Metatron Torment Aftermath

[Tsuko_Asura]

I've played with a couple Annihilators and don't see how it is amazing, I could only really see it shining if you were doing Odin/DI/Tyger/Khim with either poor tanks or small man.

Hitting the enmity cap doesn't mean you have a shitty tank, it means you have a DD who's doing their job. I really don't feel like looking up the exact values, but you'd be able to perform at least eight Coronach/Namas Arrow for the same enmity as a single Slugshot/Sidewinder.

[Kaylia]

The next best Gaxe offers 0% physical damage reduction and 0% magic damage reduction.

The next best equippable damage reduction is 20% physical, or 10% physical 10% magical.

Bravura is better than two I.R. lances, AND has some of the best raw DD potential in the game... that is kind of a big deal if abused properly, which I would hope Sath will do.

It won't be up full time. It should in xp party, but many events/situation involve downtime where it won't be possible. Meditate will help partially for this, but it's still not a pure 20% dmg.

[Max™]

Any time you're WSing and think you'll be taking damage... which generally involves... well, pwning face since war has no other way to gain CE.

It'll probably be up.

[tsaroth816]

Don't forget that Provoke from a WAR main 50+ generates more enmity than from /WAR.

I wish this was true.

While that seems ok, NIN gets a better Utsusemi, SAM gets a better Seigan+Hasso, etc, so I'd rather WAR gets a better Berserk...it's only fair.

Thank you Sehrahin for your Bravura tests :D very interesting stuff

[Yugl]

I kinda disagree here. Blinktanking is still useful every now and then, but the game and playerbase has progressed to the point where melee are able to use DD subs instead of relying on /NIN for everything. There's a balance between damage output and damage mitigation so your mage's can keep you cured/healthy/buffed.

I'd say a good WAR probably uses /SAM majority of the time in their endgame activities. From Salvage and merit parties, to Einherjar and SCNMs. /nin is always going to have it's uses, but it's a smaller% now than ever before.

Having the Damage Mitigation from Relic GAX can be a huge help, but tbh I'm sure there's plenty of times when Raging Rush/King's Justice is going to be the better choice due to damage output. I honestly dunno how it would be used most effectively~

My reference of blink includes Seigan, so even the use of sub SAM will reduce the benefit from the aftermath. The main point to see is that even with this new found knowledge, it's going to be tough to make applications of this for three reasons:

1. The difficulty of obtaining the weapon.
2. Pre-existing strategies that tend to nullify rather than mitigate partial damage.
3. The nature of obtaining the aftermath (Anything that you want nuking you from a distance won't be of use unless you WS nearby mobs).

Edit: Put simply, answer this: With this new information, what will [Name], who owns a Bravura, do differently?

[Kaylia]

Any time you're WSing and think you'll be taking damage... which generally involves... well, pwning face since war has no other way to gain CE.

It'll probably be up.

Training mobs to zone, downtime between mobs in salvage/nyzul are the situation that come to mind.

For melee zerg and xp, it shouldnt be an issue to keep it up all the time.

[Argettio]

Edit: Put simply, answer this: With this new information, what will [Name], who owns a Bravura, do differently?

They will do what they always used to do, but now when they pull hate they will hit MT and survive a little longer.

They won't survive longer than before we knew it is 20% DT, but we now know it is a worth while amount of damage mitigation and should be using MT every time they pull hate (or think they are about to).

[Neoex]

I cannot tell you how many times MT has kept me alive in Einherjar against slimes, while the elf next to me died from fluid toss or w/e that mass aoe they do is

[SassiAsura]

My reference of blink includes Seigan, so even the use of sub SAM will reduce the benefit from the aftermath. [...]

It would compliment it, add to it. Not exactly reduce. But I guess what you're saying is that it would often take priority over the -damage taken from the aftermath.

The benefits to third eye and shadows are pretty good though so I don't think people will feel shortchanged or anything.

[Starr]

Hitting the enmity cap doesn't mean you have a shitty tank, it means you have a DD who's doing their job. I really don't feel like looking up the exact values, but you'd be able to perform at least eight Coronach/Namas Arrow for the same enmity as a single Slugshot/Sidewinder.

I still don't know how this makes Annihilator amazing, from parsing against two (on Tyger, DI and Odin) and seeing who took hate I don't see how it's amazing or worth 100M(?) in comparison to like a GHorn for example.

