Should FFXIV take some aspects from MMO(x)?

[Correction]

Anyway, back on topic. I really think instances just don't fit into a FF world, disconnects the landscape.

More than burning circles and salvage/nyzul do? More than zoning from la theine > valkurm does? This argument makes zero sense. I guess some people like waiting 3 hours for some wipefest LS to get out of dynamis-xarc. Instances conveniently and effectively address the problem of content bottlenecks like we had in Dynamis, Sky and land kings, which create a strict upper bound on how many people can enjoy endgame over a 24-72 hour period. That's a bullshit system and if it's back in FFXIV then nobody's going to leave FFXI.

[Kawfee]

Instances are definitely a positive thing in game design when it comes to specific raid-type or HNM environments.
Some competition is good, putting really, really hard fights (lolAV) in the World (as in, not instanced) is cool, so people can watch the fight.

However, when having too much competition for something means that only a select few get to experience it, or people have to log off because what they wanted to do is "taken", that is shitty game design.

[lost071]

No losing "exp" or skillups or whatever from death please.

[Kilhart]

I've heard people say WoW is more epic than FFXI because HP and damage is a lot higher in WoW.

In response FFXIV should use all the same numbers as FFXI except with "k" after everything

[Lothiden]

In regards to the LS Bank idea.

It took WoW quite a few years before they finally implamented the "Guild Bank" system.
But when they finally did, it was one of the better systems i've seen. By no means 100% safe, but still very good.

For those of you that don't know how it works:

We would be able to give everyone in the LS "ranks". The lower Ranked people will not have access to the LS Bank, they can look and deposit items or Gil, but they can't take anything out.

Then there is a middle Rank, you can take out some items that are listed in the "not so valuble" section of the LS bank, but are limited to the number of times they can take items out of the bank per day, but you can't take out any Gil, or any items in the "Rare" section of the Bank. But you can always deposite items and Gil.

and then there are the Top Ranked people, they pretty much have full range of the LS Bank. They can take out any item and any amount of Gil. Of course these are usually the Leaders of the LS that hold these possitions.

Also, for each section of the LS Bank there is a record that is kept of every withdrawl, and ever deposit. with a Time Stamp, giving date and time. This helps not only to keep tabs on who is taking stuff and what they are taking, but also shows who is actually contributing to the LS.

For all you other WoW players, you already know this info. But for people that don't play WoW, i have to say... it is a pretty good system.

[Elcura]

It's like Big Brother is watching you in an MMO setting. Seeing if you've been a good boy by giving up your hard earned cash to earn scraps.

By all means it's not a bad system, I'm just paranoid that people are watching me.

[Warudo Ecksu]

it's good to watch what people are doing cuz you get people like Kuai who take out hella shit from the guild bank but never deposit anything aside from junk

[Datonare]

Jumping I'm a little indifferent about... It can be fun to jump around and such, but I'd like there to be purpose behind it. Maybe some sort of platforming in certain dungeons (which could just end up being annoying, but that's subjective I guess).

I do like epic world spawns, like fafnir, behemoth, etc. but I think the 3 hour window is redundant, there really is no reason for it other than to be a stupid time sink. If they spawned every 24 hours on the dot, it'd be cool I think. Everyone could gather at the spot for the time, if you claim it, great, if you don't... well, you only wasted ~30 mins, rather than up to 3 hours.

PvP can be fun and a nice change of pace, but balancing a game just for PvE or just for PvP can be hard enough (look at Warhammer for example). So I think one area suffers, or both suffer equally. With that said, I wouldn't care if there was no PvP, I'd rather have stronger and more focused PvE content.

I really like instances, I don't think they cut you off from the "world". Anything ranging from 3 man to 36 man can be fun, and especially like 3-6 man instances near the beginning of the game can get people interacting with each other.

Taken right from Warhammer, but I really like their Public Quest system. For those unfamiliar, it's basically a quest that is ongoing, 24/7, that anyone can participate in simply by entering the area it's taking place in. The first quest will be: Kill 100 things, second will be: Kill 10 tough things, third will be: Kill 1 tougher thing, etc. At the end, those who have contributed the most in completing each stage of the quest will be rewarded with loot bags, which will give you a choice at a few rewards catered to your job/class.

Another thing I like with the public quests were open parties, you could simply join a party instantly and kill some stuff with them, like at a public quest, then be on your way.

SE does seem to like getting people to work together, and having casual content like public quests where people can join up quickly and accomplish something I think can build friendships and you will find people you like partying with for content later on in the game.

Aw, I'm rambling on... going to stop there for now

[Elcura]

it's good to watch what people are doing cuz you get people like Kuai who take out hella shit from the guild bank but never deposit anything aside from junk

Lol, you have a point for sure.

[Plow]

If you can't jump I won't even do a trial account.


And WoW guild bank system is fucking fantastic, if you get screwed either someone got hacked and it will likely get fixed, or it's absolutely and entirely your own fault, and there's still a chance of it getting fixed.

[100percentile]

It's like Big Brother is watching you in an MMO setting. Seeing if you've been a good boy by giving up your hard earned cash to earn scraps.

