Alpha System Requirements - Let the Upgrades Begin?

[Uzor]

Or perhaps its because its an alpha version they limit it to 720p. It wouldn't surprise me in the least, you know?

[Enos]

I'm sure there are other reasons to run an alpha version of a game in 720p...but what they are exactly I do not know.

Let's just relax and take it as it comes...not like we have any say on the issues being discussed any how.

This is 2010 people, I am sure SE knows what is expected out of an MMO being released this year....and FFXIV will have a lot of competition from other MMOs to come. While the PS3 FFXIV may be optimized and less easy on the eyes, I am sure the PC release of XIV will be pretty beastly!

[niwaar]

What's your proof? 720p is not a PC resolution. It's lower than what anyone owning a PC with those specs would be running other games in. Sounds more to me like it's using PS3 game assets because that's what priority was put on to finish in time.

If you mean that they're not trying to kludge a PS3 port onto the PC like they did with FFXI/PS2, then that's only half the story. Like people are saying, if the existence of the PS3 version effects what the PC gets in any way then that's not what is desired by PC gamers, and it's not a PC-first title.

PC first would mean that if the PS3 can't handle it, or it wouldn't work for a console (mods, etc), then you know what? Tough luck. PC gets it anyway.

Having the ALPHA run at console resolution would be a rather odd start on a game like that. It smells a lot like the crap that was FFXI for PC (much less 360), or the job that was done on porting FFXIII. For all the work they put into design/models/etc, the apparent effort spent on making it run is questionable.

Granted, I have basically zero confidence in SE as a PC developer, and it would take quite a lot to change that opinion.

Its not a console port. We have stated that several times already. SE has stated it as such several times since announcing the games production. The reason to limit the Alpha to a console resolution of 720p is because they are looking to be stable during their Alpha. They want to get a lower resolution that will be the standard across all 3 of their proposed platforms to work in a stable environment before pushing the envelope to higher settings. Its not unheard of to limit graphical options in an ALPHA or a Beta. Especially early on in the process. They are making the game run with what they think are minimum settings in a non optimized game. So they can optimize them and have a stable product. They will expand it in the coming months.

Remember, they said that they wish to see a much longer Beta process than XI's. The previous incarnations beta lasted all of three months. We can expect them to run this for at least 4-6 months. They want player feedback more than anything. Not only about bugs, but gameplay elements, graphics, options, etc as well. Its far too early to be second guessing anything about the game when they have been so upfront about what they want out of the testing process.

[Vuitton]

Didn't SE also state when it first announced the game that the engine was designed to be able to tax computers five years after release? That they wanted to future proof the graphics to a degree? I remember this. Since its their engine they'll probably limit the max settings like in FFXI, but that can be registry hacked much farther than consoles would allow. Who knows. Its too soon tell or cry about it.

[Lucavi]

Its not a console port. We have stated that several times already. SE has stated it as such several times since announcing the games production. The reason to limit the Alpha to a console resolution of 720p is because they are looking to be stable during their Alpha. They want to get a lower resolution that will be the standard across all 3 of their proposed platforms to work in a stable environment before pushing the envelope to higher settings. Its not unheard of to limit graphical options in an ALPHA or a Beta. Especially early on in the process. They are making the game run with what they think are minimum settings in a non optimized game. So they can optimize them and have a stable product. They will expand it in the coming months.

I remember hearing all of that, but I also remember hearing years of PS2 limitations, and years of SE admitting that they wouldn't be differentiating between the shared systems, as it would be unfair to the PS2, which the majority of their main targets (Read: Japanese players) used.

You seriously think it'll be different? Seriously? You think a MMO that's going to stretch between 2 consoles and a PC will have graphic settings that will crush the maximum potential of both the PS3 and the 360? Lets not even mention that the majority of JP players still aren't using PCs for hardcore gaming.

Its not even about limiting anything for alpha and beta, its about 5 years down the road: will the PC version of FF, including not only graphics, but development ideas and concepts that were previously heavily snared by the limitations of inferior consoles, be allowed to progress in a way that only PCs can currently progress - consistent upgrades to not only pretty graphics, but to entire graphic engines that will require increasingly larger and larger amounts of memory storage and use?

I don't think so. You may believe otherwise, because of a few words SE reps stated long before the initial version of their game was complete, but link a few Successful MMOs that have been cross-platform and have allowed for the PC version to continuously upgrade, while the console version was left behind. You can't even compare this MMO to most others, because they are restricted to a single system. Age of Conan is undoubtedly the best-looking MMO on the market right now, and go figure: they scrapped the idea for the 360 port, due in part to the age of the console.

In case you had forgotten, SE had lots of talk and pretty words about the future potential for FFXI, and later admitted that they were experiencing difficulty trying to upgrade graphics, as well as add new systems to the game, due to the fact that the PS2 was simply running out of space. They admitted that they could have taken the PC version farther, but didn't want to separate the versions.

Just as you can say "the game isn't even finished yet - they could raise the 720 resolution before the retail version", I can also say "the game isn't even finished yet - they could easily downscale their ambitions for the future of the game based on the realistic lifespan of the consoles, both of which already have a few years on them." History repeats itself.

