What's Better?

[Nightfyre]

Reposted from the last one:

Would Suppa/Diabolos be better than Suppa/Brutal for a COR single-wielding Joyeuse? Assume 85-90% accuracy when using Brutal.

brutal

If I'm mathing right at a glance Diabolos would be a 1.5% hit rate increase while Brutal would be 2.5%~ more swings(less if subbing WAR). I'm not 100% sure but I think the Brutal would still win out.

Nope. This came up a while back with Paladin and I made the same mistake, but Joyeuse and Brutal DA don't stack so...

90% accuracy:

Brutal: ((1.45+(.05*.45))*.9)/(1.45*.9)=1.0155, in reality it's slightly less due to TP overflow. On my way out or I'd check x-hit and give you the exact number, but it's irrelevant anyway.

Diabolos: 0.915/.9=1.0167

Diabolos is the superior earring and will always be the superior earring with Joyeuse provided you're able to take full advantage of the accuracy (93.5% hitrate and lower). If you're /WAR you could probably bump that up to 94% and below but don't quote me on that, gotta run.

[requim]

Wouldn't it be ((1.45+(0.05*0.55))*.9)/(1.45*.9)=1.90% increase?

1.90 > 1.67

Brutal earring has a 2.75% chance to DA since 2.25% of them conflict with Joy. I think you calculated it to be the opposite, and the difference is within half a percent.

Note that if DA from Joy and Brutal stacked then Brutal would give you a 3.45% increase in damage, instead of 1.9%. Also note that Hollow earring at 90% gives you over a 2% increase, making the order go hollow > brutal > diabolos.

What's the TP return from a corsair's weapon skill? Joy gives 6 TP even , 6.3 with Rajas, Brutal doesn't change either values. Going by memory guns give you somewhere around 20 tp returns, so it would take you about 13 attacks to get enough with rajas, 14 without.

[Nightfyre]

Wouldn't it be ((1.45+(0.05*0.55))*.9)/(1.45*.9)=1.90% increase?

Good catch, yes it is. If we assume 50% proc rate instead of 45% on Joyeuse it comes out to 1.67%, which is the same as Diabolos's increase at 90% hitrate. Though the hitrate with Brutal was irrelevant since it's in both the numerator and denominator. So then:

If you believe Joyeuse has a 50% proc rate, use Diabolos's below 90% hitrate (not including Diabolos's) and Brutal above. If you believe it's a 45% proc rate, Brutal will win at and above 79% hitrate.

[Rugazanami]

For COR Quick Draw, the AGI+8 pair of earrings, the MAB+5, MAcc+5 pair of earrings, or Moldavite+Drone earrings?

I'm guessing Moldavite+Novio is best, but I don't have 25m or an LS that does Sea.

[requim]

You can't attack my assumptions when I used your assumptions!

[Shinryuu]

With a 50% proc rate of Joyeuse and no other source of double attack Brutal will be 2.5% more WS frequency and melee damage. Diabolos will be 1.67% more melee damage and WS frequency (at the assumed 90% base). Hollow will be 2.22%.

Suppa > Brutal > Hollow > Diabolos for TP earrings on COR. C'est ca. 80% hitrate is the absolute minimum (change food and gear below that) and Hollow would be 2.5% there, equalling Brutal.

[Pikarya]

Ancient Torque vs. Sea Gorget for Asuran fish.

[Nightfyre]

You can't attack my assumptions when I used your assumptions!

lol. Wasn't attacking them, I personally believe it's really 50% but i was going with the accepted number for the above maths. Should have just used 50%, there would have been no mistake for you to catch

With a 50% proc rate of Joyeuse and no other source of double attack Brutal will be 2.5% more WS frequency and melee damage.

1.525/1.5=1.0166666... ~=1.67% increase.

[Cooleko]

Ancient Torque vs. Sea Gorget for Asuran fish.

Assuming Asuran Fists, I firmly believe its only the first of 8 hits so ancient torque would win over gorget

[Haroun]

For COR Quick Draw, the AGI+8 pair of earrings, the MAB+5, MAcc+5 pair of earrings, or Moldavite+Drone earrings?

I'm guessing Moldavite+Novio is best, but I don't have 25m or an LS that does Sea.

The MAB+5 / MAcc+5 set should have the best results if you don't have access to Novio.

[Cream Soda]

With a 50% proc rate of Joyeuse and no other source of double attack Brutal will be 2.5% more WS frequency and melee damage.

Incorrect. You look at the new total number of attacks vs the old total.

100 attack rounds 50% proc on joy

150 swings


Add 5% da, applies to half of the hits as it usually would, so can count it as +2.5% DA

100 attack rounds, 2.5% DA, 50% proc rate on joy

152.5 swings

152.5/150 = 1.67% increase in total number of swings, not a 2.5% increase

[Shinryuu]

Eh you're right, orz. Frickin' OOT weapons :3

[requim]

Suppa > Brutal > Hollow > Diabolos for TP earrings on COR. C'est ca. 80% hitrate is the absolute minimum (change food and gear below that) and Hollow would be 2.5% there, equalling Brutal.

