Starting a Relic - Gungnir: Questions

[Dathus]

So, after playing for so long I've finally pushed myself to fill the dream of wanting a Gungnir. Before I get too into the currency purchasing, some stuff on my mind.

What big purchases should I be doing before I get into it?
Current TP:http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=95449
Got gil aside for the Blitz Ring, short line for Homam feet and Love Torque, and working on Tyger pop atm for Aurum body

Current WS: - FFXIAH.com
Need more Sky farm for Heca hands/feet, currently farming sea/doing ZNMs, and my Salvage group is now kinda non-existant.

Anyone who's had a Gungnir, have you also had a chance to play with a V.Fork, or anyone in your LS who's extensively used one? Debating on either just keeping a V.Fork if/when I get the ability to lot one from Odin, or work towards Gungnir and not 100% sure how one holds up to the other.

Also, does the Defense Down overwrite the Angon Defense Down, or is it a no effect?

All I can think of at almost 7AM.

[Thorny]

Speed belt, and situationally toreador's(i realize you mentioned blitz).. buy a black tathlum when you can and sell it when you're nearly finished to complete your relic.

[Pandum]

the defense down effect overwrites, and will overwrite itself quite often

[Shinryuu]

Need 1.26 Store TP for a true 6-hit, but you'll be using a 4-hit WS quite often. The hard thing to figure out is how to configure your Store TP if you can't TP in Aurum cuirass due to hitrate issues. You're going to have 21 Store TP at all times. Your best bet is to augment a Store TP/ACC ACP body and count on at least 2 hits landing.

If you want to be even more mathier, you can make different TP paths depending on jumps being up. I won't go there.

That, however, is the only hard part about a Gungnir DRG. Keep hitrate vs. haste options open depending on situation: have both blitz and toreador, both ace's and turban. Dusk +1 and speed belt are upgrades, of course. Usually, you have enough hitrate to go for full haste: either the mobs are weak and you have enough hitrate anyway, or the mobs are of such a high level you're eating pizza+1 and you'll end up with sufficient hitrate to STILL use haste stuff.

Regarding WS: keep in mind hitrate is better than STR. Cap hitrate first, then more STR. On merit level mobs, either go overboard on DEX to cap dDEX or don't bother with DEX at all. Sacrificing a lot of mods for going to dDEX 0 to dDEX 20 is stupid, for instance.

[Argettio]

Need 1.26 Store TP for a true 6-hit, but you'll be using a 4-hit WS quite often. The hard thing to figure out is how to configure your Store TP if you can't TP in Aurum cuirass due to hitrate issues. You're going to have 21 Store TP at all times. Your best bet is to augment a Store TP/ACC ACP body and count on at least 2 hits landing.

Rose strap, that's 25sTP and he only needs to land 2 hits of his WS to make a 6hit.

Then he can continue with Homam body/Zahak's combination.

[Burne]

With gungnir I would tp in are's body probably.
I can see that being a good upgrade.
If you can't get one try askar body.

And yes find yourself another piece of Store TP so you can have a 6-hit build.
I would suggest askar body, or rose strap if you use are's body.

Besides that having aces helm is good if you need some more acc, for merit pt and lower lvl stuff you shouldn't need anyway but it's a nice item to have.

GL on your relic.

[Dathus]

I'm camping KA for the Velocious so Speed belt is of non-interest to me. Black Tathlum honestly doesn't seem worth it(9m for the 4ACC/ATK and 1 DEX) vs the Tiphia imo.

Not keeping the Homam/Zahak's, gonna be doing Aurum/Zahak's combo. I'd assume I'd use Homam still for certain HNMs and possibly Mamool merit mobs, or where would I be using it?

Toreadors: Would I get about as good of use out of Iota due to the 2hand fun?

I've got my mind on the 117 DEX set-up for Colibri already, and just requires again sky to put out, and maybe Odin as well.

ACP body is already dedicated to RDM atm and will be change to COR, but is it really worth it to do ACC + sTP if I'm getting Aurum?

Don't have an Ares's Curiass, and from what I'd heard on parses Aurum/Zahak's can keep pace with Ares's so I didn't really look towards it.

Have an Ace's, just didn't put it down for my TP set since it was more of a full haste build.

[Thorny]

Black Tathlum honestly doesn't seem worth it(9m for the 4ACC/ATK and 1 DEX) vs the Tiphia imo.

124.8m in shells with a 36m refund
79.3m in bronze with no refund
9.6m in bynes with no refund

177.7m for gungnir
/ 9 =19.7, may as well be 20

In direct proportion, if you don't feel black tathlum to be worth the gil, you're implying gungnir gives more of a bonus than 40 attack, 40 accuracy, and 20 dex..

From the perspective of a standard player, there is plenty of reason not to buy a tathlum. If you're seriously considering a relic, then not so much.. you can sell it for the last few jades anyway as I stated earlier.

[Argettio]

Toreadors: Would I get about as good of use out of Iota due to the 2hand fun?

Iota is at best 5 accuracy, but can be 4 depending on your DEX before hand.

So it doesn't really compare to Toeradors at all.

