Multi-hit WS accuracy testing

[Fwahm]

I've never seen any reports of anyone rigorously testing the accuracy mods on multi-hit Weapon skills, so I thought I'd try a rough test of my own. My sample size isn't very large, but it was simply too tedious for me to continue any longer.

This test is on Guillotine.

I used a level 75 Mamool Ja Bounder for every Weapon skill that I used, and tailored myself to have precisely 50% base accuracy on the monster, and did 100 trials.

I landed the first hit of Guillotine 91/100 times, giving a 91% hit rate.

I landed any of the last three hits of Guillotine 129/300 times, giving a 43% hit rate.

As you can see, my results seem to indicate a huge accuracy boost for the first hit, and a moderate accuracy penalty for the last three. However, I cannot be sure for the latter.

Has anyone else ever made similar tests for other multi-hit Weapon skills?

[Raen Ryong]

From a purely anecdotal standpoint, I've always noticed the first hit of any given multihit to connect more often than the others.

We've been noticing an acc/pdif boost with Tachi: Gekko and its compatriots in particular lately, but I've often thought that the first hit of any WS is special.

Consider the fact that the first hit of any given WS has a unique term of fTP (and also stacks with SA/TA etc when others don't); it's not too much of a stretch to assume that they also have an accuracy bonus and potentially a variable attack bonus.

That is interesting data and confirms what I've presumed anecdotally for months also validates Gorgets more for multihit WSs since your most reliable hit IS your first hit, and so strengthening it is paramount.

[Siniroth]

I think you need a larger sample to definitively claim the accuracy penalty, but this does for sure support the acc boost on the initial hit.

What actual acc did you have? Bounders aren't on my list of mobs with listed acc values so I can't deduce it from that

[Fwahm]

According to my /checks before the test, level 75 Mamool Ja Bounders have 391 evasion.

I had 63 DEX, 292 combat skill, and +11 accuracy, putting my accuracy at 341 accuracy.

[Kirschy]

I think if you're able to post more data samples, and provide the data so that others might pick and poke at it, you'd be leading us all in a good direction~

I've done smaller tests /w WS that had "acc affects tp" mod. But I've always felt the the +acc bonus only worked on the first hit of the WS~

[Siniroth]

I'd hate to test 'tp affects acc' WSes, all my anecdotal evidence of those suggests 300% TP reduces acc I have terrible luck etc

[pchan]

That is interesting data and confirms what I've presumed anecdotally for months also validates Gorgets more for multihit WSs since your most reliable hit IS your first hit, and so strengthening it is paramount.

Nope, it actually weakens the gorget (compared to sea torque) for weapon skill. According to this test, the acc boost from gorget is useless on the first it, and you end up with ftp +0.1 on the first hit, and acc +10 on the following hits.

[Max™]

Pay no attention to what pchan says.

If you're not capping Acc anyways without sea gorget on the first hit, you WILL with it most likely, AND make that hit strong, WHILE making the other hits land more.

Gorgets are not weakened by this, that is fucking retarded to claim.

[Argettio]

I landed the first hit of Guillotine 91/100 times, giving a 91% hit rate.

I landed any of the last three hits of Guillotine 129/300 times, giving a 43% hit rate.

The 4th root of 43% is ~ 80%.

So if you mean you landed 4/4 43% of the time, then on average each of the 4 swings had a 80% chance of landing (0.8*0.8*0.8*0.8 =~ 0.43). Which would actually mean a large buff to the accuracy of each swing.

But I don't think that is what you mean.

Either way you need a much larger sample size and you need to record a percentage for every possible case:
1 hit (first swing hit)
1 hit (first swing miss)
2 hits (first swing hit)
2 hits (first swing miss)
3 hits (first swing hit)
3 hits (first swing miss)
4 hits

[Masamune]

/nod @ Argettio.

Either way you need a much larger sample size and you need to record a percentage for every possible case:
1 hit (first swing hit) = Base TP return %
1 hit (first swing miss) = 0% TP return
2 hits (first swing hit) = Base TP return + 1,STP%
2 hits (first swing miss) = 1,STP%
3 hits (first swing hit) = Base TP return + 2,STP%
3 hits (first swing miss) = 2,STP%
4 hits = Base TP return + 3,STP%
STP= StoreTP%

Added info ^^

That would requires a sample size total for 7 cases of 7x500= 3500 WSs :s {Team up?}{Do you need any help?}

[Argettio]

0 hit = 0% TP return
1 hit (first swing hit) = Base TP return %
1 hit (first swing miss) = 1,STP%
2 hits (first swing hit) = Base TP return + 1,STP%
2 hits (first swing miss) = 2,STP%
3 hits (first swing hit) = Base TP return + 2,STP%
3 hits (first swing miss) = 3,STP%
4 hits = Base TP return + 3,STP%
STP= StoreTP%

You got the TP return wrong for the 3 situations in bold. I have corrected them and added a case which I didn't think of (missing all 4 swings).

