World Series of Poker 09 Final Table

[Olo401]

We've known for a few weeks, thanks to the spoiler commercials that Full Tilt aired, that Phil Ivey had made it to this year's final table. But unless you've dug into the WSOP website or follow poker closely you probably didn't know until last night who the other players are or the chip positioning for Saturday's final table.

1) Darvin Moon (a) - 58.93 mil
2) Eric Buchman (p) - 34.8 mil
3) Steven Begleiter (a) - 29.885 mil
4) Jeff Shulman (p) - 19.58 mil
5) Joseph Cada (p) - 13.215 mil
6) Kevin Schaffel (a) - 12.39 mil
7) Phil Ivey (p) - 9.765 mil
8) Antoine Saout (a) - 9.5 mil
9) James Akenhead (p) - 6.8 mil

Despite having a severe chip disadvantage, Ivey is still pulling 7:2 odds to win, while our other well-known pro Shulman is at 4:1. Both of them have the skill to beat the field, but they'll both need to pick up some big early pots to mount a proper challenge to the chipleaders.

Moon is currently at 2:1 given his stack, but if you've been watching the weekly progress he's constantly been pulling great hands. We'll have to see how he manages should his luck with the deck run dry.

[Swatt]

shulman's gonna take it.

[Olo401]

Shulman's getting coached by Phil Hellmuth, a plus in my book. Hellmuth's a fantastic player but he lets his emotions and ego rule too much.. he's probably better as a coach for that reason.

I also think Begleiter has a great chance to win despite being an amateur. His background in high-pressure situations and calculating risk (being an exec at Bear Stearns for years, until it went THUD) will serve him well.

[Takedown3]

shulmans a chump

10:1 one of the no name's take it

[Gryffes]

Shulman's getting coached by Phil Hellmuth, a plus in my book. Hellmuth's a fantastic player but he lets his emotions and ego rule too much.. he's probably better as a coach for that reason.

I also think Begleiter has a great chance to win despite being an amateur. His background in high-pressure situations and calculating risk (being an exec at Bear Stearns for years, until it went THUD) will serve him well.

LOL.

I dont even... wow

Being coached by Hellmuth is a huge negative because his game is fundamentally bad his plus point is his player reading ability - which you can't really teach.

It's probably 80% + that the winner is one of the following.

Darvin Moon
Eric Buchman
Steven Begleiter

Phil Ivey is most likely to be first out.

[Olo401]

You're right about his ability to read being bad, but he wouldn't win so much in smaller tourneys is his fundamentals were off. His biggest problem is letting the little things get to him, especially in a large field tournament like this one. Every time you see him he's complaining about someone playing rags in the blinds - when you're in a large tournament where the field is mostly amateurs and online players, you have to expect people to play garbage and not get pissed about it.

Shulman's strengths are that he's a cool cat and he's got friends in high places. Sure he could have gotten someone with better reading ability and a cooler head - like Dan Negreanu. My guess is he didn't need that as much as he needed to nail down the basics against someone like Hellmuth, who may be a live pro but still has major faults like an amateur or online pro would.

[Gryffes]

You're right about his ability to read being bad, but he wouldn't win so much in smaller tourneys is his fundamentals were off.

You misread what I said/meant. His poker fundamentals are terrible, it's his reading ability that is his strong point.

The best coaches would be the technically strong MTT online pros.

[Correction]

I don't think his fundamentals are off at all, he clearly knows hand values, his basic problem is how easy he is to get on tilt. If he has an ace in two hands at the same table and loses, Hellmuth is on his way out because his betting gets reckless. He really only needs to fail a read and get owned once to go full monkey tilt.

[Takedown3]

his fundamentals are certainly not terrible, you don't win 11 bracelets being horribad which having terrible fundamentals implies.

he's one of the best players in the world that are in the spotlight and it's definitely a high point to have him in your corner when it comes to any kind of coaching situation.

his ability to coach has absolutely nothing to do with how he plays tournaments because obviously when he is playing he is a gigantic tit. since he wont be doing the actual playing here his coaching advice will go leaps and bounds

all that being said he still is a complete douche and i would play 26o just to try and beat him with the ultimate rags if i were to ever sit at his table (which will obv never happen)

[thestalkmore]

I'd love to see Ivey take it down, but those chip stacks are going to make it all but impossible.

[Stiker]

I don't think his fundamentals are off at all, he clearly knows hand values, his basic problem is how easy he is to get on tilt. If he has an ace in two hands at the same table and loses, Hellmuth is on his way out because his betting gets reckless. He really only needs to fail a read and get owned once to go full monkey tilt.

This.

Hellmuth is probably one of, if not the, smartest player when it comes to knowing the math and odds behind the game; however, it just takes one or two bad beats to break the math and it's over for him. He takes personal offense to people not consistently playing by the odds when he thinks he has the best hand.

I love watching him go apeshit -- it is the best part of ESPN's coverage. To sit there and watch him break down the entire hand and tell the guy that beat him everything he did wrong while he is stacking Phil's chips into his stack. Then he makes a stupid move, loses another one and it is popcorn time.

As far as whether or not he'd make a good coach -- I have no idea. Depends on whether he can detach himself from his emotional take on the game.

[Stiker]

all that being said he still is a complete douche and i would play 26o just to try and beat him with the ultimate rags if i were to ever sit at his table (which will obv never happen)

I'm almost convinced this is the strategy people use against him now.

Come to think of it, I'd love to see Gus Hansen play at the same table as Helmuth, that guy will play fucking anything.

[Correction]

Love me some Gus

[Takedown3]

gus is probably my fav player outside of my canadian brotherly love for daniel

[Stiker]

Love me some Gus

That is classic Gus and Helmuth all combined into one. I love it.

[volcanicweather]

They had a segment on Ivey on ESPN the other day about him playing some Billionaire straight-up where hands had over a million dollar pot from time to time. Pretty interesting.

Sorry for the noob-ish question, but when does the WSOP final table start?

[Olo401]

The broadcast is next Tuesday the 10th. The actual live event in Vegas is on Saturday.

[volcanicweather]

Thanks Olo.

Also here's the E:60 segment I mentioned in my previous post:

E:60 Four Days With Phil Ivey - ESPN Video - ESPN

[kisada]

hellmuth knows his math and is strong on the technical side. but anyone who's a pro player with lots of experience is strong there anyway. everyone at the top understands hand values. everyone at the top knows the math either inherently or explicitly.

he just happens to be good at taking down weak/large tournament fields. his best skill is abusing amateurs who DO wanna play 26o against him just to see him go crazy. as mentioned above, he hand reads well and he combines that with his banter to manipulate weak opponents.

in the poker community it's rather well known he's not really an elite player like his bracelets suggest him to be. he just happens to be pretty good at certain kinds of tournaments, whereas the rest of his overall game isn't that great.

[Olo401]

hellmuth knows his math and is strong on the technical side. but anyone who's a pro player with lots of experience is strong there anyway. everyone at the top understands hand values. everyone at the top knows the math either inherently or explicitly.

he just happens to be good at taking down weak/large tournament fields. his best skill is abusing amateurs who DO wanna play 26o against him just to see him go crazy. as mentioned above, he hand reads well and he combines that with his banter to manipulate weak opponents.

in the poker community it's rather well known he's not really an elite player like his bracelets suggest him to be. he just happens to be pretty good at certain kinds of tournaments, whereas the rest of his overall game isn't that great.

...which is why he's only good at NL Hold'em and nothing else.

Phil could become a REALLY fantastic player if he retrained himself not to explode. And I'm dead serious about that statement.