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  1. #201
    An exploitable mess of a card game
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haroun View Post
    Secret's Out

    It's easy enough to test for yourself. Cast a few Helix with weather, with and without the appropriate Obi, and count the tics. I've done it myself, it doesn't take more than 15 min to confirm.
    The reason I ask is because a different test suggests otherwise: http://bluegartr.com/forum/showthrea...ration&page=17

    I need something on Kaeko's end to at least balance the scale.

    Edit: Now a question. What exactly do people look for when making a magic TIV set? I know that dINT=10 is where you want to replace INT with Magic ACC, but there are two questions that arise from this:
    - What is a "Generic" INT model to use? I know 120 is for Wyrms, but what is it for mobs between Puddings and Wyrms? Just as how melee have a generic ACC range for normal mobs (420-430ish), there should be one for INT as well.
    - Elemental Skill + Magic ACC v MAB. After reaching dINT=10, how much Skill+Magic ACC is necessary before MAB is viable? For puddings? For higher tier mobs (I know Wyrms is 320, but I'm honestly not looking at fighting those ever)?

  2. #202
    HABS SUCK!!!!!
    Sepukku is my Hero
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    Yoich sam...is there anything I overlooked?

    input /equip Ring1 "Ulthalam's Ring";
    input /equip Head "Walahra Turban";
    input /equip Neck "Peacock Charm";
    input /equip Ear1 "Triumph Earring";
    input /equip Ear2 "Brutal Earring";
    input /equip Body "Askar Korazin";
    //input /equip Body "Haubergeon +1";
    input /equip Hands "Hachiman Kote";
    //input /equip Hands "Dusk Gloves:'
    input /equip Ring2 "Rajas Ring";
    input /equip Back "Amemet Mantle +1";
    input /equip Waist "Swift Belt";
    input /equip Legs "Byakko's Haidate";
    input /equip Feet "Hachiman Sune-Ate";
    //input /equip Feet "Usukane Sune-Ate";
    input /echo TP Gear;


    input /equip Ring1 "Merman's Ring";
    input /equip Head "Maat's Cap";
    input /equip Neck "Hope Torque";
    input /equip Ear1 "Wilhelm's Earring";
    input /equip Ear2 "Altdorf's Earring";
    input /equip Body "Kirin's Osode";
    input /equip Hands "Seiryu's Kote";
    input /equip Ring2 "Rajas Ring";
    input /equip Back "Amemet Mantle +1";
    input /equip Waist "Buccaneer's Belt";
    input /equip Legs "Shura Haidate";
    //input /equip legs "Hachiryu Haidate";
    input /equip Feet "Marine M Boots";
    input /echo WS Gear;


    the //input equip lines are gear I should aim to upgrade to.

  3. #203
    I'm more gentle than I look.
    Mr. Feathers AKA Mr. Striations
    All hail Lord Yamcha

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    Quote Originally Posted by NynJa View Post
    Yoich sam...is there anything I overlooked?

    input /equip Ring1 "Ulthalam's Ring";
    input /equip Head "Walahra Turban";
    input /equip Neck "Peacock Charm";
    input /equip Ear1 "Triumph Earring";
    input /equip Ear2 "Brutal Earring";
    input /equip Body "Askar Korazin";
    //input /equip Body "Haubergeon +1";
    input /equip Hands "Hachiman Kote";
    //input /equip Hands "Dusk Gloves:'
    input /equip Ring2 "Rajas Ring";
    input /equip Back "Amemet Mantle +1";
    input /equip Waist "Swift Belt";
    input /equip Legs "Byakko's Haidate";
    input /equip Feet "Hachiman Sune-Ate";
    //input /equip Feet "Usukane Sune-Ate";
    input /echo TP Gear;


    input /equip Ring1 "Merman's Ring";
    input /equip Head "Maat's Cap";
    input /equip Neck "Hope Torque";
    input /equip Ear1 "Wilhelm's Earring";
    input /equip Ear2 "Altdorf's Earring";
    input /equip Body "Kirin's Osode";
    input /equip Hands "Seiryu's Kote";
    input /equip Ring2 "Rajas Ring";
    input /equip Back "Amemet Mantle +1";
    input /equip Waist "Buccaneer's Belt";
    input /equip Legs "Shura Haidate";
    //input /equip legs "Hachiryu Haidate";
    input /equip Feet "Marine M Boots";
    input /echo WS Gear;


    the //input equip lines are gear I should aim to upgrade to.
    Tp in triumph earring?

