2nd buffer. You probably missed that fact before.


I like how not once has anyone been able to offer any proof that their minuet/march was the best, mathematically. All they can do is make random, uneducated comments, and then when the math is shown to them, they quickly forget it next time the topic comes up.

One more time, assuming you have haste (is a red mage asking for too much?) and March2, comparing march1 and minuet4:

~19 base haste, +11 +15 = 45% haste.
~450-500 base attack (if you have more than this, then minuet4 becomes even worse).

Going from 45>54% haste = (1/.46 - 1/.55)/(1/.55) = (2.174 - 1.818)/1.818 = .356/1.818 = 19.6% increase in both TP dmg, and WS rate.

Fully merited minuet is +66attack, +66/450 = 14.6% increase in TP dmg, and some WS dmg (depends on job). For 66 attack to be a 19.6% increase, you need 66/.196 = current attack = 336. If you have 336 attack or lower, then minuet4 beats out march1.

Really, I could even redo the math at lower values, but it -doesn't fucking matter-. Your epeen WS #s with minuets may be fun, but they are not better damage over time, unless you have awful gear with little to no haste, and similar attack, March1 beats Minuet4.

[Ragnus]

Assuming I have the +25Acc/4Str/5Att WS piece from MKD what's better for Jin? Smilodon+1 or Amemet+1?

[eva00r]

After all, if you're already doing a lot of damage, what will help you more? Twenty-four DEF or 10% DMG increase?

Brave Grip is nowhere near 10%, it's just only 3-5%. Also, it's not really 24 DEF for shield, you will get almost 40 DEF through Cocoon/Food stacking. However, 3-5% damage increased will outperform a shield assuming your defense value reached the capped ratio. When Angon and Dia3 are both applied to a target, a Brave Grip will almost always outperform a shield.

Assuming I have the +25Acc/4Str/5Att WS piece from MKD what's better for Jin? Smilodon+1 or Amemet+1?

Forager's Mantle on most things, Cuchulain's on lower defense mobs.

[Cream Soda]

Assuming x-hit isn't lost, pole grip vs sword strap on drg?

Was leaning towards sword strap, but then you have not only ws but also jump da procs to look at

[Yugl]

Brave Grip is nowhere near 10%, it's just only 3-5%. Also, it's not really 24 DEF for shield, you will get almost 40 DEF through Cocoon/Food stacking. However, 3-5% damage increased will outperform a shield assuming your defense value reached the capped ratio. When Angon and Dia3 are both applied to a target, a Brave Grip will almost always outperform a shield.

Last Parse I saw showed 10%, but if you have contradicting data, you can post it and compare.

[Wolfknight]

Assuming x-hit isn't lost, pole grip vs sword strap on drg?

Was leaning towards sword strap, but then you have not only ws but also jump da procs to look at

my drg rating tends to be 40% melee, 10% jump, and 50% ws ussually so I'd favor pole since affects 100% of dmg vs 40%.