[byte]

124.8m in shells with a 36m refund
79.3m in bronze with no refund
9.6m in bynes with no refund

177.7m for gungnir
/ 9 =19.7, may as well be 20

In direct proportion, if you don't feel black tathlum to be worth the gil, you're implying gungnir gives more of a bonus than 40 attack, 40 accuracy, and 20 dex..

From the perspective of a standard player, there is plenty of reason not to buy a tathlum. If you're seriously considering a relic, then not so much.. you can sell it for the last few jades anyway as I stated earlier.

I agree. If you think Black Tathlum costs too much, then you probably shouldn't be considering a relic.

Also, what's up with the attention whoring "I'm starting a relic" thread? Couldn't you just have asked these in random question thread? I hate it when people think they're so special for starting a relic when.. probably 20 times more people have started one than actually finished (and finishing one doesn't warrant a thread on BG advanced either).

[Virg]

Maybe I can get our Gungnir DRG Realest to get back to you and answer all your questions.
He´s really good at FFXI math aswell and a good person. I´ll tell him to either post here or just PM you if you still need more information.

[Shinryuu]

Rose strap, that's 25sTP and he only needs to land 2 hits of his WS to make a 6hit.

Then he can continue with Homam body/Zahak's combination.

2% DA 5 STR 5 DEX vs. 5 ACC here, going to go ahead and say ACP combo still wins. Rose Strap is an excellent suggestion if you don't want to waste the ACP body, though. I actually forgot the thing existed.

By the way, Iota ring is either 5 or 6 ACC, not 4 or 5.

[Starr]

I too would most commonly use Ares body with Gungnir if I had it.

[Demosthenes11]

how would ares body beat out askar?

[Argettio]

2% DA 5 STR 5 DEX vs. 5 ACC here, going to go ahead and say ACP combo still wins. Rose Strap is an excellent suggestion if you don't want to waste the ACP body, though. I actually forgot the thing existed.

True ACP body would do better melee DoT during TP phase.

But he would be using Zahak's for WS, which means you are comparing:
5 STR, 5 DEX, 3% crit rate vs 10 acc and 4 sTP

By the way, Iota ring is either 5 or 6 ACC, not 4 or 5.

Fair point, that's what I get for typing in a hurry.

[Shinryuu]

Ares? No. Askar beats Aurum if Aurum's DEX does nothing (3 STR vs. 2% DA is easy). You have to land more hits of your WS I think (meaning it might not be an option when using Wheeling Thrust or so). However, Ares means you have to use Rose Strap. To see Ares vs. the other 3 options:

2% DA 8 DEX, having to land 1 WS hit only vs. 9 attack 4 STR (Aurum will trump all other options when close (92%) to hitrate cap)
4% DA vs. 12 attack 7 STR (Askar will likely always beat Ares and will beat the rest in ACC-capped situations)
15 ACC vs. 12 STR 24 attack (Homam beats the rest when you are low on hitrate)

Ares is always the latter. In different situations, different options will win, but they will likely always win over Ares. Keep in mind DA and ACC influence TP damage and WS frequency, while STR and attack only influence TP damage. All damage Ares adds has to be multiplied by TP/WS ratio, which in DRG's case is in any case never above 50%.

Adding ACP body (vs. Ares again):

10 ACC 5 DEX 2% DA vs. 7 STR 24 attack

The ACP body is the best all-round body (and probably always beats Homam), Aurum is necessary when using Wheeling Thrust and can be better than Askar depending on hitrate and dDEX. Askar's your best offensive option if you're using DB, you don't have to worry about hitrate, and decent dDEX is out of the question. Askar pretty much always beats Ares. I'm not talking about soloing at all here, and Jump macroes are irrelevant because during TP either option can use any other option when Jumping.

And Argettio, he can still WS in Zahak's, I think. It might shift to having to land 3/4 hits though (don't want to check, lazy, homework), but then again if you don't have decent WS hitrate you need to get more WS ACC either way.

[Argettio]

With /SAM + Rajas + Butal and Rose (25sTP) you only need to land 2 hits (26sTP = True 6hit for 492 weapon)

Well it all comes down to what you are fighting:
Askar and Ares have zero accuracy
Zahak's has ~5 ACC
Aurum has ~6 ACC
ACP has 13-14
Homam has 15

So it all comes down to hit rate.

Rose opens up more options (non-sTP bodies); whether these options are better or not is going to be situational.

But to follow the commonly held view around here; as a relic holder he should have most (if not all of them) and he able to make the decision on which to use based on what he is doing.

[Shinryuu]

I mean if you TP in ACP and WS in Zahak's: is it still 2 hits or does it shift towards 3?

[urat]

Gear aside, I'd recommend before you eve start the whole relic quest saving up a whole stack of your needed 100ccs for the 10Kcc

If you can get that far then you're ready to start doing the quest and handing in the CCs. If you decide you cant afford the relic while working on the 10K cc first, you can simply resell them back.

Try and resell that dynamis sword though... Doesn't quite work as well =P

[Argettio]

I mean if you TP in ACP and WS in Zahak's: is it still 2 hits or does it shift towards 3?

Oh I see.

If you have 25sTP during TP and 21 in WS. You still only need 2 hits to land.


13.3*1.25=16.6
16.6*5=83

13.3*1.21=16

83+16=99

So 1 additional hi and you are sorted.