That is wrong. Order is suppa > hollow > brutal ~ diabolos (depending on acc)

Hit rate is always greater than a 1:1 return. You're multiplying by your accuracy, which is a value below 1. 0.95/.94 > 1% return.

Double attack is awlays less than 1:1 return. You're multiplying expected swings with a value that is greater than 1, 1.02/1.01 < 1% return

This is why diabolos is actually around 1.67 and hollow is like 2.22. Even assuming brutal and joy stacked you got 3.45% increase from +5% DA.

ALL DA GIVES YOU LESS BANG PER BUCK. You're getting +2.75% DA with Brutal and Joy (45% proc rate). You're already gaining free attack rounds from Joy and the more DA you have the smaller the change will actually be, but it will always be less than one.

[Nightfyre]

Maat's Cap or Gnadbhod's Helm for non-CA Cannonball?

[arshesney]

For COR Quick Draw, the AGI+8 pair of earrings, the MAB+5, MAcc+5 pair of earrings, or Moldavite+Drone earrings?

I'm guessing Moldavite+Novio is best, but I don't have 25m or an LS that does Sea.

AGI for Light/Dark Shot, MAB/Macc for ele shots.

edit: actually if you consider 2 AGI = 1 Macc might wanna use that over agi earrings

[Shinryuu]

Hit rate is always greater than a 1:1 return. 1% hit rate will always give you more than 1% increase in expected damage. Double attack is always less than a 1:1 return because it doesn't stack with itself, so 1% DA won't really be 1% increase in damage.

I know all that and I'd like to add that coming from 0% DA 1% DA is 1% damage (more if it's a fulltime thing like a Trait; it adds WS damage too) unless your weapon is OAX like Joy, Ridill, etc. I'd also like to add that the returns from accuracy get a 42.5% cut on SAM and a 23.75% cut on /SAM due to Zanshin (assuming you're within 30-35 ACC from 95% hitrate).

But yeah I completely miss-mathed Joyeuse because I'm tired. Your order is right. Night!

[Bakthi]

What's the TP return from a corsair's weapon skill? Joy gives 6 TP even , 6.3 with Rajas, Brutal doesn't change either values. Going by memory guns give you somewhere around 20 tp returns, so it would take you about 13 attacks to get enough with rajas, 14 without.

Here's what I have, but I might have done something wrong:

TP return with Martial Gun, Steel Bullet, Skadi's Chausses, Rajas Ring: 18.9%

TP per Joyeuse swing with Brutal, Rajas, Cobra Harness, and Skadi's Chausses is 7.2%. It takes me 14 swings to get to 100% TP from 0% (as opposed to 17 swings with no store TP), and 12 swings after a WS. If I lose the Brutal, it's 7.1% per hit and 15 swings from 0 to 100; post-WS remains 12 swings.

(Of course, even if I did the calculations correctly, /DNC ruins it sometimes anyway. But it's not as though I'm wearing worse gear for the sake of Store TP; you could maybe argue for SH+1, but I think the Cobra is a good option.)

[firepixiedarien]

PLD/WAR kiting Food Question:

1. Carbonara

or

2. Tacos!?



Here's what i'm equipping, ** means I dont got that piece yet...


Terra's Staff
**Shark Strap
Iron Ram Sallet
Harmonia's Torque
**Bloodbead Ear
**Pigeon Ear +1
Iron Ram Hauberk
Iron Ram Dastanas
Bomb Queen Ring
Bloodbead Ring
**Gigant Mantle
Trance Belt
Iron Ram Hose
Iron Ram Greaves

Yes, I don't have Sea, so i cant get ethereal ear. Wish I had Crim Legs...

[requim]

I know all that and I'd like to add that coming from 0% DA 1% DA is 1% damage (more if it's a fulltime thing like a Trait; it adds WS damage too) unless your weapon is OAX like Joy, Ridill, etc. I'd also like to add that the returns from accuracy get a 42.5% cut on SAM and a 23.75% cut on /SAM due to Zanshin (assuming you're within 30-35 ACC from 95% hitrate).

That only holds for going from 0=>1% DA

Going from 1.01 (1% DA) to 1.02 DA is a change of 0.9901, which is less than the 1% increase in DA rate. It could potentially be a bit higher since its increasing WS frequency and possibly WS damage, but it's still decreasing returns compared to haste. Once you get up to significantly higher amounts of DA it's obviously decreasing.

[Callisto]

Just figured I'd share:
http://i46.tinypic.com/2i963a.png

also for SCH T4 nukes...Mahatma vs. Yigit bodies for pure damage, assuming MAcc is not a concern?