BluRay - 25gb wasn't big enough for ya?

[Kaisha]

Not seen anything involving this on the forum, soooo....

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=3977

For those lazy to read the link, essentially, Sony & Panasonic tag-teamed and came up with a new evaluation method for reading data off of a BluRay using existing hardware.

What does it mean for us the consumers? Well, if your hardware supports it (all PS3s will have it via a firmware update eventually), Blu-Rays will have the potential to sport an extra 8.4gb per layer, which means disc sizes of 33.4gb SL, and 66.8gb DL rather than 25gb & 50gb respectively. Sexy is all I can say given this works on existing hardware with an update.


It won't mean much in the gaming world for quite some time given MGS4 is still the only game to get close to the 50gb barrier (31gb of fully compressed data, hence all the installs required), and probably would have been the only game out currently to benefit from this new tech. Only other game that high off the top of my head is FFXIII with 37.6gb space used, but more than half of that is just 1080p FMV video apparently?
(would explain how they were able to get it to fit onto 3 DVD-9s for 360, just rape the quality of the FMVs and you're good to go)

What I'm personally interested in though, is whether or not the new reading method they'll be implementing will be faster or slower than the existing method. I'm assuming slower because I'm cynical, but if I'm wrong on that, this'll be a nice treat given it may help alleviate the fact BluRay players have shit seek times, and may result in faster load times on future games, and those damned fancy-smancy BluRay film menus that half my movies like to spend 15-25 seconds loading.



It may be great for movies (LOTR: Extended in 1080p 1 disc per film in the trilogy plz), particularly if '3-D' versions require the extra space, but for games? With most features being multi-platform these days, they're hardly taking up even half of a single normal bluray disc thanks to the 360.
(am I the only one who's bothered by compressed videos on a PS3 port of a 360 game?)


On the same subject, Blu-Ray 3-D specifications were finalized mid-December, so from the sound of things 2010 will really be the year this 'fad' as many like to call it will be hitting the mainstream hard, more-so with publishers jumping on board for it (Disney and Dreamworks are already confirmed to be working on 3-D editions of their upcoming releases), so it'll be here to stay whether you like it or not.


Incase anyone asks, why do I use the dash in 3-D? Because it's the simplest way I can think of easily differentiating 3d as in cgi graphics, and '3-D' as in visual depth perception. Also, tried my best to keep this the least wall-of-texty as possible.

[Senoska]

Have not heard of HVD, have you? lol25gb..

[Kaisha]

Well aware of HVD, but that's not going to be out for a long while. BluRay is already here to stay for quite a few years, and HVD won't have any real consumer-applicable uses for the longest time, unless we need to own the entirety of Seinfeld in UHDTV on a single disc for some reason.

[Senoska]

You say that now. Wait a bit.

[arus2001]

I'd honestly love more series and such on one disc, but distributors would probably still sell them for stupid outrageous prices.

Anyway, is the HVD thing at all related to the Super HD or whatever my old man was talking to me about one afternoon?

[Senoska]

I'd honestly love more series and such on one disc, but distributors would probably still sell them for stupid outrageous prices.

Anyway, is the HVD thing at all related to the Super HD or whatever my old man was talking to me about one afternoon?

HVD is a disc with theoretical storage amounts of like 10TB..

And yea, it would be used for ultra high def video.

[Correction]

I'm unlikely to replace what is already a growing mix of DVDs and blu-rays with any future tech in my lifetime. By the time HVDs cost 20 bucks I'll be too old to really see a difference in the high resolutions anyway.

Yeah I'll buy whatever media video games are out in by then but really, I'm done switching media formats on my video collection. I was alive during the betamax/laserdisc days.

[Fhqwghads]

BluRay is already here to stay for quite a few years

You sure about that? It may be "here to stay", but the adoption rate and demand for it are horrible from what I understand. I'll speculate that BluRay will never catch on, and that the next form of storage will be the one consumers latch onto. Blame HD-DVD and BluRay for being pig-headed and putting consumers in the middle of their stupid format war. People seem perfectly content with DVD for now.

