Member motivation in "Leader gets all" LS

[NynJa]

So, I've been contemplating this for a while, it never made sense to me. I'm not trying to stir shit up, cause drama, but I've questionned my servers LS, Perseverence, and other similar ones on other servers. To exemplify: Dioma has 3 relics, a mythic (all of which were LS funded), a D.Ring, both Odin pieces, Kraken (possibly LS funded as well)...amongst the rest of the LS is the following: 1 Aegis (obtained prior to joining), 1 Gungnir (self-funded). Quick research I can think of Leaders like Minidragon, Wopa, Stanislav, Papy...LS's whos leaders are basically pocketing everything, selling all the drops, and their members get left in the dust. Wheres the driving force to join such a LS, where you're basically being someones slave? Is there something I'm unaware of that makes it worthwhile to join LS's where you wont get your E.Bd because its better sold so the LS leader can get another relic?

[Ksandra]

Stanislav

I can't say for other lses since I don't know them...but for Ex...have you seen the fuckton of gear its members have? They are not left in the dust I can honestly say that, and I'm not even a member.

[enoch]

There have been several threads on this subject, use the search function and you'll find the circular arguments you're looking for and no real answers because there are none.

[Ratatapa]

Nynja tu est sur gilgamesh?

[Kaylia]

I can't say for other lses since I don't know them...but for Ex...have you seen the fuckton of gear its members have? They are not left in the dust I can honestly say that, and I'm not even a member.

"Leader gets all" LS never get that far. The leader will get 1 relic, and the ls will disband after (leader start playing less, or people get jealous/fed up).

Leader + sack get almost everything works much better. Toss some bread crumb occasionally to the rest of the linkshell and people will stay.




[edit]
More or less on topic, but the biggest issue with FFXI's endgame is that at this point, it's hard to keep a linkshell together unless money is flowing, and money won't flow unless you're monopolizing your server NM and forcing people to work on the game like a job.

[Callisto]

Ours is just kinda by default, we try to keep drops spread out but only my stuff keeps dropping, lol. I think our last 4-5 Dynamis runs only my piece has dropped and it's typically stuff that I'm the only one in line for, or I'd pass some crap.

[Yabby]

There members are getting what they want, end of story. The people in the LS's you just gave are getting what they are putting into the shell i'm sure or they (Like you said) wouldn't stay.

[Despain]

iirc people in WopaCompany in Pandemonium were rewarded with pretty hefty paychecks, and a few people got their relics funded through that linkshell. I don't know much about the LS, considering it existed/broke when I was on a break, so everything I know is pretty much hearsay.

Some people don't mind big paychecks, which is probably what a lot of these linkshells offer. That, and there probably aren't other linkshells that are even capable of doing half the shit that linkshell can do.

[Demosthenes11]

So, I've been contemplating this for a while, it never made sense to me. I'm not trying to stir shit up, cause drama, but I've questionned my servers LS, Perseverence, and other similar ones on other servers. To exemplify: Dioma has 3 relics, a mythic (all of which were LS funded), a D.Ring, both Odin pieces, Kraken (possibly LS funded as well)...amongst the rest of the LS is the following: 1 Aegis (obtained prior to joining), 1 Gungnir (self-funded). Quick research I can think of Leaders like Minidragon, Wopa, Stanislav, Papy...LS's whos leaders are basically pocketing everything, selling all the drops, and their members get left in the dust. Wheres the driving force to join such a LS, where you're basically being someones slave? Is there something I'm unaware of that makes it worthwhile to join LS's where you wont get your E.Bd because its better sold so the LS leader can get another relic?

dont talk about shit you dont know lol

at least in the scope of mini and stan and im sure papy, ls rules make getting a relic easy as long as you can front the first 40% or so. these people have set farming ways that net them millions (inb4ige) and use the ls rules to help them as well.

get your head out of your ass, these people dont all take from the top

[Despain]

dont talk about shit you dont know lol

at least in the scope of mini and stan and im sure papy, ls rules make getting a relic easy as long as you can front the first 40% or so. these people have set farming ways that net them millions (inb4ige) and use the ls rules to help them as well.

get your head out of your ass, these people dont all take from the top

Pretty much. Also I don't think Papy has ever ran Apathy (if we're talking about the Papy from Remora).