By all means it's not a bad system, I'm just paranoid that people are watching me.

Seriously. I feel sorry for people who are in those huge WoW guilds with ridiculous rules and "ranks".

[Shippou]

I've heard people say WoW is more epic than FFXI because HP and damage is a lot higher in WoW.

In response FFXIV should use all the same numbers as FFXI except with "k" after everything

Honestly, it does seem cooler in WoW when your Fireball does 10k+ damage on a crit, instead of seeing a Fire IV in FFXI for like 1200-1400 damage.

Yeah, it's roughly about the same percentages for boss fights, but you just feel like you actually are doing damage instead of sporking a boss to death.

Either way, it doesn't make that much difference in the long run, but it would be a nice change.

[Correction]

The model of progression isn't about larger numbers, it's an entirely different system of gating content. Bosses A, B and C drop loots which increase your raid's effectiveness by x%, assuming an aggregation of effectiveness as a weighted sum of DPS, healing and tank survival. And lo! that x% better your raid's output puts you at the threshold to conquer bosses D, E and F and lets you graduate from A, B and C permanently. So it's not just yay my spells did 20k, it's yay my dps and the better heals+tanking lets us beat this boss before he rapega's the lot of us.

FFXI distorts this model in several ways: Job changing, uninspired encounter design (stun! stun! stun! stun! stun!) and non-linear content advancement. Hydra may require good gear but he certainly isn't dropping anything that helps you with Pandemonium Warden. And goddamnit they just added DNC/SCH AF2 to dynamis, guess we're putting that back on the ls calendar.

If something feels more 'epic' as a caster in a non FFXI-MMO it's probably because your contributions to an encounter go beyond stunning firaga for the 30th time in a row.

FFXIV may inevitably inherit stuff from WoW but you can't just slap a multiplier on the numbers and say 'I AM NAO LIEK WOW.'

[BRP]

uninspired encounter design

This is a problem, but it has nothing to do with "progression."

[Correction]

This is a problem, but it has nothing to do with "progression."

If the only requirement to beat the next Tiamat is for your mage to have the spell Stun on macro and good reflexes, then how exactly have you progressed through the game's older content to reach that level of encounter? If the only thing SE can come up on new bosses is a new name for That Stunnable AOE, then how can you even call everything you've done to earn your job as Stun Bitch progress?

[BRP]

I am confused, because I don't see how you are contradicting me...

[Correction]

I'm wondering why you seem to think uninspired content design doesn't dilute the concept of character progression. You say it's got nothing to do with it.

[BRP]

I meant the reverse.

"Uninspired encounter design" is actually the much larger problem and defines the whole game really. So something like "gear progression" and stat changes/exchanges is only going to fall under that. Having a poorly designed battles might hurt gear progression, but what a weird way to put it. That's like saying the hamburger is hurting the ketchup.

[Shippou]

The model of progression isn't about larger numbers, it's an entirely different system of gating content. Bosses A, B and C drop loots which increase your raid's effectiveness by x%, assuming an aggregation of effectiveness as a weighted sum of DPS, healing and tank survival. And lo! that x% better your raid's output puts you at the threshold to conquer bosses D, E and F and lets you graduate from A, B and C permanently. So it's not just yay my spells did 20k, it's yay my dps and the better heals+tanking lets us beat this boss before he rapega's the lot of us.

FFXI distorts this model in several ways: Job changing, uninspired encounter design (stun! stun! stun! stun! stun!) and non-linear content advancement. Hydra may require good gear but he certainly isn't dropping anything that helps you with Pandemonium Warden. And goddamnit they just added DNC/SCH AF2 to dynamis, guess we're putting that back on the ls calendar.

If something feels more 'epic' as a caster in a non FFXI-MMO it's probably because your contributions to an encounter go beyond stunning firaga for the 30th time in a row.

FFXIV may inevitably inherit stuff from WoW but you can't just slap a multiplier on the numbers and say 'I AM NAO LIEK WOW.'

True, I just didn't feel like delving into all of the mechanics behind it really. I've said for years that WoW's battle system is a lot more interactive than FFXI. I think a lot of that has to do with how fast paced WoW is, you're not constantly resting. I also dislike in FFXI that gear progression is basically non-existent. At least in the way you describe, in which, you have to kill x, y, and z to get gear to be able to take down the newer bosses.

Although I think WoW is a bit too gear dependent at times, FFXI isn't dependent enough. The gear we have doesn't do enough, I mean, we should be able to gear up to get hit capped, or to completely cut out the chance of a resist, imo. That leads to more options for gear variations. Just like how my mage in WoW has separate gear for arcane spec and for fire spec. Fire requires more crit, arcane requires more haste.

[Correction]

I wasn't trying to say progression precedes design. Lack of meaningful character progression is definitely a symptom of uncreative content design. But this is basically the inertia present in FFXI, call it 'PS2' limitations, 'they're out of ideas' or whatever FFXI has reached a point where more damage is near meaningless compared to boss ability mitigation on the fights where it should really count equally. It's vital that FFXIV avoid this misstep and properly balance the two. People WANT to TP on/chain nuke Tiamat with their new shinies, but for some reason they made it a bad idea.