Einherjar: To /NIN or to /DMG, that is the question

[Nishida]

Town gear SAM/NIN

And their SJ makes me barf.

Are you one of those people that shows up /WAR or /SAM to Einherjar and get skilled by Fluid Spread? I can't stand people caring so much about their epeen damage that they get themselves killed and use up the mages MP so their ego isn't hurt. :3

If not..disregard this.

[Amastacia]

Are you one of those people that shows up /WAR or /SAM to Einherjar and get skilled by Fluid Spread? I can't stand people caring so much about their epeen damage that they get themselves killed and use up the mages MP so their ego isn't hurt. :3

If not..disregard this.

Get better mages?

In fairness, that's not always a possibility, but it's not like everyone needs to sub NIN for Einherjar because you might get slimes which might use Fluid Spread a few times.

Offensive sub, shockingly, is often less about the epeen than a faster, easier win. You'd be amazed how much easier FFXI is if you are aggressive.

[NynJa]

Get better mages?

In fairness, that's not always a possibility, but it's not like everyone needs to sub NIN for Einherjar because you might get slimes which might use Fluid Spread a few times.

Offensive sub, shockingly, is often less about the epeen than a faster, easier win. You'd be amazed how much easier FFXI is if you are aggressive.

While I agree a good defence is a good offence, if you neglect all defense, you will fail. Certain situations do call for 2h DD to sub nin, those who are too ignorant to realize it are the ones who falter.

Einherjar is probably the most prevalent of all, since you dont know what will happen.

[Zubuis]

Get better mages?

In fairness, that's not always a possibility, but it's not like everyone needs to sub NIN for Einherjar because you might get slimes which might use Fluid Spread a few times.

Offensive sub, shockingly, is often less about the epeen than a faster, easier win. You'd be amazed how much easier FFXI is if you are aggressive.

I somewhat disagree. I agree that FFXI is easier if your an aggressive player. But lets assume you do Einherjar with a 3 party set up of ddx3, brd, whm, (cor or rdm) with a triple brd setup that many linkshells use. Whether those 9 DD are /nin, /sam or /war w/e when will they ever not do enough damage to clear any tier (assuming were talking about good dd)?

Clots/Slimes in Einherjar are pretty rough from my experience. Assuming you have the setup I mentioned in the previous paragraph its highly unlikely that your not going to ever not have enough damage (especially since jellys/clots are T2 predominantly but same applies to T3 really). But if your people are dying because fluid spread is shitty or other various shitty aoe moves that are absorbed by shadows, then you might not clear.

I usually tell my dd to sub w/e they want because I dont think it really matters all that much. But /nin is definately more safer imo. But yeah an offensive sub is faster, but when your good at einherjar, being faster isnt really a factor.

[Secksi]

Spoiler: show

nfc why this got moved here, was in response to mods allowing town gear shots in the gimp threadhttp://www.concurringopinions.com/ar..._clamshell.JPG

[Aksannyi]

Get better mages?

In fairness, that's not always a possibility, but it's not like everyone needs to sub NIN for Einherjar because you might get slimes which might use Fluid Spread a few times.

Offensive sub, shockingly, is often less about the epeen than a faster, easier win. You'd be amazed how much easier FFXI is if you are aggressive.

Barwatera says hi. Shit helps, even with tons of e-peen relic melee.

[Meat]

Stun say "hi, no clot is going to be able to do anything as long as our mages knows how to use me"

[Amastacia]

While I agree a good defence is a good offence, if you neglect all defense, you will fail. Certain situations do call for 2h DD to sub nin, those who are too ignorant to realize it are the ones who falter.

Einherjar is probably the most prevalent of all, since you dont know what will happen.

Just my opinion, natch, but 2h DDs other than SAM should usually be subbing SAM, and only SAMs have regular business subbing WAR.

All provide Seigan + Third Eye for defense if needed. E-peen morons ride Hasso and forget Seigan exists if they take hate and will take hits.

That's not to say there's never a reason to sub NIN, but I really disagree on Einherjar being the most prevalent. You don't know what will happen, but most of the irritating shit can be stunned, and if stuns can't keep pace, shadows likely won't either. Some of the stuff that can't be stunned ignores shadows in any case. Third Eye stays up through many AoEs that wipe shadows and can provide roughly equivalent damage mitigation in the long run.

I somewhat disagree. I agree that FFXI is easier if your an aggressive player. But lets assume you do Einherjar with a 3 party set up of ddx3, brd, whm, (cor or rdm) with a triple brd setup that many linkshells use. Whether those 9 DD are /nin, /sam or /war w/e when will they ever not do enough damage to clear any tier (assuming were talking about good dd)?

Clots/Slimes in Einherjar are pretty rough from my experience. Assuming you have the setup I mentioned in the previous paragraph its highly unlikely that your not going to ever not have enough damage (especially since jellys/clots are T2 predominantly but same applies to T3 really). But if your people are dying because fluid spread is shitty or other various shitty aoe moves that are absorbed by shadows, then you might not clear.

I usually tell my dd to sub w/e they want because I dont think it really matters all that much. But /nin is definately more safer imo. But yeah an offensive sub is faster, but when your good at einherjar, being faster isnt really a factor.

Going end to start here...

Faster is always a factor. I can go do something else sooner if it takes less time to win. If that something else can be done faster, I have more time for something else after *that*. And so on.

In my experience, slimes are much more dependent on ability to stun and kill quickly. If you kill too slow, you get overwhelmed. If lots of Fluid Spreads go unstunned, it doesn't matter worth two squirts of shit what you subbed. That slim margin between dominating them and being dominated is really the only time /NIN matters, and there are perhaps other things to focus on fixing first if you regularly find yourself in that position.