[Katlan]

^ umad, not much else to say. Why are you so negative towards a game that isnt even released/in alpha. And why can't you get past blaming SE for FFXI's shortcomings in a game thay made... what... 7 years ago? I mean surely you have read all SE making statements saying the game is being made on PC and being ported over.
And all you have to go by is that the alpha is going to be in windowed mode... because... for all we know, maybe they are having issues w/ windowed mode vs full screen and therefor putting more focused testing on windowed mode. I know when WAR was released Windowed mode was fucking a lot of computers up and causing the game to crash. Im just throwing out ideas, but u seem pretty fast to put blame down

[naninani]

wall of umad

Jesus Christ dude. Calm down.
Let the testing occur before you start soothsaying.
Damn.

[KingSpeculation]

Hmm

[Lucavi]

^ umad, not much else to say. Why are you so negative towards a game that isnt even released/in alpha. And why can't you get past blaming SE for FFXI's shortcomings in a game thay made... what... 7 years ago? I mean surely you have read all SE making statements saying the game is being made on PC and being ported over.
And all you have to go by is that the alpha is going to be in windowed mode... because... for all we know, maybe they are having issues w/ windowed mode vs full screen and therefor putting more focused testing on windowed mode. I know when WAR was released Windowed mode was fucking a lot of computers up and causing the game to crash. Im just throwing out ideas, but u seem pretty fast to put blame down

It has nothing to do with being mad. If you look at any other product on the market based on what a company is promising for the future instead of what they actually said and did in practice in the past, someone would call you a fool. Instead, its perfectly acceptable to ignore all of the facts of the past and just take everything they say as absolutes, just because its SE and you're looking forward to their game?

So be it.

I'm as excited as you are, but a new game can only be as "new" as the company that is developing it. If you want to ignore everything about their previous MMO other than what you enjoyed, have a blast. I certainly remember you posting "mad" responses to announcements that SE had made in the past, but if its for their new game, everything is peas and chipped gravy. Got it.

[Katlan]

. I certainly remember you posting "mad" responses to announcements that SE had made in the past, but if its for their new game, everything is peas and chipped gravy. Got it.

because everybody likes everything about every game and because there r some things I don't like.... Wait, what r u trying to argue again? I got lost.... Ur clearly trying to hard

[Reality]

What's your proof?

where do you think anyone gets their proof of inside information? is it that hard to figure out? of course people aren't going to just blurt out their sources on certain things

but i forgot, if i post anything that i know for a fact to be true, i must provide sources!

this isn't a college paper, it's a message board, if you don't want to believe it, you are well within your rights to blow it off

and, as already stated, the main reason (amongst others) to run the alpha at 720p (CONSOLE resolution? lol), is to lessen the horsepower required to run it, as it most certainly will not be optimized on any piece of hardware once it goes live

I remember playing the Crysis beta, jesus christ, what a buggy piece of shit, there's no way i was able to run it at 1920x1200 playable on my system, and get more than 15fps out of it whenever there was action on screen (when crysis was released, after the two patches, i get around 29-30fps at my native resolution with most settings on high and a few on very high, shaders, and i can't remember the other one)

[Khamsin]

but i forgot, if i post anything that i know for a fact to be true, i must provide sources!

this isn't a college paper, it's a message board, if you don't want to believe it, you are well within your rights to blow it off

Nobody know what's going on inside your head. Doesn't matter if you're the lead programmer on FFXIV yourself, if only you know it. If you want anything you post under the pretense of "inside information" to be respected, then you'll have to do a little better than that.

It may not be a college paper, but there's a reason they ask for sources on college papers. It's to prepare you for the real world where people aren't going to respect what you have to say if you haven't proven yourself and earned that respect.

We may have the choice to believe it or blow it off, but you also have the choice to post it or not. If you post it, and further justify it as inside information, prepare for people to challenge it. If you really don't care, just post it as your opinion and let people decide whether to share that opinion or not.

Not saying you do or don't have inside information, just that if you claim that you do without proof, expect that sort of reaction. Don't complain about it and act like people are being unreasonable for not believing you.

[Plow]

Seriously dude?

He's in the beta and there's an nda up stating that he can't say so.

That was pretty hard to figure out.

[niwaar]

...
Just as you can say "the game isn't even finished yet - they could raise the 720 resolution before the retail version", I can also say "the game isn't even finished yet - they could easily downscale their ambitions for the future of the game based on the realistic lifespan of the consoles, both of which already have a few years on them." History repeats itself.

The thing you are continually failing to grasp is that the rock and heart of the gaming world remains the PC. The current generation of consoles take a front seat, but the core of hardcore gaming and long term dedicated customers remain on the PC. It doesn't matter that Japan itself has more MMO players that play XI via their aging PS2s. It matters what the future is, and SE knows that the future (and present) of the MMO is going to rely on the PC as a base. Just because SE has made it clear that they want a truly global, multiplatform experience doesnt mean that the consoles will be the limiting factor.