[Neoex]

I still don't know how this makes Annihilator amazing, from parsing against two (on Tyger, DI and Odin) and seeing who took hate I don't see how it's amazing or worth 100M(?) in comparison to like a GHorn for example.

stop derail starr

[Shinryuu]

I know a good 5-hit RNG/SAM with E-bow can gain TP in a little over 20 seconds (did the math for lulz someday but forgot if I factored in 95% hitrate cap). Yoichi is only a little slower but then again can cap hitrate more easily due to less sacrifices for Store TP. Now, there's no tank that holds hate against a Sidewinder every 20 seconds. Yoichi's fucking amazing. Namas increases your ranged accuracy too, by the way, so that's even more TP damage.

[Starr]

stop derail starr

What more is there to be said about Bravura's AM tbh?

[Byrthnoth]

How potent is the Evasion down from Bravura?
How potent is the Defense Down from Metatron Torment?
How long does the Defense Down last?
Does Defense Down duration vary with TP, and if so, how?
Does it have an elemental association?
Does it stack with other Defense Down sources? (Dia III, Angon, Acid Bolts, etc.)
Does the Magic Damage Taken -% from the aftermath stack with Shell?
Does the Damage taken -% from the aftermath affect breath damage?
Does Metatron Torment have a pDIF penalty?

[Starr]

Some of those have been answered, some are obvious and some are just pointless.

[Valisk]

We hear you.

[Shinryuu]

How potent is the Evasion down from Bravura?
How potent is the Defense Down from Metatron Torment?
How long does the Defense Down last?
Does Defense Down duration vary with TP, and if so, how?
Does it have an elemental association?
Does it stack with other Defense Down sources? (Dia III, Angon, Acid Bolts, etc.)
Does the Magic Damage Taken -% from the aftermath stack with Shell?
Does the Damage taken -% from the aftermath affect breath damage?
Does Metatron Torment have a pDIF penalty?

- Some say 18%, some dude said 10%, probably needs further testing
- 1:00, sometimes longer due to freakazoidness
- Yes, every 100 TP adds what, 30 seconds?
- I know, Starr needs to shut up so don't whoosh me
- It does, Shell V, Bravura and a little bit more MDT hit cap
- In all seriousness, the pDIF penalty rumours annoy me and that's the sole reason I do this. I honestly don't think the relic weaponskills get a pDIF penalty but none of them can crit, none of 'em has a pDIF boost (that's fairly sure, right?) and all of 'em heavily benefit from 1H-ACC boost. No other popular WS has all three of these properties and therefore attack is the only thing left to boost for relic weaponskills, along w/ some mods (to illustrate: RR needs some DEX too, Gekko requires STR only, and Penta needs ACC).

[Neoex]

What more is there to be said about Bravura's AM tbh?

moot point, as listed there is more testing that can be done, but just because in your mind there is no more information doesnt mean its OK to derail the thread for the hundreds of others who are following it.

Make a new topic, talk about annhilator or yoichi and its game breaking or sustaining capabilities

[Nevex]

Does it have an elemental association?

If you mean def and eva down effects, all status ailments in FFXI are associated with an element. Very solid test subjects are elemental mobs, since they're *always* immune to any status of their same element, as well as those of the element they're strong against.

Eva down = ice and defense down = wind.

Colibris have inherent high wind resistance, therefore acid bolts' def. down effect rarely lands on them, if ever. Bravura's def. down should be no different.

Does it stack with other Defense Down sources? (Dia III, Angon, Acid Bolts, etc.)

Dia and defense down are two different status effects, which means Def down from MT won't stack with acid bolts and Angon but will stack with Dia. Not sure if Bravura works this way, but it's pretty much accepted the fact that the most recent def. down source overwrites the old one (i.e. if you use Angon, then BLU's Frightful Roar then the latter's -12% def overwrites Angon's 25%).

[Byrthnoth]

Well, I don't think any of the questions I asked had been thoroughly tested. Shell was assumed to stack because -PDT gear stacked, but it wasn't explicitly tested. I'd be shocked if it didn't.

Of those the "most tested" was the duration of Defense Down, which was apparently 1 minute from "readies Metatron Torment" except when it doesn't land at all on TW Beetles and when it lands for 2 minutes on Dark Ixion.

The most important things to find out are probably:
1) The amount of Evasion down.
2) The amount of Defense down.
3) What causes Defense Down to land (element? level difference?) and how does its duration vary with TP?


Edit:
Yeah, probable elements in order of probability are Wind (Armor Break, Acid Bolts, etc), Light (Dia, Light type WS), or Lightning (Full Break) in my opinion. I don't doubt that the added effect is elemental, I just don't know which. After those three, I guess I'd guess Water.