brb siren
Oh sil, you're my hero
It's nothing to do with having installed the program and "seen the light" it's simply that I was uninformed as to how much an advantage it was. Most of the stuff that the windower does SHOULD be able to be toggled on or off in the UI settings for FFXI and anyone who doesn't think SE should fix macros needs to get their head examined. The fact of the matter is the official windower would have never arrived if people weren't asking for it for a long time and using the windower.
AP-radar has nothing to do with windower and site removed it because, dun dun duh, it gave a major advantage to gameplay. Try again though. The windower team specifically are against using programs and plug-ins that give an unfair advantage (fair being subjective but still they do a decent job.) Still waiting for a reason that the windower is so overpowered that it does something that you couldn't do without it. You're not denying that PS2/360 players can't solo everything a windower user can so you don't really have a leg to stand on.
Again by the ToS using the windower is cheating but does it adversely affect others gameplay? Only to such a minor amount that the person who's playing without it would never notice if they weren't told about it. By your logic people with 2 accounts that play one on the computer and one on another machine would be a worse impact because they'd even have a better chance of getting into a LS or duoing NMs/ENMs/Etc. Is having 2 accounts against the ToS? It might be but arguing saying that it's hurting your gameplay experience is ridiculous. What is far more annoying is the amount of morons who are shit players wrecking my experience. Maybe we should ban people if they accidentally wipe their exp parties because you know that's negatively affecting me. Yes it's not against the ToS but by your logic that's why you consider the windower "bad" and advantageous.
There's a certain point when you have to ask yourself "is this stopping me from enjoying the game." For example botting specifically makes it much more difficult for me to get a NM that's a legitimate complaint. Saying "I can't get into a LS because I suck ass compared to the guy using spellcast" just means your a shitty player.
Yugi, with that type of logic. Maybe they should rip down ffxiclopedia too. I mean it has an "unfair" advantage to people who only play on Ps2 / Xbox without a PC. The "unfair" advantage is just an excuse people use to pretend their better than people who use windower. Also build their ego up a bit more even if they use it themselves. You seem to know a lot about these "3rd party" programs Yugi for not using them. I mean I coulda sworn people who didnt use windower knew nothing about what it did. Must be that you in fact looked into using it at one point and did some studying.
Since SE upgraded their servers we can now download above the cap of 56k in-game game play internet speed. (yes when you log in it gets capped). How about we go back to nerfing it to 7 hour download times b/c its unfair to others who have a slower internet speed. I mean the people with faster internet get to play more than the people who still use dial up. Heck they even get to camp the NM's/HNM's way before someone with a slower speed after server maint. Thats so unfair lets nerf it.
Thats such wonderful logic. Lets all petition to SE about it! Life's unfair get use to it.....
less bs about rmt thieves, more cute pics of silenka *_*
Comparing it in terms of adverse effects to others is ignorant, as the main reason for collecting shinies is to be better in comparison to others. You don't spend 2m on a pcc because the 3 accuracy makes a noticable difference in your gameplay or how you perform, you spend it because it makes you look better.. be it through checks, parsed damage, or just compared to perfect in your own head. If everyone else was given ra/ex of every item they want free, it'd adversely effect your gameplay because you'd look bad in comparison.. and RMT is like a lesser version of that. When you look at it from this perspective, you can't only consider direct implications of the activity on other people, but also need to take into account how much the person doing it stands to gain. Do you think a new player would even consider spending 100s of hours of their life on a relic weapon if 50% of the current population had them?
Also, seriously, Silenka is yummy.
Most people who buy/sell accounts dont do it to keep them. Take Kendrah1 (EGS Staff member) for example. His adds are all over this site as well as killing ifrit and other FFXI sites. If the admins didnt like RMT or had a problem with it they wouldnt allow the adds on their sites. Now on to my point. Not only does Kendrah1 make thousands of dollars off of buying / reselling accounts but its a business for him. Not only did he probably profit off of your account you sold. But he probably bought a new car with it too :] RMT are stupid? Not likely. (well some but we dont like to talk about those ones). As for "their losses" I hardly consider "profiting" off of your account a "loss" more like a "gain" to me. :] (Hypothetically speaking of course, I have no idea who you even sold your stuff to or what its general stats were so I cant really say weather or not anyone profited off of yours specifically but you get my point).