[Hegarty]

The only answer is that even if they're getting scaps they're still getting more stuff and faster than joining other shells.

[Nevex]

The keyword is: prestige.

If a LS can fund several relics and/or mythics and grants the leader a huge number of rare items, it is almost certain that we're talking about a LS that is successful in doing events and is capable of winning pulls, whether it uses legit methods or not.

There are people who are more than willingly to join such a kind of LS, it's not surprising. Leader's image acts as an applications-magnet in these cases.

While I believe that leaders should be rewarded for their efforts (keeping a LS going is no easy task, you could write books and books about this matter), they also need to limit themselves... the people you mentioned in the OP did surely attract a lot of negative comments, especially on these forums. But if they don't care, well, good for them lol.

Then of course we have those random PLD leader /shout-made LSes that suddenly vanish after leader gets his Aegis... those should be avoided.

[Odin'sLaw]

iirc people in WopaCompany in Pandemonium were rewarded with pretty hefty paychecks, and a few people got their relics funded through that linkshell. I don't know much about the LS, considering it existed/broke when I was on a break, so everything I know is pretty much hearsay.

Some people don't mind big paychecks, which is probably what a lot of these linkshells offer. That, and there probably aren't other linkshells that are even capable of doing half the shit that linkshell can do.

i think the main thing for this is that Wopacompany had so much shit held under there thumb people we're getting pimped out (armour wise) and Wopa was still able to make Relics

[Shinsei]

So, I've been contemplating this for a while, it never made sense to me. I'm not trying to stir shit up, cause drama, but I've questionned my servers LS, Perseverence, and other similar ones on other servers. To exemplify: Dioma has 3 relics, a mythic (all of which were LS funded), a D.Ring, both Odin pieces, Kraken (possibly LS funded as well)...amongst the rest of the LS is the following: 1 Aegis (obtained prior to joining), 1 Gungnir (self-funded). Quick research I can think of Leaders like Minidragon, Wopa, Stanislav, Papy...LS's whos leaders are basically pocketing everything, selling all the drops, and their members get left in the dust. Wheres the driving force to join such a LS, where you're basically being someones slave? Is there something I'm unaware of that makes it worthwhile to join LS's where you wont get your E.Bd because its better sold so the LS leader can get another relic?

Despite my old personal opinions of Minidragon, I believe the story with NiN is probably false. Granted I was not in the LS, just the same server, but I am pretty sure NiN wasn't a "Mini gets all" kind of thing. I don't know the story for every single item drop within that LS, but they did have a wide varierty of geared members and I know they acquired a lot of Salvage pieces(duping or no duping who gives a shit). But one other reason that would make me say Mini did not fall under that category is because if that was the case, he would have used that Cursed Hauberk -1 he had for so long instead of letting another member lot over him.

There's a JP LS on my server where an officer/leader that has E.Body got to lot on another E.Body for HQ over another member. I don't recall Minidragon ever doing something like that, but then again, this is just the outside looking in. Were all his relics legit? Who knows, anything I would say about that would be simply assumptions.

"Leader gets all" LS never get that far. The leader will get 1 relic, and the ls will disband after (leader start playing less, or people get jealous/fed up).

I agree with this. Though I must add, I have warned an old friend of not joining a specific Linkshell because I knew for sure the Leader would dick all the members over and that he is just using them to get his gil+Ebody+whatever items first. The guy's response was "I know, I don't care, long as I get a ridill out of it I don't care what happens to the bank."

That might be the story of some other individuals, perhaps the members don't care themselves and are just hoping they get their 1-2 items they are seeking before the LS breaks. Personally I wouldn't even stay a day in a linkshell like that.

[Despain]

Case and point, people will always hate those who are on top and make up rumors that if they run a linkshell, they must be doing something that's not considered kosher by mainstream players. Its always been like that. You have to take everything with a grain of salt until someone who's actually been in that LS and has actually experienced said accusation comes forward and tells you what really went on in that linkshell.