As for the future of a game in terms of graphics... Ask yourself how much the globe's biggest MMO has changed graphically over the years since its release. While they have made some changes under the hood, the overall system requirements to play the game have not changed drastically over this time. The game may look better than it did, but its not because they want more from your system, but use your system more efficiently.

Either way, the game is in Alpha. We can only wait and see how they do things. You are correct, this is SE we are dealing with here. We put up with a shitload of BS in order to play XI over the years. To most of us the BS was worth it. To others it wasn't. We have to wait til we see something to know if we have anything to worry about.

[Galkaeater]

Well for WoW it did help alot that they improved the art direction come wotlk.

[Plow]

Well, and also, people should realize that we haven't generally seen developers getting the "most" out of consoles for at least 6-7 years after they come out (Gran Turismo 1 vs 2 on PS1 anyone?) since 32 bits hit.

The Cell technology isn't even remotely close to being fully utilized, and they're already doing insane shit with it. (http://gravity.phy.umassd.edu/ps3.html)

[Lucavi]

The thing you are continually failing to grasp is that the rock and heart of the gaming world remains the PC. The current generation of consoles take a front seat, but the core of hardcore gaming and long term dedicated customers remain on the PC. It doesn't matter that Japan itself has more MMO players that play XI via their aging PS2s. It matters what the future is, and SE knows that the future (and present) of the MMO is going to rely on the PC as a base. Just because SE has made it clear that they want a truly global, multiplatform experience doesnt mean that the consoles will be the limiting factor.

As for the future of a game in terms of graphics... Ask yourself how much the globe's biggest MMO has changed graphically over the years since its release. While they have made some changes under the hood, the overall system requirements to play the game have not changed drastically over this time. The game may look better than it did, but its not because they want more from your system, but use your system more efficiently.

Either way, the game is in Alpha. We can only wait and see how they do things. You are correct, this is SE we are dealing with here. We put up with a shitload of BS in order to play XI over the years. To most of us the BS was worth it. To others it wasn't. We have to wait til we see something to know if we have anything to worry about.

We'll see. I don't share your faith in SE to understand that the MMO train runs through the PC first and consoles second, or they'd have simply placed it on PC only. It's not like dumping consoles will affect sales - if anything, it could bolster world-wide sales as some people just don't like the idea of their game potentially being watered down due to a console appearance. Its not like Blizzard has ever hurt their profit margin by refusing to branch out onto consoles.

SE isn't Blizzard, though, and I don't want them to be. I just want them to do what's best for a game genre that is based on continuous upgrades that the player pays for each month, and that includes improvements to the graphics and designs of the game.

Ask yourself if Blizzard could have successfully implemented the phasing system today if WoW had been released on PC and PS2 back in 04, as well as the processing intensity of introducing the Wintergrasp battle, or even allowing for full flight over the whole of Northrend. I can't see all of that being possible on a tired old console, and yet, that is what can once again happen to this FF MMO.

@Plow: SE isn't Polyphony. That company is absolutely dedicated to wringing out every lat bit of potential out of their engines. SE is a company that designed a MMO code that has more holes in it than Internet Explorer. SE is a company that left a solid gig on two disks of the shoddy 360 port of FFXIII. SE is a company that released more than one shoddy Playstation FF port to the PC. You think they somehow just "woke up" and have everything down pat now? They magically understand everything about the proper way to port their systems across multiple fields? I'm no greater or lesser fan of SE than anyone here, I just don't share the faith that you all have.

I can't believe so many people want MMOs on consoles. I can't even remember the last successful true MMO on a shared PC/console setup that isn't long-dead by now.

[Hyan]

PC-only MMO's tend to kinda suck graphics wise. WoW wanted to appeal to the masses, so they didn't make the game as good looking as it could have been. SW:TOR seems to be the same way. I can't blame them, though. Huge part of the potential market, or should I say biggest, does not have good enough PC's to run new games on a level that would look good. The hardware costs too much, and people can't afford to spend so much just to get to play something.

However, consoles offer pretty good hardware for lower price. If you design the game for console as well as PC, you can give the customers good graphics without cutting off good part of the potential playerbase. Those who can't afford a new PC can play on a console, and those who have a good gaming PC can use that to get ahead of the console users. Of course like this the game can't be as good as it could be if it was a PC only title, but if you want as many customers as possible without it letting affect the game too much, designing it for console is a good middle-road.

Of course there are also PC only MMO's that look good graphics wise. I'd go as far as to say that they would have done better were they released on a console as well, though.

[Reality]

Seriously dude?

He's in the beta and there's an nda up stating that he can't say so.

That was pretty hard to figure out.

Haven't broken any NDA rules yet btw, the fact that the game is primarily being developed for the PC rather than PS3 isn't something that has been mentioned by SE on the beta forums.

[Kirb]

If I remember correctly, didn't SE specifically say that the graphics for the PC and console versions were self-contained for the purpose of being upgraded and enhanced seperately in the future? Seeing as the PC is the only one that can really reasonably be upgraded, this would heavily hint towards XIV being primarily developed for the PC.