1. I didn't direct the "Seen the light" comment to you. I mentioned it because it illustrates how individuals easily consider an entity "evil" until they themselves take part in said activity. At that point, many Windower users turn into idiots thinking that what they're doing is not advantageous and not illegal. It's not about good or bad, it's about idiots thinking they're not gaining an advantage.
2. No where did I deny that SE shouldn't have designed macros better. However, that doesn't mean Windower and the macros associated with it provide an unfair advantage that is illegal.
3. Do a majority of people use the official Windower? Aside from the lighting issues, I wonder why not?
If you read earlier, I specifically mentioned (In conjunction with someone else's post) that AP Radar is specifically the kinds of programs I'm referring to when I say Windower. On that note, I already mentioned how Windower provides players with Social Capital.AP-radar has nothing to do with windower and site removed it because, dun dun duh, it gave a major advantage to gameplay. Try again though. The windower team specifically are against using programs and plug-ins that give an unfair advantage (fair being subjective but still they do a decent job.) Still waiting for a reason that the windower is so overpowered that it does something that you couldn't do without it. You're not denying that PS2/360 players can't solo everything a windower user can so you don't really have a leg to stand on.
Also, just because the Windower team doesn't recognize it, it doesn't mean it's suddenly off the table:APRadar3 - Removed? - Windower
Hagun ENM dat swaps - Windower
I *AM* denying that there is no difference between a player with Windower/Programs and someone who plays without these features in terms of solo. I've given you two programs (And to be honest, Windower is my phrase for every program listed, not simply Windower it's that makes you view websites) to show for this (Distance program and AP Radar). Hell, this ENM even shows the advantage of using .DATS (Which is useful beyond this ENM even). It's a *very* short sighted argument you're making to suggest that Windower players do not have an advantage over PS2 players.
You speak as if you know my logic, but then write something completely out of sync with it. My logic considers the following:Again by the ToS using the windower is cheating but does it adversely affect others gameplay? Only to such a minor amount that the person who's playing without it would never notice if they weren't told about it. By your logic people with 2 accounts that play one on the computer and one on another machine would be a worse impact because they'd even have a better chance of getting into a LS or duoing NMs/ENMs/Etc. Is having 2 accounts against the ToS? It might be but arguing saying that it's hurting your gameplay experience is ridiculous. What is far more annoying is the amount of morons who are shit players wrecking my experience. Maybe we should ban people if they accidentally wipe their exp parties because you know that's negatively affecting me. Yes it's not against the ToS but by your logic that's why you consider the windower "bad" and advantageous.
1. Is it against the ToS?
2. Does it provide an advantage?
3. Does that advantage ruin the game in some form for others?
Using the same example, for every group that would have trioed it (RDM duoing cannot win this reliably even though I gave you think to put it in your advantage), but instead solos it, you've increased the introduction of items from that ENM three-fold. Moreover, when one of these players is lucky, their profit increases by 300%. PS2 players have to settle for 100% (One third of what the soloer makes) of what the PC player makes. Again, unfair advantage. This isn't limited to ENMs either. Using distance programs or superior macros to solo NMs means less use of social or fiscal capital. It can even mean *gained* capital if you can sell that item (R/EX or not).
Now lets look at your examples:
Dual Boxing:
1. I don't know if it's against the ToS.
2. Damn right it's advantageous.
3. Whether it ruins the game depends on how you use that Dual-box.
Banning people because they wipe your XP PT? What the fuck are you reading sir? I never made a damn line about needing to ban Windower players. I could care less if SE bothers to fucking ban RMT players. The *only* comment I made (Which you're taking the liberty of skewing the hell out of) is:
1. RMT, Botting, and Windower Programs are against the ToS
2. RMT,Botting, and Windower provide an advantage
3. This advantage can ruin the game for some
That is it. Nothing more, nothing less.
I'll even do you one better and use the logic:
1. Is it against the ToS? Not if unintentionally.
2. Is is providing an advantage? No.
3. Does it ruin the game for some? Yes.
If *any* of these points prove to be false, then it doesn't lie within the same category (Whatever category we're talking about) using my logic. Guess what? One and two are false. Therefore, not the same.