[Xno Kappa]

You sure about that? It may be "here to stay", but the adoption rate and demand for it are horrible from what I understand. I'll speculate that BluRay will never catch on, and that the next form of storage will be the one consumers latch onto. Blame HD-DVD and BluRay for being pig-headed and putting consumers in the middle of their stupid format war. People seem perfectly content with DVD for now.

From the articles I've read recently, BluRay is very much here to stay with a rise of 67% in unit sales from last year.

http://www.istockanalyst.com/article...icleid/3763713

[SephYuyX]

Tech ->

I was screaming HVD the day BD was announced, and will continue to do so. If you want next gen quality, there is it.

[Xno Kappa]

Wow, this HVD stuff sounds sick. Never heard of it before.

[willriker]

You sure about that? ... People seem perfectly content with DVD for now.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I never had an issue with DVD's. I definately hopped onto the DVD/CD wagon as soon as it came out. It was such a huge upgrade, it was undenieable. You could finaly do things like skip ahead to a diferant chapter. They didnt wear out as easily. You didnt have to fast forward through an entire movie to get to any special features... if there was even anything at the end at all.

As for the tapes > CD's > Ipod... LOL @turning tapes over to play the other side. yeah yeahm, in later years you could just press a button to play the other sides, but still. lol@ that. CD'd gave us the ability to skip foward on the tracks, easily. The last true upgrade, for me was items that freed us from needing to carry anything but the player. Upgrades like the Ipod, are what i would call a significant upgrade from the CD.

These upgrade are huge, and undenieable. The consumer can walk up to the product, and the improvements litteraly slap them in the face.

When you talk about going from 25gb to 33gb of space. I really do not think of this as something the average consumer will take in, digest, and come to the conclusion that it will allow them to do anything that they could not do before. All the average consumer sees is that bigger is better.

This is also the same reason that i think the bluray will not hit it big like the dvd. It looks like a DVD. You gain almost no additional features over the DVD. It certainly is not as big of a diferance in features as freeing yourself from needing to rewind tapes. Suposedly the picture quality is better. But, i do not know many people with televisions nice enough to display the diferance in picture quality.

I just dont see the motivational factor for consumers to swap from DVD to blueray. perhaps if the companies just stop making dvd's, people will be forced to swap. LOL @ that though.

[Xno Kappa]

Only poor people still buy and defend DVD.

[zoobernut]

I am not poor and I agree with what Will said. To the laymen, the average consumer, Blu-Ray isn't a big enough improvement to warrant the switch. All it gives you is improved picture quality but that is not enough, it never was in the past and it won't be now.

Blu-Ray might eventually become popular but it is going to be an uphill battle. What they need to start doing is more $20 bundles like they did for Up that have bluray and DVD in the same box for only $20. Then people will be forced to own bluray discs which will start to open up the market for them.

[willriker]

Yeah, honestly i do not have a ton of cash these days. If it wasnt for the colege loan payments i would be making more dough. Ironicaly, the college loan payments chew up so much of my paycheck, i am still making the same amount of money as i did before college. LOL just cleaner work now.

Back on topic, when i first saw commecials for Blue Ray disks i literaly went >.> They tried to show me the diferance in picture quality, and despite having 20:20 vision i didnt notice much of a diferance at all. It certainly was not worth the 30 dollars per Blue Ray.

Heck i have a PS3, I do not own a single Blue Ray, nor do i have any ambitions of getting a Blue Ray. I started to see Blue Ray's at Blockbuster. I had flash backs of when VHS was over come by DVD. So, i started to look into a player, figuring that if the day comes where most of the rental places were filled with Bluerays, i would be not be inconvenienced. If Blue ray catches on, i have a player. That was definately a factor in the purchase of the PS3. But, they have not been releasing too many blue rays. I cannot even rent many blue rays. Not due to money, but do to lack of availability. Am i ready for the switch, yes. But, in my mind the switch hasnt happened yet. And, i feel that the switch will take a long time to occur.

I would say, LOL only poor people buy/defend DVD's. But, i know that i am not alone in this feeling. Even Redbox does not offer Bluerays. Its the newest form of rental tech. And the ones in my area only offer DVD.

