View Poll Results: Where's lebron going?

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  • Cleveland

    6 22.22%
  • Miami

    7 25.93%
  • New York

    6 22.22%
  • Chicago

    6 22.22%
  • Other

    2 7.41%
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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrW View Post
    http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Page...k-knicks-2.jpg

    This is going to be a loooooooooooong year :/
    kryptonate and david M.F. LEE is all we need. best black white duo since malone/stockton

  2. #42
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    ....so I turned on the TV this morning and saw a rap video on MTV with 3-4 rap bums going on and on about Lebron and I find out hes releasing a movie about himself too now? Really? I mean, MJ did have a pretty cocky retirement speech, but you're all still of the mind that Lebron isn't an egomaniac? I'm starting to worry that if Lebron were to die it'd beat the JFK and Princess Di funerals put together.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sepukku View Post
    ....so I turned on the TV this morning and saw a rap video on MTV with 3-4 rap bums going on and on about Lebron and I find out hes releasing a movie about himself too now? Really? I mean, MJ did have a pretty cocky retirement speech, but you're all still of the mind that Lebron isn't an egomaniac? I'm starting to worry that if Lebron were to die it'd beat the JFK and Princess Di funerals put together.
    funny because the movie is a documentary showcasing how much his highschool teammates made him what he is today.

    but jumping to conclusions is cool tho

  4. #44
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    Couldn't tell from the commercial ^^

    All it was is a crappy rap tune with Lebron dunking 20-30 different times and hanging on the rim longer than neccesary, along with 2-3 clips of him dramatically looking upcourt while waiting on defense for them to bring the ball up. Didn't really see any teammates.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deejay View Post
    lol. Silly post is silly. VC is one of the most complete SG's in the game. The magic couldn't beat the lakers last year because they didn't have any 3 pt shooting, or anyone that could feed the rock to dwight under the basket. VC provides the magic with both of those things, and gives them a true #1 scoring threat which will take a lot of pressure off of dwight.
    Wow okay, I will grant you that this might have been relevant 5 years ago. Vince Carter is going to turn 33, and hasn't done a goddamn thing of relevance in years. I appreciate that you used to enjoy watching him dunk on people, but the guy has never won anything, anywhere. Further, he has a reputation for quitting on teams and being a pain in the ass to deal with, not to mention the fact that he doesn't even pretend to play defense. With the talent that Orlando has, they need complementary pieces. What they got in VC is a mess. He'll make highlight reels, and they will win some regular season games, but he'll also settle for 20 foot jump shots with the game on the line in the playoffs, and be an absolute liability on the defensive end. He's the anti-Artest.

    Don't take my word on the Artest v VC pickups, though. Bodog has Orlando at 8:1 to win it all, and the Lakers at a staggering 2:1. In the east, they have Cleveland (10:3) and Boston (9:2) ahead of the Magic. I'm on the side of the people who get paid to know who will win.

  6. #46

    Quote Originally Posted by Sepukku View Post
    I mean, MJ did have a pretty cocky retirement speech
    No, he didn't. After I read ESPN et al overexaggerate on it, I watched it later. It was an excellent speech, put a period on a night of great speeches by Robinson, Stockton, and Stringer(and um...Sloan...looked good? He most certainly isn't a public speaker, but it's all good).

    Quote Originally Posted by Absolutely Virtue View Post
    [Hating on Vince Carter snippet]

    Don't take my word on the Artest v VC pickups, though. Bodog has Orlando at 8:1 to win it all, and the Lakers at a staggering 2:1. In the east, they have Cleveland (10:3) and Boston (9:2) ahead of the Magic. I'm on the side of the people who get paid to know who will win.
    1) Now talk about how great Turkoglu is, and how sorely he'll be missed. At worst, they made a sidegrade, and it was cheaper in the long haul. Vince only has a few more years of mediocrity or better(I'ma hope for better, that's another frat of mine), Turkoglu's going to sucker another team into a big, undeserved contract after this one.

    2) Yep, let's all base our NBA analysis on a betting site. Tell me what Bill Walton says next.
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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absolutely Virtue View Post
    Wow okay, I will grant you that this might have been relevant 5 years ago. Vince Carter is going to turn 33, and hasn't done a goddamn thing of relevance in years.
    Yes, because the 31 year old Hedo Turkoglu is only beginning to hit his prime

    ...


    Also, you can't blame a guy for being irrelevant if he's playing for shitty franchises in Toronto and New Jersey. That's like saying Pau Gasol only became a good player when he reached LA.

    Again,

    ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Absolutely Virtue View Post
    I appreciate that you used to enjoy watching him dunk on people, but the guy has never won anything, anywhere. Further, he has a reputation for quitting on teams and being a pain in the ass to deal with, not to mention the fact that he doesn't even pretend to play defense.
    Again, Pau Gasol never won anything, anywhere... until he went to the Lakers. Kevin Garnett never won anything, anywhere... until he went to Boston. Arguments like these are fucking moot in today's NBA, where championship teams are usually made in the offseason, not the post season.

