Iran, people stand up

[Faris]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8SEnWfZx7Y

Iran police 'clash with protesters'

Police have reportedly clashed with thousands of anti-government protesters in Tehran, as Iranians mark Student Day.

The reformist Rah-e Sabz website reported that at least two demonstrators, both women, were arrested on Monday and that police had shot into the air to disperse crowds.

But the website's claims cannot be verified as journalists have been ordered to stay in their offices.

However, several witnesses said that police fired tear gas at demonstrators in central Tehran.

One witness was quoted by the AFP news agency as saying: "Police fired tear gas at groups of protesters chanting slogans against President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in Vali Asr intersection and Enghelab Street."

Alireza Ronaghi, Al Jazeera's correspondent in Tehran, said mobile phone communications in areas where protests were expected had been jammed.

He said police were stopping pedestrians from getting anywhere near campuses, and described the situation as "escalating".

University surrounded

Ahead of Student Day, several websites had called for demonstrations at universities.

Witnesses at Tehran University said hundreds of riot police and Revolutionary Guard members armed with tear gas, batons and firearms had surrounded the campus.

"There are hundreds of riot police, everywhere around Tehran University and nearby streets," a witness told the Reuters news agency.

Tehran residents said internet access, including to email and websites loyal to the political opposition had been limited.

Student Day marks the killing of three students at an anti-US protest in 1953 under the Shah, who ruled Iran before the Islamic revolution of 1979.

Since the 1990s, the occasion has also served as an opportunity for protests calling for increased social and political freedoms.

Election unrest

Hundreds of thousands of people demonstrated in June in the wake of the re-election of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad as president, claiming that the Iranian authorities had rigged the vote.

Student Day marks the killing of three students at an anti-US protest in 1953 [AFP]
Dozens were killed in clashes with security forces and hundreds more were detained by the authorities.

The Student Day crackdown follows in the wake of the election protests.

Mir Hossein Mousavi, the main rival to Ahmadinejad in the elections, said on his website that the reform movement was still alive despite pressure from the clerical establishment.

"Let's say you suppressed students and silenced them. What will you do with the social realities?" his Kaleme website quoted him as saying, referring to the arrests of students in Tehran and other cities that have taken place in the past few days.

"You [the authorities] do not tolerate the student day rallies. What will you do on the following days?"

The official news agency IRNA on Monday offered a different view, saying that the opposition movement would fail to gather support on Student Day and described it as the "last nail of the coffin" of the protests which followed the disputed June 12 election.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/mi...850229658.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA4I5S6aawc

this crisis was on going, and the people are getting sick and tired of ahmedi's regime.
America, liberate the iranian peoples! its what you do best no?

[Kuya]

ahmedi's regime, lol

[Takedown3]

he's just a puppet, you of all people should know that

[Kuya]

I presume the Guarding Council or some sort of clerical institution picks out a new one. So, chosen like the pope.

[Olo401]

No offense intended, but I give a big no way to the "America, liberate the iranian peoples!" thing. Our government needs to learn not to start wars for profit and plunder, and to stop installing puppet dictators like the Shah or Hamid Karzai.

We'll give you all the support you need to keep things going online & in the media that we're capable of tho. It's not marching with you in the streets, but it's something.

[Dramafinderftw]

I need a Arab sugar daddy, Firas can you help?

[Kuya]

Honestly, if liberating for the express purpose of giving people more freedom is what we're intending for in this thread, then the US should start with Saudi Arabia and Egypt. Incidentally, both Saudi Arabia and Egypt would be very happy if the US toppled the Iranian theocratic regime. Which, of course, has nothing to do with freeing anybody.

[Faris]

I need a Arab sugar daddy, Firas can you help?

fck that, I need an arab sugar daddy.

and excuse me kuya, but Saudi peoples arent crying for help are they now, plus both those mentioned countries' governments are in very good terms with the U.S

[Kuya]

plus both those mentioned countries' governments are in very good terms with the U.S

Not because either one has a better humanitarian record, i can assure you.

but Saudi peoples arent crying for help are they now,

A- The Iranians aren't crying for help either, and the last thing they want is US interference, but of course, this is a generalization.

B-I really hope you're not somehow trying to say that the hereditary monarchy is somehow more democratic than the theocratic oligarchy. Furthermore, if this issue is about religion, Wahabism comes from Saudi Arabia, and as Americans should recall, this is the same school of thought that the people involved in 9/11 were immersed in.

[Scuzzelbutt]

Firas already has a sugar daddy.