  4. #204
    Fake Numbers
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yugl View Post
    The reason I ask is because a different test suggests otherwise: http://bluegartr.com/forum/showthrea...ration&page=17

    I need something on Kaeko's end to at least balance the scale.
    The conclusions at the end of the post you're referring to, with regards to Elemental Obis increasing the duration of Helix spells, isn't actually supported by the data. Roughly half the mobs tested on died before Helix wore, and the sample size is considerably small as is.

    One thing the data does show for certain though is that Elemental Obis do not force the maximum duration of Helix spells. If you're trying to suggest that the average duration is increased by Obis, that data is inadequate to come to that conclusion, and I wouldn't personally put any stock in it.

  5. #205

    Quote Originally Posted by NynJa View Post
    Yoich sam...is there anything I overlooked?

    input /equip Ring1 "Ulthalam's Ring";
    input /equip Head "Walahra Turban";
    input /equip Neck "Peacock Charm";
    input /equip Ear1 "Triumph Earring";
    input /equip Ear2 "Brutal Earring";
    input /equip Body "Askar Korazin";
    //input /equip Body "Haubergeon +1";
    input /equip Hands "Hachiman Kote";
    //input /equip Hands "Dusk Gloves:'
    input /equip Ring2 "Rajas Ring";
    input /equip Back "Amemet Mantle +1";
    input /equip Waist "Swift Belt";
    input /equip Legs "Byakko's Haidate";
    input /equip Feet "Hachiman Sune-Ate";
    //input /equip Feet "Usukane Sune-Ate";
    input /echo TP Gear;.
    what the fuck

  6. #206
    I'm more gentle than I look.
    Mr. Feathers AKA Mr. Striations
    All hail Lord Yamcha

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorny View Post
    what the fuck
    Didn't read the part about the "//"

    I agree w/ the above post.

  7. #207
    An exploitable mess of a card game
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haroun View Post
    The conclusions at the end of the post you're referring to, with regards to Elemental Obis increasing the duration of Helix spells, isn't actually supported by the data. Roughly half the mobs tested on died before Helix wore, and the sample size is considerably small as is.

    One thing the data does show for certain though is that Elemental Obis do not force the maximum duration of Helix spells. If you're trying to suggest that the average duration is increased by Obis, that data is inadequate to come to that conclusion, and I wouldn't personally put any stock in it.
    I posted that since the following posts place no unresolved objections and it contains the only testing I've seen. If Kaeko can back up his claims, that would save me macro space (PS3 player), but I cannot accept "trust me on this" until something more comes up. Many people have questioned this test, which I admit isn't extensive, yet none have satisfied their burden of rebuttal.

  8. #208
    The Fucking Voice of Actually
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raen Ryong View Post
    I'm pretty sure X's Knife does, otherwise Mandau/X would be a rather meh combination. And hi!
    I guess, though that doesn't really answer the Sneak/Trick issue.

  9. #209
    Absolute Messenger of Promathia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cantih View Post
    I guess, though that doesn't really answer the Sneak/Trick issue.
    im 99.99% Positive X's Knife will increase the damage from Sneak Attack and Trick attack from the main and sub hand.

  10. #210
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    There's nothing to rebut, the data doesn't support that Elemental Obis increase the duration of Helix spells, period. Have you looked at the data or did you skip to the conclusions?

  11. #211

    Quote Originally Posted by Cream Soda View Post
    Didn't read the part about the "//"

    I agree w/ the above post.
    I did read it, but from someone with a yoichi or intending to get one, I'd hope they can afford Fuma Sune-Ate and a Haubergeon NQ to tide them over.. no excuse for the triumph earring ever. Ulthalam's is bad but I suppose it's acceptable =/

  12. #212
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    To make my point a bit clearer, not counting the mobs that died before Helix wore, the data in that post showed Helix with Obi lasting an average of 8 tics and Helix without Obi lasting an average of 7 tics. With a sample size of 32 tests, that difference is irrelevant.

