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  1. #1

    Any law school students or grads here?

    So I'm actually thinking about swapping to patent law after I get back from this deployment (I love physics, but I'm a greedy bastard and would like to make more money). I was curious if anyone here had info on reasonable GPA/LSAT scores and the application/acceptance process.

    I live in Tucson and would like to go to the UA law school, but am unsure of what all law schools look for and what are the odds or acceptance and the general process.

    I've researched average LSAT/GPA scores for the UA and other colleges, the application process and needed info (letters of reference, personal statement, validation of moral standing (though I dont know what that means really), and application submittal. I'm really looking for personal experiance though and some more insight than just online/pamplet information.

    Also, for those that have finished law school, do you enjoy it?

  2. #2

    Quote Originally Posted by Neosutra View Post
    validation of moral standing (though I dont know what that means really)
    Basically, do you have a soul? Yes/No.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana View Post
    Basically, do you have a soul? Yes/No.
    Most law schools wont accept you if you do.

  4. #4

    lol Tucson. I think ASU has a good program too if you can stand Phoenix. My dad went through law school and never practiced, he is making money in finance now. He's always pushing me to do it and talks about how great of an education it is even if you don't want to practice. He'd probably pay for it if I could get into it. I'm not sure about the specifics of losing your soul, our judicial system promises fair trial, even defense lawyers fit into the scheme, I don't see anything wrong with it.

    /2 cents

  5. #5

    Wife lives in Tucson, dont really feel like driving 2 hours each way a day.

  6. #6
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    when you sign up for LSAC (you need to to even apply) they have a tool where you enter your GPA and LSAT score and it gives you your % to get into each law school. It's purely about the numbers. And no one enjoys law school.
    I don't know a lot about patent law. Is that something you can practice in Tucson?

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    Well as for Patent Law, realize that you don't have to go to law school. You can take the Patent Bar with just a certain number of science hours (that can be found on their website) or a certain major (I was kind of upset to find that my Math degree didn't qualify). Law school will look better when job hunting, but the big thing I would check is to see if you can sit for the Patent Bar. If you can't I would get the hours you need before law school, or get close so you can take classes while in law school to get them.

  8. #8

    Also the supply of lawyers drastically out-strips the demand, the employment rate of law-school grads in their field(being things besides para-legals and "working at a firm...getting the coffee") is...shockingly low.

    Recessions tend to cause a spike in enrollment too, with huge swathes of people who stay on or go to law school rather than enter the work-force in the middle of one, and you're going to be competing with those people upon graduation...you basically chose one of the worst times to go into the field.

    I would seriously urge anyone going into law to really closely look at the field, it's not easy or even good money like people seem to think, and for the majority of grads, it's no money.

  9. #9
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    I would tell you that the LSAT is easier than the GRE, but since you're a physics guru and math just isn't my game, you'll probably find the GRE easier. Once you nail practice all the logic, it's not too bad. Pick up a copy of the Powerscore LSAT logical reasoning bible.

    I didn't graduate. Had a kid and stopped. Doing another degree now. Darus is absolutely right though. Open up a yellow pages phone book and turn to the A's, and you'll understand. I don't know much about patent law either, so no help there.

  10. #10

    Im really concerned about my GPA though. I was first in my class for physics, but ended with a 3.19 after all undergrad and grad. I look at lawschool apps and its like 3.7+...

    Do I have a chance?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neosutra View Post
    Im really concerned about my GPA though. I was first in my class for physics, but ended with a 3.19 after all undergrad and grad. I look at lawschool apps and its like 3.7+...

    Do I have a chance?
    You should be fine, just probably not for a Top Tier law school. I am going to Tulsa (which is officially Tier 3 I think) and I just had a 3.4 and a 151 on the LSAT (Barely got in, gogo Math Major that no one else has). And for the record, a good knowledge of Math actually makes the LSAT easier. So much is logic, which is just what math is.

  12. #12

    3.4 is a lot better than 3.19 though. I look at these gpa entrance requirements and the minimums are almost always 3.2ish.

    Im a good test taker though, I hope that if I can ace the LSAT it will counterbalance that, and that they will look at the degrees too.

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    You can always use this to help you guess whether you can get in: http://officialguide.lsac.org/UGPASearch/Search3.aspx

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    Your GPA itself doesn't matter, it's your GPA in relation to everyone else that matters Neo.