    Quote Originally Posted by Absolutely Virtue View Post
    With the talent that Orlando has, they need complementary pieces. What they got in VC is a mess. He'll make highlight reels, and they will win some regular season games, but he'll also settle for 20 foot jump shots with the game on the line in the playoffs, and be an absolute liability on the defensive end. He's the anti-Artest.
    Let me break things down for you. The Magic's biggest downfall was their lack of reliable perimeter shooting after teams would collapse on Dwight Howard in the post. The Lakers literally threw 2-3 players on Dwight every time he was within 10 feet of the basket. They practically DARED the Magic to beat them with the 3, and they couldn't do anything about it but clank open shot after open shot.


    NBA basketball is a game of ebbs and flows. The Magic's 2nd biggest weakness was their inability to silence crowds and teams that started to put together 10-0 runs on them. I cannot stress this enough, but the Magic are THE streakiest team in the NBA. They were notorious for giving up the most 20 point leads in the playoffs last year. With Vince Carter in the mix, they have "that guy" who can carry them offensively for quarters at a time if need be.

    No one on the Magic can create their own shot, which is why you saw Turkoglu get so much free reign in their offense last year. He got the ball damn near however he wanted, in the post, at point, after screens, in the pick and roll, you name it. And even with all that freedom, he put up average numbers at best. Even when you compare him to the WHOAMG 32 YEAR OLD Vince carter, you get this:

    Vince Carter
    21 PPG 43.7 FG% 38.5 3PT% 5.1 REB 4.7 AST 2.1 TO 1.0 STL .8 BLK

    to

    Hedo Turkoglu
    16.8 PPG 41.3 FG% 35.1 3PT% 5.3 REB 4.9 AST 2.7 TO .8 STL .3 BLK

    So basically, the Magic are giving up nothing in rebounds and assists, and gaining a player that's a significantly better scorer, who shoots at a way higher percentage, turns the ball over less, and plays better defense. I bolded the last part because I honestly couldn't believe you brought defense into the discussion when comparing Hedo to anyone.

    He's the worst 6-10 defender to ever play the game. When a guy 5 inches shorter than you(and is known as a below average defender) averages more blocks, more steals, and the same amount of rebounds, something is wrong.... terribly terribly wrong.

    Sorry sir, but yerrong on all fronts.

  8. #48
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    Wait just so I get this straight, Vince Carter was on shitty teams in Jersey? Jason Kidd is a hall of famer and Richard Jefferson is supposed to put the Spurs over the top, but yet somehow that supporting cast is the same as Gasol had in Memphis. Okay, got it.

    I'm not arguing with you about the merits of Hedo vs VC. Carter is, without question, a better athlete and basketball player, including on the defensive end. But simply assembling a team full of good players doesn't guarantee a championship. The Magic LOST in the Finals, so it stands to reason that they would need to upgrade. I'm arguing they might have got a better baller, but their team will suffer because of it. Let's ignore letting Battie and Courtney Lee go, and signing Matt Barnes (which I like) and Jason Williams (lol) and focus on why Carter doesn't make this team better:

    You're right, the Magic need perimeter shooting to take the pressure off Dwight Howard. Theoretically Rashard Lewis is supposed to do this, but we're trying to be realistic. So they dump the ball to Howard, who has no post game to speak of. The double team comes from the weak side. Howard kicks the ball out, they skip around the horn to isolate Carter on the wing to get what they hope is a one on one matchup. The question then becomes, "What will Carter do?"

    Back in the day, he would have taken the ball to the basket. Yet since '05-'06 his FTA per game look like this: 601, 576, 429, 410. He's an 80% career FT shooter, and those are free points. But he doesn't take them anymore, and instead opts for long jumpers and threes. By comparison, over the same period Kobe Bryant (who is about 1.5 years younger than VC) went to the line 819, 768, 742, and 564 times.

    VC could turn out to be just what the doctor ordered. There was a time when he was engaged, and looked to create his own shot, and worked hard on the offensive end. But I see a career in decline, and I'm just not sold he makes them better. You can insult me if it makes you feel better, but nearly every analysis you'll read will say his acquisition is far from the home run you're making it out to be.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuePsiXI View Post

    2) Yep, let's all base our NBA analysis on a betting site. Tell me what Bill Walton says next.
    |
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    I don't want to speculate about what you do for a living. But the folks in Vegas spend every single day of their lives researching sports to make those betting lines. They read every analysis, consult every source. They have to be right most of the time, because if they're not, their clients will lose literally billions of dollars. They are, of course, occasionally wrong. That's why people bet.

