Metatron Torment Aftermath

[Nevex]

Yeah, probable elements in order of probability are Wind (Armor Break, Acid Bolts, etc), Light (Dia, Light type WS), or Lightning (Full Break) in my opinion. I don't doubt that the added effect is elemental, I just don't know which. After those three, I guess I'd guess Water.

Quoting myself just in case you missed

Eva down = ice and defense down = wind.

There is a pretty strict logic in the game about stats, elements and status effects which makes me 99% sure evasion down is ice based. Anyway it's very easy to test on fire/ice elementals... if you see the added effect never procs then it's definitely ice.

If it's not that then I must say I'd be surprised, though it would be really interesting.

[Byrthnoth]

Armor Break, Acid Bolts, and Dia all do Defense Down. Sorry, I wasn't really thinking about the Evasion Down effect at that point, but that deserves a test too.

[Shinryuu]

How would you test it, simply spam it on ice elementals in sky?

[Byrthnoth]

Yeah, typically elementals of the same or opposing element. Keep in mind that you have to use two types of elementals or you've only narrowed it down to two elements because both the same elemental as the effect and the strong elemental to the effect will be immune to it. For instance, you can't Stun a Lightning Elemental or an Earth Elemental.

Example:
Fire elemental is immune to Evasion Down effect, the effect is Fire or Ice.
Ice elemental is also immune to Evasion Down effect, the effect is Ice.
Ice elemental is susceptible to Evasion Down effect, the effect is Fire.

[Yugl]

They will do what they always used to do, but now when they pull hate they will hit MT and survive a little longer.

They won't survive longer than before we knew it is 20% DT, but we now know it is a worth while amount of damage mitigation and should be using MT every time they pull hate (or think they are about to).

That's pretty much the conclusion I came to after I posted that (A few hours later actually). It's a subjective argument in itself. Will I do more damage by saving my healer MP to keep people up? Will it even impact whether the healer can fulfill his role? If no to either of those, then am I missing out on damage by substituting other WSs for this relic WS (Not sure about this since I haven't looked at its stats)?

Edit: Angon testing came from Ballista I believe. Even though DMG is gimped, EVAs and DEF reduction items should work there.

[Thunder]

Couple questions,

Can MT's defense down be overwritten with another MT?(don't see it in the thread or OP)
And.. can it be tested if MT's defense down(if it lands) would affect that MT? My idea was someone with a bit more knowledge of damage formulas for ranged damage could dissect some acid bolt tests. Is that possible?

[Xanthe]

Acid bolts overwrite acid bolts and Angon overwrites Angon, so it would follow that one Metatron Torment will overwrite another. Additional effects proc after the accompanying hit and I believe the same is true of additional effects with weapon skills. It could easily be tested with any of the break line of weapon skills.

[RobertLangdon]

you need to use Metatron Torment having 2 ice crystals in your inventory to have 100% defense down to land.

[Neoex]

you need to use Metatron Torment having 2 ice crystals in your inventory to have 100% defense down to land.

LOL BAAAAN HAMMAH COMMETH, nice 10th post.

[BerenTebogo]

So bumping for a little bit of info here:

Don't extensive testing done but first few looks seem to show that Breath damage is NOT affected by the MT aftermath.

No aftermath:
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...104_004640.jpg

With aftermath:
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...104_004328.jpg

MNK with me took 400 damage per breath also. Nothing totally conclusive but signs point to

Me and Kirschy will be heading out sometime this week to get a better understanding of DEF-% and EVA-%

[Kipling]

Lol, so that's where Vespre ran off to. :3 And Quitita too!

[BerenTebogo]

Testing DEF- effect now. Will update this post with info as it comes:

Preliminary testing shows that the DEF is not 100% on any mob. Earth based was a false lead. This is annoying.

Killed about 20 mobs without any indication DEF- has proc'd on any of them.

No proc on:
4 Mouriche
3 Rabbits
10 Robber Crab
1 Death Cap
2 Steelshells

Multiple WS on each once a baseline DEF was established.



***

EVA- testing:
Evasion Down effect on melee swings is approximately -30 EVA based on preliminary check testing against robber crabs and steelshells.


Duration is apparently variable
Durations: 33 (resist?), 47, 47, 48, 48, 49, 51 seconds

If EVA- proc's over another EVA- swing earlier the timer resets on overwrite.

The vast majority of EVA- was 47-49 second duration.

[BerenTebogo]

EVA testing done.

DEF I need help on from other Bravura owners.

[Xanthe]

DEF-% should be wind-based, not earth-based. So ineffective on wind and ice-based enemies.

[BerenTebogo]

Was ineffective against earth water and everything

[Xanthe]

Sounds like a personal problem. Have you consulted a physician?

I think that most WS added effects aren't 100% regardless of level/element. I'd say find a larger sample size of specific mobs. Until then you're probably just a victim of the RNG.

[Damane]

Was ineffective against earth water and everything

strange Metatron WS Def Down overwrites Wivre DEF+ move, its pritty noticable. maybe the DEF down only works as a "debuff" to Def+ moves?

[Suiram]

Two quick things. First, regarding the Breath Damage thing. I would imagine that the breath damage cap is calculated prior to any straight damage reduction of the type that metatron torment gives, but it would be worth verifying if it hasn't been already, using a piece of "breath damage taken -%" armor. (I mean here, if the "real" breath damage is 800, capped at 400, and you have -20% BDT, would it be 800 > 400 > 318 final damage, or 800 > 637 > 400 final damage. Again, I imagine it's the first--in which case you're correct that MT aftermath doesn't work for breath--but it's worth making sure.)

The second thing is about the DEF down. I'm assuming you've geared attack to the cutoff point of neutral > low/high defense and then /checking after the WS is used? Are you saying that in all of the mobs you've used, it hasn't once changed the /check? I would suggest, if that's the case, perhaps it's not actually a def-down debuff, but rather a damage reduction (kind of the opposite of the aftermath bonus for the player) except that that one guy went to ballista and it lowered his friend's DEF there. Although maybe it works one way on mobs and another way in ballista?

[Callisto]

I wouldn't think so personally, typically Ballista calculations can be different, but the overall workings of the effects are the same, and it being a straight Defense Down would be consistent with previous Great Axe weaponskills.

[Suiram]

I wouldn't think so personally, typically Ballista calculations can be different, but the overall workings of the effects are the same, and it being a straight Defense Down would be consistent with previous Great Axe weaponskills.

I agree except that they can do whatever they want to Ballista if they decide that it'd be imbalanced to have it the regular way, and it seems like whatever it is it's not a straight Defense Down like the other WSs, since it doesn't change /check (presumably) yet there's a noticeable effect on wivres as the above poster reported.

Again, I'm not saying I think it works that way or even that I think it's more likely than anything else, was just throwing it out there as an idea.