Don't worry Obama will send 30,001 troops to help.

[Kuya]

Probably not, Saudi Arabia wants the Iranian regime gone, and the US has the same desire, so even with the oil gone, they still have a common goal.

[Kuya]

Iran is one of the most valuable geostrategic points in the Middle East. By establishing a friendly government in Iran, keeping valuable resources in the Middle East safe becomes easier, furthermore, having some influence in Iran means establishing oil pipelines becomes less of a hassle.

In other words, have a friendly government in Iran and you can:

A- Establish bases in it to facilitate military deployment. Keeping order in the Middle East, Asia, and Eastern Europe becomes more possible.

B- Iran is in a valuable strategic point in regards to oil areas, so bases in Iran means the safety of these resources.

C- Instead of going around Iran, one can establish oil and gas pipelines right through it.

D- The current Iranian regime is hostile to the US and therefore gets in the way of US interests.

E- For the people who are more interested in American supremacy, the fact that Iran was the vassal state that got away is a sort of a minor pet peeve for some.

[Effluo]

13th Imam incoming...

[Correction]

How is power exerted on the people of Iran? Do the police knock on random doors and terrorize the urban population into obedience to the Guild of Calamitous Intent? Is the army made up entirely of people from the poorer parts of the nation, giving them tremendous leverage over what is a much more educated population squirming their way through the university system over there? How do the universities even exist in this climate? There's a lot I really don't get about Iran's population in general, and I wonder how these demonstrations get off the ground when the GoCI keeps smashing them down Tiananmen style.

[Kuya]

I don't know much about Iranian culture either, but these protests have been going on for some time, and they're largely about obtaining some more freedoms. In terms of foreign policy though, the reformists and the conservatives are basically the same.

[Khajit]

You cant destroy a university system unless you want the economy to get poorer,crash, or lose tons of money paying foreign workers who ditch with your money later on in the future. In short education for as many people as possible is what keeps the rich from becoming poor. It's very hard if not impossible to smash an education system without causing total havoc for yourself in the future when the only people left are rednecks who didnt make it to middle school.

[Zoolander]

I think everyone recognizes this is a lot different than most of the other similar situations because the Iranian people are pretty well equipped with the only tool they really need to instigate change: an education.

Im "glad" in a sense to see this happening again because it becomes another blow to the current regime in Iran and once again the Ayatollah's power takes a hit. I love this entire situation because it just goes to show how important education is and hopefully turns out to be a great success story in the middle east. They don't need or want our help at this stage, although the regime is really trying to start a fight with all of this shit about more nuclear plants. Just hope that we can see a power shift without quite so much blood shed...not really sure how likely that is though.

[Khajit]

Why would they WANT the USA's help? The USA sent Saddam Hussein regular, chemical, and biological weapons specifically so that he'd fight a war which killed hundreds of thousands of their fellow people.

[Kuya]

From what you're saying, Kuya, it sounds like the main problem is that they have things we want, making our ideological differences a convenient selling point for aggressive action.

Well yes, that is realpolitik. States are not moral creatures, rather morality is just a tool they use to convince their citizens of the righteousness of their actions.

The problem with Iran is that they make it harder to exert influence in the region because Iran has regional aspirations of its own. Iran's main competitor for regional dominance is Saudi Arabia, and the latter fears that Iran can move Shiite minorities in the Middle East against the respective Sunni/Arab States. Iran also has universal aspirations in regards as making itself the focal point of Shiite religious power, and ultimately, the focal point of Muslim activity. There are more reasons as to why Saudi Arabia and Iran oppose each other, but suffice it to say that in the Middle East, two main actors in terms of competition over influence is Iran and Saudi Arabia, and Iran has more power.

Getting a US friendly government in Iran means no more competition with Iran over influence in the Middle East, and the US primarily wants this influence in order to secure the movement of energy resources.

This never had anything to do with anyone's freedom or what's right or wrong. They are issues, yes, but ultimately they are minor.

[Kuya]

Let me clarify: militarily it's: Iran, Turkey (i'm not sure), Israel, the US.

Iran has a lot of influence in the region, especially now that the US killed Saddam, and now Irak has a Shiite majority government that is friendly with Iran (Saudi Arabia warned the US not to put Saddam out of power; they told the US that it would have been preferable to keep a weak Saddam in order to counter Iran).

Iran also competes with Turkey for influence, but their relations are more cordial. Iran and Saudi Arabia are the ones who are really at it. The irony of the situation, that if you let a regular American visit Saudi Arabia and Iran, they'd think that the good guys are Iran.