[Terrestrialrage]

Quick research I can think of Leaders like Minidragon

A gross assumption. For the 8 months or so that I was there, Mini got 2 items from the shell, EBody and Shadow Ring. His relics were not paid for using the bank as when it came time to use the bank it was all, at least appeared to be, there. He sold 2 of his characters to fund two of them and traded WOW gold for the third. How he got the other 1 I don't know, I left before that.

[Diomer]

dont talk about shit you dont know lol

at least in the scope of mini and stan and im sure papy, ls rules make getting a relic easy as long as you can front the first 40% or so. these people have set farming ways that net them millions (inb4ige) and use the ls rules to help them as well.

get your head out of your ass, these people dont all take from the top

Exactly, this guy is smart - if you qualify, we pay for last stage. And by the way Nynja, you missed a horn we partially paid for and that Aegis (assuming you meant Lamech) and Gungnir were all paid for last stage just to prove Demo's point that you really don't know what you're talking about. Also, you might find it interesting that I'm still 1500 points above the next closest person and there's only 12 people above 1000 points while I sit over 7000 after lotting all those drops.

Edit: Oh and I missed this too. Burtgang wasn't LS funded at all - KC was. Aegis only was in the fact that we sold sky drops to pay for hourglass fee after I had finished Ancile and got ~2000 Silvers towards Aegis myself from sponsoring and recycling enough currency to pay for the next.

Moreover, as for the selling drops thing. Our first impulse isn't to sell drops. We've never sold an E. Body, A. Body, Ridill, Hauteclaire, etc. Biggest abjuration we sell is N. Head and everyone has that now and if they don't, depending on the price we will ask if the highest bidder wants to lot or sell it. Usually they want to sell it which may surprise you. We sell SW drops unless members need. We've sold a few BB items when members wanted because buyers are harder to find nowadays on our server and a bunch of Aces when members wanted and now, 99% of those people have what they want except Trial people and even one of them got an Aces 2 days ago. The timing of this post is really ironic though due to what occurred yesterday.

Moar Edits: Thought this might interest you for our LS Bank History for this month, I haven't had a chance to update the last few days but you can see it's pretty clear and those loans are for relics > 4th stage with 5th funded.

January 1st: 14.8M (Ace's Helm [6.5M], Antares Harness, Behemoth Hide x3, Cobalt Ore x3, Ixion Cloak, Ixion Cape)
January 2nd: 24.5M (Ace's Helm [5M], Dyna, Azoth, B. Hide x2, Ixi Cape, Ixi Cloak, Wyrm Horn, Kunwu Ore, Kunwu Iron, Moly Ore)
January 3rd: 32.8M (Fragarach, Ixion Cape, Ixion Cloak, Dragon Heart, Einherjar, Azoth, Wyrm Beard [2M])
January 4th: 35.7M (Dragon Heart, Hermes' Sandals x2, V. Claw x2, M. Cotehardie)
January 5th: 36.9M (Cerb Claw x2, Dynamis, Ixion Cloak)
January 6th: 50.0M (Zahak's Mail, Antares Harness, Ixion Cape, Azoth, Hermes' Sandals, Einherjar, Adamantoise Egg [2M])
January 7th: 51.5M (Adaman Ore x3, Cerb Claws x2, Behe Hide x2)
January 8th: 58.3M (Damascene Cloth, White Tathlum, Hermes' Sandals x2, Fragarach, Wyrm Horn)
January 9th: 61.4M (Behemoth Hide x2, Azoth, Ixion Cloak, Dragon Heart, Guivre's Skull)
January 10th: 70.2M (Ixion Cape, Hermes' Sandals x2, Azoth, Cerb Claw x2, Behemoth Tongue [3.5M])
January 11th: 76.6M (Antares Harness, Behemoth Hide, Ixion Cape, Hermes' Sandals [950K])
January 12th: 83.8M (Dyna, Wyrm Horn x2, Cerb Hide, B. Hide, Antares Harness, D. Blood, Behe Hide, Dragon Heart, Hermes' Sandals x3 [2 for 950K, 1 for 1.1M])
January 13th: 98.0M (Ein, N. Head [5M], Cerb Claw, Hermes' Sandals x4 [950K per], Zahak's Mail [4.3M])
January 14th: 109.6M (Cerb Hide x2, Cerb Claw, Avalon Breastplate, Azoth, Dragon Heart x2, Adaman IngotWyrm Beard [2M], Ixion Cloak x2 [1.2M, 1.15M], Algol [1M])
January 15th: 118.1M (Scin. Ingot, Azoth x2, Oily Trousers, Ixion Cloak, Cerb Claw, Hermes' Sandals x4 [900K each])
January 16th: 124.2M (Dyna, Fragarach, Cobalt Ore, Dragon Heart, Scin. Ingot, Hermes' Sandals x4 [900K each])
January 17th: 137.5M (Cerb Claw x2, Azoth, Ixion Cloak, Scin. Ingot, Ein, Ancient Torque [9M], Cerberus Hide [900K], Hermes' Sandals [900K])
January 18th: 148.6M (Fragarach, Azoth, Ixion Cloak, White Tathlum, Oily Trousers, Aces [1M + Sha'ir Manteel], Adamantoise Egg [2.5M])
January 19th: 166.4M (Cashmere Cloth [3.5M], Cobalt Ore x2 [300K each], Antares Harness, Ixion Cape [1.5M and 1.7M], Ace's Helm [5M], Behemoth Tongue [3M], Dyna)
January 20th: 181.0M (Sha'ir Manteel, Scin. Ingot, Ein, Cerb Hide, Behe Hide x3, V. Claw x2 [Total - 2.3M], Ancient Torque [8M])
January 21st: (Cerb Claw x2 [500K], V. Claw [100K], Hermes' Sandals x7 [800K Each], Hermes' Sandals x2 [850K Each])
January 22nd: (Ancient Torque, 2x D. Cloth, Hermes' Sandals x2 [Total 10.9M])
January 23rd: (Oily Trousers [1M], Cerb Claw x2 [500K], Dragon Blood x2 [60K])
January 24th: (Ace's Helm [4M], Oily Trousers [1M])
January 26th: (White Tathlum [2M])