The testing would be easier if the tester used 0 sTP, as this would make the TP returns 'easier' to read.

[Masamune]

Indeed my bad, thats what i got for posting early in morning before my coffee lol. Thank you for correction.

[pchan]

Pay no attention to what pchan says.

If you're not capping Acc anyways without sea gorget on the first hit, you WILL with it most likely, AND make that hit strong, WHILE making the other hits land more.

Gorgets are not weakened by this, that is fucking retarded to claim.

Not on the first it, his test suggests huge accuracy boost on the first hit ... And the test totally discredits previous test about gorget supposedely giving 10 acc to all hit... How can you conclude that when the first hit is always capped.

[Starr]

That test is a bit wtf, does it not show Gorgets not giving 10 acc on extra hits or is it me?
I think the sample size of 300 is a pretty large too but could do with a bit more.

[Cream Soda]

Not on the first it, his test suggests huge accuracy boost on the first hit ... And the test totally discredits previous test about gorget supposedely giving 10 acc to all hit... How can you conclude that when the first hit is always capped.

It gives 10 acc to all hits, regardless of your hitrate.

[Starr]

So Cream you think the sample, without a gorget, would give 38% hit rate on the extra hits or what?

[Cream Soda]

So Cream you think the sample, without a gorget, would give 38% hit rate on the extra hits or what?

Haven't read the whole thing yet, lol just telling Pchan that he's wrong. Since he wants to get so technical about it, you get 10 acc regardless, but if your hitrate is capped yo udon't get any more hit rate, but u still get the acc, whether it does something for you or not.

[Argettio]

Indeed my bad, thats what i got for posting early in morning before my coffee lol. Thank you for correction.

NP, and speaking of coffee I will brb

Not on the first it, his test suggests huge accuracy boost on the first hit ... And the test totally discredits previous test about gorget supposedely giving 10 acc to all hit... How can you conclude that when the first hit is always capped.

To say based on this testing that the first hit is capped is a bit far-fetched. To say it gets a boost in accuracy does seem to be true.

But how does this test (showing a innate boost the first hit) discredit tests that show gorgets boost accuracy of the other hits?

So the accuracy the gorget provides for the first hit may not be needed, but I don't see what that changes? As this stands just as true for anything that offers accuracy (torques/PCC/etc).

Gorgets provide that accuracy to the 'other' hits; more acc than torques and similar accuracy to a PCC

Gorgets also provide a increase in damage; which is has been proven to be more than torques, and PCC offers 0 increase in damage.

So gorgets are still the right thing to WS in as far as I can see.

Edit: inb4 "Love torque blah blah best for DRG blah QQ"

[mdkuser]

Haven't read the whole thing yet, lol just telling Pchan that he's wrong. Since he wants to get so technical about it, you get 10 acc regardless, but if your hitrate is capped yo udon't get any more hit rate, but u still get the acc, whether it does something for you or not.

how do you see +10 acc on the first hit, if you have caped accuracy? explain.

[pchan]

But how does this test (showing a innate boost the first hit) discredit tests that show gorgets boost accuracy of the other hits?

So the accuracy the gorget provides for the first hit may not be needed, but I don't see what that changes? As this stands just as true for anything that offers accuracy (torques/PCC/etc).

Gorgets provide that accuracy to the 'other' hits; more acc than torques and similar accuracy to a PCC

Gorgets also provide a increase in damage; which is has been proven to be more than torques, and PCC offers 0 increase in damage.

So gorgets are still the right thing to WS in as far as I can see.

Edit: inb4 "Love torque blah blah best for DRG blah QQ"

The problem is not gorget vs torque, the problem is that gorget are not doing what they are supopoed to do -if the acc boost is true on the first hit-. If you want to "prove" that gorget give +10 to all hits, you classify the tp returns and count the global accuracy when putting all swings together. If you find +5% hitrate the conclusion is that they give +10 acc to all hits. Now if they actually give +10 acc and the first hit gets 80 acc boost, you will not find +5% hit rate... you should find less.