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by NynJa View Post
    Yoich sam...is there anything I overlooked?

    input /equip Ring1 "Ulthalam's Ring";
    input /equip Head "Walahra Turban";
    input /equip Neck "Peacock Charm";
    input /equip Ear1 "Triumph Earring";
    input /equip Ear2 "Brutal Earring";
    input /equip Body "Askar Korazin";
    //input /equip Body "Haubergeon +1";
    input /equip Hands "Hachiman Kote";
    //input /equip Hands "Dusk Gloves:'
    input /equip Ring2 "Rajas Ring";
    input /equip Back "Amemet Mantle +1";
    input /equip Waist "Swift Belt";
    input /equip Legs "Byakko's Haidate";
    input /equip Feet "Hachiman Sune-Ate";
    //input /equip Feet "Usukane Sune-Ate";
    input /echo TP Gear;


    input /equip Ring1 "Merman's Ring";
    input /equip Head "Maat's Cap";
    input /equip Neck "Hope Torque";
    input /equip Ear1 "Wilhelm's Earring";
    input /equip Ear2 "Altdorf's Earring";
    input /equip Body "Kirin's Osode";
    input /equip Hands "Seiryu's Kote";
    input /equip Ring2 "Rajas Ring";
    input /equip Back "Amemet Mantle +1";
    input /equip Waist "Buccaneer's Belt";
    input /equip Legs "Shura Haidate";
    //input /equip legs "Hachiryu Haidate";
    input /equip Feet "Marine M Boots";
    input /echo WS Gear;


    the //input equip lines are gear I should aim to upgrade to.
    So much to say, but without knowing where you are fighting, what food you are eating, and what merits you have, its sorta wasteful to post.

    Adding to what Thorny and Cream....

    Merman's ring on namas (use behemoth +1 or flame), amemet mantle +1 on tp (use cuchu or cerb +1 or foragers). My math says 2 x triumph on Namas beats the set earrings.

  14. #214
    Pens win! Pens Win!!! PENS WIN!!!!!
    Sweaty Dick Punching Enthusiast

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    Sam, Pentra Thrust gear set help.

    Just did my frist Bird party as PLM Sam and was to say the least dissapointed in the return.

    I have 0 PLM Merits, fully merited Overwhelm. I'm not sure if I want to take away my Sword merits to merit PLM, but if I did that would only give me 4 PLM merits, and I'm not willing to drop my others.

    My Avg. Penta was 989.5, was getting Chaos Roll(Level 72 Cor), was /War and tried to make the best use of Overwhelm as I could.

    Gear
    Tomoe/Pole Grip/_/B.Tathlum
    Champions Galea/Ancient Torque/Mermans/Brutal
    Haub+1/O.Kotes/Rajas/Toreadors
    Cuch/Potent/Byakko's/Rutters

    I've been working on Af+1 Hands, still need Temenos though, need 25 to complete Usu Hands, working on getting Virtuoso Belt since AF2 Belt seems like a far cry right now, Usu Feet seem like a far cry as well.

    I have Cerb+1, Shura Legs if they'd be better. Other then that any suggestions that can help would be appreciated. I was also switching between Crab Sushi and Meat Kabobs through the party, no matter what I was using my TP returns were up and down all the time, anywhere from 4% to 24%.

  15. #215
    An exploitable mess of a card game
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haroun View Post
    To make my point a bit clearer, not counting the mobs that died before Helix wore, the data in that post showed Helix with Obi lasting an average of 8 tics and Helix without Obi lasting an average of 7 tics. With a sample size of 32 tests, that difference is irrelevant.
    It's true that there is very little data to make a strong case for Obis. My point, however, was that it's just as bad to make the assumption that it doesn't affect duration. As little data as there is to support the notion that magic ACC affects helix duration, I've yet to come across information to deny this potential. The link you provided only discussed AV and provided nothing towards the issue of duration other than someone asking you to take their word for it. Obviously, they're not unfamiliar with BG, so they're welcome to bring their information here. However, for now, the scale is tilted in favor of obis favoring duration, whether this be correct or incorrect.

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aragon of Odin View Post
    Sam, Pentra Thrust gear set help.

    Just did my frist Bird party as PLM Sam and was to say the least dissapointed in the return.

    I have 0 PLM Merits, fully merited Overwhelm. I'm not sure if I want to take away my Sword merits to merit PLM, but if I did that would only give me 4 PLM merits, and I'm not willing to drop my others.

    My Avg. Penta was 989.5, was getting Chaos Roll(Level 72 Cor), was /War and tried to make the best use of Overwhelm as I could.

    Gear
    Tomoe/Pole Grip/_/B.Tathlum
    Champions Galea/Ancient Torque/Mermans/Brutal
    Haub+1/O.Kotes/Rajas/Toreadors
    Cuch/Potent/Byakko's/Rutters

    I've been working on Af+1 Hands, still need Temenos though, need 25 to complete Usu Hands, working on getting Virtuoso Belt since AF2 Belt seems like a far cry right now, Usu Feet seem like a far cry as well.