Outstanding Loans:
Arcaneo 24M. Reason: Bulk Alexandrite Purchase
Dioma 40.3M Reason: Excalibur (31 L. Jade @1.3M)
Meldity 49M Reason: Gungnir (39 M. Silvers @1.6M)

Whoops, I've edited like 15 times now but I figured I'd clarify that the values not listed in the parentheses are on ffxiah so I don't list those as I add it directly from there. Added a little more up top too;;

I keep forgetting stuff but we had a vote on whether to buy the LS funded KC or not and I made it very clear in that post that I would be the one with it the vast majority of time and even myself voted no on it but I was among the 3 or so people voting no... so there you go.

[Bukadan]

As far as Dioma getting anything and everything he wants and abusing the bank, the people, ect, I can say that that is false. While I was in his linkshell before I got hacked, I used to have as much as 30m lying around even after buying 2 sniper's +1's, and alot of other gear for all my jobs. I recieved THF hands, RDM hat, homam, pretty much anything I wanted, i got. if I was still with perse (which i will be returning to in exactly 1 month in 1 week) im sure that I would have a relic, 100% positive, I was actually considering mandau pretty hard and i was NOT even a sack. dioma's relics were all funded by loans, the generosity of friends, and by his own pocket change. he has a 90% attendance rate, doing shit he doesnt need ANYTHING from. Anyone that is dedicated enough can get relics, get gear, ect from perse. in fact, perse is often way TOO easy, because there have been people who got rare items/relics, only to leave/quit for their own selfish reasons.Dioma was the best linkshell leader and one of the best friends i met while playing this game.

[D44kpunk]

He sold 2 of his characters to fund two of them and traded WOW gold for the third.

This is wrong, he only got 10m for each character the taru and the hume, that was 20m total. Also he did not trade WOW gold for the third he traded WOW gold for tredvolts character. Mini claimed he had gil stacked up from abusing the gardening glitch, which is believable and that's how he said he funded his relics.

[ronin sparthos]

Some people don't mind being left in the dust so to speak if they are going to get coherent, stern, solid and effective leadership in the process.

In summary, people will take dictatorships if it means putting in little effort with rewards somewhere down the line.