    But to suggest they're uniformed is comical. This is their fucking job. Bill Walton gets paid to be a clown, they get paid to be right.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absolutely Virtue View Post
    Wait just so I get this straight, Vince Carter was on shitty teams in Jersey? Jason Kidd is a hall of famer and Richard Jefferson is supposed to put the Spurs over the top, but yet somehow that supporting cast is the same as Gasol had in Memphis. Okay, got it.
    Richard Jefferson is supposed to put the Spurs over the top, but only as the 4th-5th option. he's an over-celebrated role player. besides, those nets teams never played defense and their best low post players couldn't even start on the knicks. again, I still think you're grasping with that argument.


    Quote Originally Posted by Absolutely Virtue View Post
    You're right, the Magic need perimeter shooting to take the pressure off Dwight Howard. Theoretically Rashard Lewis is supposed to do this, but we're trying to be realistic. So they dump the ball to Howard, who has no post game to speak of. The double team comes from the weak side. Howard kicks the ball out, they skip around the horn to isolate Carter on the wing to get what they hope is a one on one matchup. The question then becomes, "What will Carter do?"

    Back in the day, he would have taken the ball to the basket. Yet since '05-'06 his FTA per game look like this: 601, 576, 429, 410. He's an 80% career FT shooter, and those are free points. But he doesn't take them anymore, and instead opts for long jumpers and threes. By comparison, over the same period Kobe Bryant (who is about 1.5 years younger than VC) went to the line 819, 768, 742, and 564 times.

    VC could turn out to be just what the doctor ordered. There was a time when he was engaged, and looked to create his own shot, and worked hard on the offensive end. But I see a career in decline, and I'm just not sold he makes them better. You can insult me if it makes you feel better, but nearly every analysis you'll read will say his acquisition is far from the home run you're making it out to be.

    VC post knee reconstruction will never get the same amount of trips to the line, making it hard for me to argue with you on that subject. However, I don't necesarrily see that as a bad thing, since it just means that opposing teams will either:

    A) Not double dwight howard in the post and allow him to overpower smaller defenders.
    B) Double dwight, and let Vince Carter and Rashard Lewis (when he feels like it) rain 3's down all night long.

    You can bash VC for his shot selection all you want, but he is still tops in the league as far as efficiency is concerned. He's matured into an above average perimeter shooter, and is exactly what the magic need.

    So I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree until the playoffs roll around. However, I'm glad that you could back up all of your points with actual knowledge of the game and reasoning. So kudos for that.

  11. #51
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    Yeah I think we just fundamentally disagree on the type of player VC is (or still is). I think VC of, say, 5 years ago would make Magic phenomenal. But that swingman role seems to get hit the hardest by age and accumulated injuries, and I think that's where he's at these days.

    I will say this though- this is a real shot for him to prove a lot of people wrong. If he plays hard and within the system he's got a chance to make a lot of people (including me) shut up fast. A hungry and rejuvenated VC could be a killer, especially if he adapts his game to blend in. Definitely will be interesting to watch.

  12. #52
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    I think the threat of Vince will be the Magic's biggest asset. VC CAN knock down the three with some consistency where as Hedo just stood there like a tree. Vince has more slash to the basket capabilities. Much less now after his injuries to be honest but defenses will have to play at home on him. Maybe Redick can get some open jumpers this season because the guy can shoot his ass off.

  13. #53
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    At some point you run out of basketballs, though. VC is going to take a lot of shots- guys like him need to in order to get into the flow (he took 18 last night, in the pre-season!). I fucking HATE JJ because he played at Duke, but I've got a grudging respect for his game. I'd like to see him succeed, but I wonder if he gets lost in the shuffle now.

    It would be cool if he could carve out a career as a kind of Steve Kerr/Dell Curry type, but it's so hard for shooters to adjust to only getting a few attempts per game.

    PS- I'm dying to get my hands on whatever steroids or HGH he has been on since college. Jesus.

  14. #54
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    Anyone doing Yahoo Fantasy NBA?

  15. #55
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    I would actually be down for that. I was thinking about playing in some random public league, just to force me to follow someone other than the 2010 NBA Champion Washington Wizards.

  16. #56

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimmauk View Post
    Anyone doing Yahoo Fantasy NBA?
    Would love to do it again this year. Last year was pretty fun! Who was the commish?

  17. #57
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    Los Angeles Clippers' Blake Griffin has broken kneecap, out weeks - ESPN

    Griffin apparently broke his kneecap during the Clippers' final exhibition game against New Orleans last Friday, perhaps after a dunk that left the power forward wincing in pain. The team initially said Griffin only had a sore left knee, making him questionable for the opener, before revealing the break.
    Bill Simmons is right, that team needs some American Indian voodoo curse breaker or some shit

  18. #58
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    LOL I just talked to my friend about this shit yesterday. The curse, not the injury. He said Lakers and Clips gonna be in first round this year. I said, nah Griffin will get injured or get hit by a bus or something.

    After the gym picked up my phone, and there it was on espn mobile XD

    DAMN check this years championship blings out....

  19. #59

    woooooooooooooh gooo blazers!!! >_>

  20. #60
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    I'm so glad Basketball is starting! The first game tonight is gunna be good.

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