And yes, it's not difficult to have enough total damage output to clear any tier regardless of DD subjob, but most of my FFXI experience tells me that defaulting to aggressive play rather than defensive play yields greater overall success.

I'll be the first to admit that last statement carries with it a fairly large caveat... it is dependent on being able to trust that the people around you have a vague clue and are comfortable playing aggressively. It doesn't depend on everyone being the second coming of Jesus (quite easy to work around weak links, actually), just needs a bit more synaptic function than a block of tofu (which I can't say about many people playing FFXI).

[Shin Volcano]

Barwatera says hi. Shit helps, even with tons of e-peen relic melee.

Wait...how does Barwater help on a physical TP move? (it takes shadows) to my understanding, bar spells only work for magical based element attacks.

[Sasamichan]

Wait...how does Barwater help on a physical TP move? (it takes shadows) to my understanding, bar spells only work for magical based element attacks.

I believe fluid toss is a magical attack, so it does make sense to use barwater.

[Zero Serenity]

No Sasami. It's a physical attack.

[NynJa]

Yeah, huge misconception that Fluid Toss/Spread are magic damage, and barwater reduces it.

All provide Seigan + Third Eye for defense if needed. E-peen morons ride Hasso and forget Seigan exists if they take hate and will take hits.

Two faults:
1-Even with Seigan, Third Eye can completely shit it up, and last one shadow.
2-I guess your Third Eye's block the following TP attacks:
Condemnation
Grim Halo
Fluid Spread
Fox Fire
Trembling
Wild Rage
Sepentine Tail
Whirl/Flurry of Rage
Single Target spells (AM/T4)
etc etc
3-If you pull hate off a WS, youre defenceless for a good 1-2 seconds (ability lockdown) while seigan/Third Eye are down.

Citing "/sam or bust" is ignorance to the same level. Much like everything else in this game, shit is situational.

[Despain]

shit is situational.

In case any of you retards arguing missed it.

[jammalamma]

The problem with those WS you listed..I'd probably still get hit with them because the mob melee'd down utsusemi anyway.

But yeah, /NIN is retarded.

Single target spells? I invested in a MDT build for a reason?
Frontal AoE shit like condemnation and foxfire? Why am I getting hit by these anyway unless opening statement?
lolHydra.
The few times you fight weapons they die instantly, even in dynamis. Otherwise you need a new LS to run with.
Why would I /nin to KV or Serket?
You'd have an argument for fluid toss if it weren't spam and /nin doesn't save you from spam if your mages can't stun.

You're not defenseless, it just requires you to not be a complete retard. And whay's this about WS lock? If you know you're about to pull hate with a WS on something that isn't going to die in 10 seconds then you should probably already have Seigan Third Eye buffed.

So pretty much the gyst of your argument is that the people who are afk jacking off while doing shit should sub /nin.

But so what you get hit with an AoE that won't kill you. Mages are invited to the party for a reason. It wasn't so you could go afk to watch reruns of Cosby.

But hey, I'm ready to break somebody's pearl when i see them come shit like SAM/NIN. Only thing that holds me back is I don't feel like dealing with the bawing afterwards.

I remember some guy was bitching I wouldn't go /NIN to Odin and he kept saying how much I was going to die and be an MP sink. I MPKed him and danced on his gimp /NIN body to prove a point.

[Airenn]

God DAMN, man. You just be hatin all up in here.

[Gunitsoldier]

God DAMN, man. You just be hatin all up in here.

Y'all gon' make me act a FOOL up in HERR up in HERR

Sorry, had to.

[Airenn]

Y'all gon' make me act a FOOL up in HERR up in HERR

Sorry, had to.

I never knew how much fun posting on BG was until today, bored at work.

[Kaslo]

Single target spells? I invested in a MDT build for a reason?

orly? I guess WAR's should war tanking gear they invested in in merit parties because they are first voke too huh? I mean they invested in it, they should wear it, fuck the mages that have to keep them alive.

[Despain]

orly? I guess WAR's should war tanking gear they invested in in merit parties because they are first voke too huh? I mean they invested in it, they should wear it, fuck the mages that have to keep them alive.

Trying too hard.

[NynJa]

a bunch of "my shit dont stink"

Are you kidding me? You're basically saying in your world mobs die in 10 seconds, and never get off TP attacks. At that rate, you should be full clearing CoP dynamis with an hour to go. You're ridiculously over exaggerating to the point its laughable.

Secondly, why would you switch to a MDT set for a single target spell? If your stunners are as good as you just claimed them to be, the spell should be stunned, right? Hypocritical statement right there, but lets carry on.

Another hypocritical statement, you first said that Utsu wouldnt matter because the mob would have melee'd your shadows away, then you say that your mobs dont get off TP attacks...right. All the aforementioned attacks are either cone or AoE, meaning your Third Eye is useless. "well I can stand on the side of cone attacks", then your precious Overwhelm is useless

If you know you're about to pull hate with a WS on something that isn't going to die in 10 seconds then you should probably already have Seigan Third Eye buffed.

And without the hasso buff you might not pull hate. Hmm

I remember some guy was bitching I wouldn't go /NIN to Odin and he kept saying how much I was going to die and be an MP sink. I MPKed him and danced on his gimp /NIN body to prove a point.

So you told your mages to curebomb you and let him die, good job. You seemed very proud of it too.


Really your counter arguments are stretching, pretty fucking far too.