[Isiolia]

I am not poor and I agree with what Will said. To the laymen, the average consumer, Blu-Ray isn't a big enough improvement to warrant the switch. All it gives you is improved picture quality but that is not enough, it never was in the past and it won't be now.

Blu-Ray might eventually become popular but it is going to be an uphill battle. What they need to start doing is more $20 bundles like they did for Up that have bluray and DVD in the same box for only $20. Then people will be forced to own bluray discs which will start to open up the market for them.

Well, one might argue that rich(er) people, or enthusiasts, would be more the demographic that'd have the A/V equipment needed to really appreciate the quality difference between DVD and Blu-Ray.

Partly it depends on the quality of the source material, and how much effort was put into mastering the disc as well.

Still, it's a very valid point that while quality isn't irrelevant, consumers tend to go for convenience first. Lots more people went for MP3s than HDCDs and the like.

IMO, disc media will eventually be phased out in general. Streaming supplemented by durable flash/SSD based movies.
Anything greater than 1080p will really need to wait on higher res screens to become common.


Higher capacity Blu-Ray is all well and good, means they can do more of what the format already offers. I don't see it changing the game though.

[Fhqwghads]

Enthusiasts and rich people aside, I think the next broadly adopted technology for media storage will have to be a huge paradigm shift with regards to storage needs. Possibly something like HD 3D movies that would require incredible amounts of storage to deliver its content. Even then there will have to be some means of converting older media to the new format and releasing just about every existing media title under this new format. Otherwise it's just not going to gain enough momentum to be adopted.

Just my casual observation of what's happening now with BluRay falls under the speculation above. They made the mistake of creating a format war, then when they "won" the war they didn't have enough titles to make consumers interested to the point it would have made BluRay the de-facto standard. If they had a huge library so consumers could order their favorite titles in the new format it would have been a huge step in making DVD obsolete. Hindsight and all that...

To sum up I think the next format has a number of requirements in order to be successful; namely no format wars, vast library that at the very least approaches what's available on DVD, and a motivating factor to steer consumers in its direction, e.g. HD 3D TV or some other compelling and large incremental jump in technology. Fail on any of these properties and it's doomed to mediocrity, becoming obsolete with next to no adoption, or at best growth at a snail's pace.

[arus2001]

It's not like BR wanted to compete with HDVD. Both sides basically fought over rights to various movies, in turn leading to the diminished libraries for both at the start. Regardless, the market is picking up steam, in part due to HDTVs dropping in price, some even purchased on the heels of those who needed a new set when broadcasts went digital. BR players have also gotten cheaper, with it initially being only the PS3 at a "reasonable" price to start, and that was only really reasonable because it doubled as a gaming console, too.

Not really sure how much more innovative portable media can get while staying within the restrictions of current tech. 3D would hint moving toward holographic imaging, but that doesn't exactly mandate a format swap depending on needed data space. Sucks it probably won't happen in my lifetime, but I'd love to see neural interfacing with PCs and such happen. Throw sensory manipulation on top of that and people could feel their movies, be their MMO avatars, or whatever. Then again, it'd probably lead to the downfall of society as we find ourselves more free to indulge in realistic fantasies.

[Jefe]

HVD? Lol...

How long has the DVD been around, what 20 years or so? It is obvious that the Blu Ray will replace it. Right now there's no room for another format for the masses. Hell, they have been a little resistant to switch. Many are jumping the Blu bandwagon thanks to HD tv's dropping in price and most tv content out there is HD. If anything, the HVD may turn out to be like the Beta; mostly used by people in the industry not the common folk.

[zoobernut]

HVD? Lol...

How long has the DVD been around, what 20 years or so? It is obvious that the Blu Ray will replace it. Right now there's no room for another format for the masses. Hell, they have been a little resistant to switch. Many are jumping the Blu bandwagon thanks to HD tv's dropping in price and most tv content out there is HD. If anything, the HVD may turn out to be like the Beta; mostly used by people in the industry not the common folk.

You are just a little bit off on your date. CD's were around since 1982 DVD's were not invented until 1995 and were not commercially available till a little bit longer after that.