It does ruin the game for some players. My Hagun example demonstrates that perfectly. I won't lie; it's annoying to search for people to do stuff like that ENM only to get replies about how it's reliably soloable if you can use Windower programs. It is annoying that some shitty RDM takes forever fighting an NM because he wants to sell the R/EX item (Note: In this case it's *because* of Windower that he is able to solo/sell the item. I don't care if he wants to solo it without the program).There's a certain point when you have to ask yourself "is this stopping me from enjoying the game." For example botting specifically makes it much more difficult for me to get a NM that's a legitimate complaint. Saying "I can't get into a LS because I suck ass compared to the guy using spellcast" just means your a shitty player.
Judging by your last comment, I see that you're unclear what I mean by gaining social capital through programs, so I'll give you an example:
Kaeko himself stated that he would be *unable* to solo Bhaflau Remnants without Windower programs. What would have happened if he were a nobody to begin with? Post the strategy; get a few checks; and suddenly he's *gained* social capital. This means he's *more likely* to be invited to an LS/Activity if he desires than someone without said social capital. This even extends as far as the lolHP% bar. Would you take someone with the ability use this feature over someone who doesn't provided they have the same skill/gear for an event can take advantage of said feature? A rational person would.
Yes, because FFXIcyclopedia is clearly against the ToS. I swear, you don't read a damn thing beyond that which you find offensive.
Clearly I'm out to satisfy my ego trip because the three times I mentioned that I'm not here to crusade against Windower players, but rather to show that people bitching about RMT for ruining the game can also be bitched at since they too are ruining the game, demonstrates that purpose.The "unfair" advantage is just an excuse people use to pretend their better than people who use windower. Also build their ego up a bit more even if they use it themselves.
Actually I look into a lot of Solo/Duo/Trio/One PT strategies for tough NMs/Events. Hence, why I can clearly see that there is an advantage to using Windower over players that don't use Windower. Try again?You seem to know a lot about these "3rd party" programs Yugi for not using them. I mean I coulda sworn people who didnt use windower knew nothing about what it did. Must be that you in fact looked into using it at one point and did some studying.
Again, your ignorance spawns from your lack of reading. No where did I say that we should take action against RMT/Botters/Windower players. I only drew lineage between these entities and now people come bitching and crying because they want to feel just in trashing RMT. Moreover, I doubt that different download speeds is against the ToS. So once again, read what you respond to.Since SE upgraded their servers we can now download above the cap of 56k in-game game play internet speed. (yes when you log in it gets capped). How about we go back to nerfing it to 7 hour download times b/c its unfair to others who have a slower internet speed. I mean the people with faster internet get to play more than the people who still use dial up. Heck they even get to camp the NM's/HNM's way before someone with a slower speed after server maint. Thats so unfair lets nerf it.
Reading is also fundamental. Being a woman is no excuse to act as clueless as a rock. Also, my name is Yugl.Thats such wonderful logic. Lets all petition to SE about it! Life's unfair get use to it.....
and ^ that ladies and gents is a wall of text I didn't even bother to read. :] Who cares? Not me, moving on!
Oh and to everyone who helped out. Thanks a lot I think we got all the info we need on this user to prevent him from ever selling on our site again. Even if he did use another computer.
But you might want to keep this thread around for SaG and maybe reference in the future to come.
lolalla... o wait...
Wow Yugl you're being ridiculous. Dat swapping has absolutely 0 to do with the windower and can be done on any PC. I'm pretty sure with a PC and the right know you could swap Dats on a PS2.
Also just because something is on the windower forums does not mean they are endorsing it and saying go ahead try this cool exploit out. The front page is where their official projects are. Again the reason that most people use the windower is that it makes their life a bit easier.