    I have Cerb+1, Shura Legs if they'd be better. Other then that any suggestions that can help would be appreciated. I was also switching between Crab Sushi and Meat Kabobs through the party, no matter what I was using my TP returns were up and down all the time, anywhere from 4% to 24%.
    You're overshooting on accuracy with crab sushi, and lacking accuracy with meat.

    Things you can change and stay at acc cap with sushi: Triumph Ring, Cerb Mantle +1, Shadow Gorget all would increase your Penta Damage.

    I personally use Hachiman Sune-Ate instead of Rutters for Penta, simply for the 5 sTP, which helps in keeping your pseudo five-hit(with penta hits connecting).

    Otherwise, I don't think you can cap accuracy on birds with meat, no usukane and no merits.

  17. #217
    HABS SUCK!!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vodou View Post
    Merman's ring on namas (use behemoth +1 or flame), amemet mantle +1 on tp (use cuchu or cerb +1 or foragers). My math says 2 x triumph on Namas beats the set earrings.
    one of my merman's are augmented with Ratk+1, and I've had them for, well, ages, and never bothered upgrading to Behemoths. Churning out a bunch of Behe Ring synths for a WS that probably wont need it is more of a sidegrade, not an upgrade.


    The other part I realized I forgot to mention, considering I thought it was pretty fucking obvious saying Yoich, is that the weapon is Soboro. Adding attack to Soboro will have very minuscule gains. I was also going over my StoreTP right now, and I think I fucked up some calculations. Anyways, finishing relic comes before spending money gearing it up (I'm looking at Haub+1). I've already owned one, and when I got Askar, sold it, as it had no use to me at the time. But untill I get those Usu Ft, Askar Bd is the only slot I can gain STP without sacrificing haste or other useful stats. Other than that, I dont own fumas (Gallant wont put out, would rather get those), and I never needed dusk gloves (THF DRK are my main melee jobs). I'm fully aware that the shit thats proceeded by //input lines aren't the best available.


    [/quote]My math says 2 x triumph on Namas beats the set earrings. [/quote]
    I plan to find out when I finish it. Dynamis isnt the best test spot.

    And I'm not stupid enough to pay 4.6m on a Cuchulain's Mantle, sorry

  18. #218
    Salvage Bans
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    Quote Originally Posted by NynJa View Post
    But untill I get those Usu Ft, Askar Bd is the only slot I can gain STP without sacrificing haste or other useful stats.
    Rose strap, yo.

  19. #219

    Quote Originally Posted by NynJa View Post
    one of my merman's are augmented with Ratk+1, and I've had them for, well, ages, and never bothered upgrading to Behemoths. Churning out a bunch of Behe Ring synths for a WS that probably wont need it is more of a sidegrade, not an upgrade.
    Nothing wrong with merman's, esp with a decent augment. They double for MDB, though behemoths are one of the easier upgrades when you're looking to maximize.


    The other part I realized I forgot to mention, considering I thought it was pretty fucking obvious saying Yoich, is that the weapon is Soboro.
    I assumed it was soboro, which only needs 11 STP + full merits to have a 6hit(in a normal setup, less with yoichi) and can't reasonably get a 5hit. This means Rajas + hachiman kote are the go-to pieces unless you can maintain the accuracy to use askar body. There's no reason for hachiman feet in this setup, and obviously if you use askar body you don't need kote and vice versa. Rose strap or STP+4 Acc+10 Nuevo in addition to ecphoria ring as second TP ring and rajas/brutal are going to be the best options sans usu body(usu feet are often not even worth the haste sacrifice!).

    Other than that, I dont own fumas (Gallant wont put out, would rather get those), and I never needed dusk gloves (THF DRK are my main melee jobs). I'm fully aware that the shit thats proceeded by //input lines aren't the best available.
    Fuma Sune-Ate are less than 200k on most servers. You're upgrading a second relic for christ's sake.

    I plan to find out when I finish it. Dynamis isnt the best test spot.
    loltestingingame

    And I'm not stupid enough to pay 4.6m on a Cuchulain's Mantle, sorry
    Man, and I was starting to think you were intelligent too.. maybe you should take your attitude back to 2007, at least then you were smart for the times.

    I can't wait until you get in an argument with Sath.

  20. #220
    An exploitable mess of a card game
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorny View Post
    loltestingingame
    Didn't you read the title? This a no mathologist thread.

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