The problem with you is you're making mountains out of molehills. There are so many things that can provide a marginal advantage over playing solely on PS2 with no other assistance (many of which aren't against the ToS.) Again though you're not providing any solid evidence that the windower is negatively affecting anyone's gameplay. I have never ever seen a LS application that asks "do you use the windower and do you have these plug ins?" Sure I've seen a lot of kings LSs that think it's a plus if you bot but no where has a character Brd, Whm, Rdm, Cor been rejected because of the lack of spellcast or because they soloed an ENM. The sole reason I gave the example of bad players ruining my experience is that the only reason you can come up in how the windower impacts you negatively is less impacting than that.
Anyways this argument is going in circles you believe that the windower provides a huge advantage that can negatively impact the game for others. I respectfully disagree and as like most arguments on the internet this was a waste of time.
Point out where I mentioned Dats = Windower. I pointed out the Dats trick as an example for people here who were wondering why I would criticize dat changes.
It doesn't matter whether a special group of people endorse it or not. It's still there and it's still a program in conjunction with Windower and functions as one of those "Shady" programs I mentioned earlier.Also just because something is on the windower forums does not mean they are endorsing it and saying go ahead try this cool exploit out. The front page is where their official projects are. Again the reason that most people use the windower is that it makes their life a bit easier.
Reading deficit? I specifically said I'm not interested in advantages that aren't against the TOS, so why do you even bother bring this up? Sounds like you're grasping for straws here.The problem with you is you're making mountains out of molehills. There are so many things that can provide a marginal advantage over playing solely on PS2 with no other assistance (many of which aren't against the ToS.)
Yeah, you don't understand the meaning of social capital still, so I'll fix your mistake, and be done with you on this topic. Sometimes if you don't get it, you won't get it.Again though you're not providing any solid evidence that the windower is negatively affecting anyone's gameplay. I have never ever seen a LS application that asks "do you use the windower and do you have these plug ins?" Sure I've seen a lot of kings LSs that think it's a plus if you bot but no where has a character Brd, Whm, Rdm, Cor been rejected because of the lack of spellcast or because they soloed an ENM. The sole reason I gave the example of bad players ruining my experience is that the only reason you can come up in how the windower impacts you negatively is less impacting than that.
It's not that the LSs require you to use these programs. It's that having them puts you in a better position than others. It's also that some of these programs allow you to do tougher events with less people, meaning that what Windower owners earn is much greater than what PS2 players will earn. It also means an artificial increase in supply that hurts PS2 players the most since they have to take part in events with more people (Thus, the profits divided).
You say there's no *big* impact on the game, but at the same time cannot tell me the impact of someone restoring a SAM with R/EX gear and a Hagun.
I'll say this once again, and then I won't bother because it's clear that no one here is capable of having a conversation where someone making a negative comment about windower isn't suddenly a crusader. I did not comment on the degree to which Windower impacts other players. I merely stated that it *does* ruin the game for some players. Yes, other entities can ruin the game too, but that's where the first and second conditions kick in: are these other entities against the ToS and do they provide an advantage? RMT and Botting answer positively to these questions just fine. Thus, why I stated RMT = Botting = Windower on these conditions.Anyways this argument is going in circles you believe that the windower provides a huge advantage that can negatively impact the game for others. I respectfully disagree and as like most arguments on the internet this was a waste of time.
Well considering what this thread here was actually originally about. I'd like to point out that I was in a smn burn in Korroloka today. Deemos was preventing us from getting our levels and we threw out 6 GM calls at once. He has since from about 6 hours ago not been seen on game as a result of the GM calls. I'm kind of hoping we got him banned .....yall have a good day and ill say something if i see him again.
I can sorta see where Yugl is comming from, some actions alone won't give you an unfair advantage, it's how you use them.
.DAT Swapping - I don't see much or an issue with switching races armor. I mean after all Subligars on men should be a crime itself. However there are some tricks you COULD use to give you an unfair advantage to others. I know it's old and fixed but anyone remember the "Erase/Rename Dater model" trick HNM shells used in DA Back in the day?
Windower - The windower itself violates the ToS since it is a 3rd party tool, but if you use the windower only and no plug ins how are you exactly hurting anyone? Some of them may be minor but some are questionable.
RMT - Lol these bastards should have no say. I look down on anyone who RMTs or supports RMT in any shape or form. Orson nailed it on the head about being borderline illegal. Sucks a loophole made the lawsuit a bust.
Yugl stfu please lol...