  15. #15

    Im fucked then, all these poli-sci majors and other easy undergrad prelaw people with 3.7-4.0's are going to wipe the floor with me lol.

    Oh well, back to the lab I guess.

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  17. #17

    Quote Originally Posted by Neosutra View Post
    Im fucked then, all these poli-sci majors and other easy undergrad prelaw people with 3.7-4.0's are going to wipe the floor with me lol.

    Oh well, back to the lab I guess.
    Fordham Law in NYC is rated as one of the top 20 law schools in the country and they take students with around a 3.4~ GPA (which is what I have) because of the other schools here in NY. It's really about where you live and whats available. I was gonna wait to go to law school until after I had a job, a steady real job, but nothing has really come up since the NYPD and NY state court officers aren't hiring. So now Im thinking about enrolling maybe right after this semester so I'm kinda in a position that you are, except because of my location there are a lot of options for me.

    I also have a father who practices law and owns his practice so I'm in a little better position after graduation. Although I'd possibly like to look into working as an ADA for job security, though there are many other options.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neosutra View Post
    Im fucked then, all these poli-sci majors and other easy undergrad prelaw people with 3.7-4.0's are going to wipe the floor with me lol.

    Oh well, back to the lab I guess.
    No no no no. It's against people in your major, not your school. My GPA when calculated for law school was a 2.7 and I got in. Also, if you can show an uptrend and can explain that, it will nullify a shitty GPA.

  19. #19

    LSAT matters so much more to schools. A 3.19 doesn't hurt your chances at all. University of Arizona has a Median of 162 for LSAT. You are probably in the 25th percentile for GPA. Typically, if you're weak in one area, you want to be strong in another area. So you'd need at least a 162+ to be competitive at University of Arizona (ASU has a 159 median). University of Arizona is ranked 38, btw. They are not a 'lol' school. Also, admissions offices DO pay attention to what your undergrad was. They also look at your softs and your other admission material, like your personal statement (Required).

    I just went through the application cycle, and to be honest I was worried about my GPA. However, I scored well enough on the LSAT to end up at Denver, ASU, Marquette University, UNLV or New Mexico. I haven't made my choice yet, but Marquette gave me 60k scholarship without any strings attached. Some schools care about GPA though, for sure.

    If you want to know your chances, go here: www.lawschoolpredictor.com

    www.Lawschoolnumbers.com is also a good resource, it is admission info that is user submitted. But, as I'm sure you'll notice, the numbers are not representative. It is nice to know where people with your numbers are getting Yes/No/Waitlist decisions.

    If you score above a 160, you can have your choice between most schools ranked 50-100.. Regardless of what your GPA is. However, studying for the LSAT is a long process. You can take it in June, September, December or February (sometimes they change it to an earlier or later month). However, if you take it in december, it -will- hurt your chances during the application process because you are applying later. If you take it in February, you are really too late to apply, but some schools will let you--also the february test is never disclosed to students, you will never know what questions you got wrong. It takes a month to get your scores back after taking a test as well. Pretty ridiculous. Oh, and you can only take the test 3 times in the span of 2 years.

    Definitely get Powerscore LR and LG bibles, they are great. But mostly, buy as many LSAT tests as you can. Nothing prepares you more than taking the tests under real test conditions.

    Lsac also offers a real test for free. http://www.lsac.org/pdfs/test.pdf

    If you want to see how you perform, take it under timed pressure. 35 minutes a section, no breaks inbetween sections 1, 2 and 3. and a 10 minute break between the last section, section 4. (When you take the LSAT, there will actually be 5 sections, with a break between section 3 and 4. The extra section is an 'experimental' section, which is a 'fake' section that lets the testmakers test new questions for future test takers. The experimental is always one of the first three sections, and you can find out which it is once you hit section 4 and 5 or when you talk to other test takers (dont get caught doing this). However, it shouldn't matter which was experimental because you can't go back.. so don't ruin your focus worrying, just do the best you can... Although, I got three Logical Reasoning sections in a row.. FUCK that shit.

    DONT peek at the questions in this test. Take it. In fact, I would avoid looking up sample LSAT questions, because it RUINS tests. There is a finite amount of real test questions available. The more you look at them, the more you hurt your chances of getting an accurate reading of your performance. Depending on what you score on your "cold diagnostic," it is realistic to gain at least 10 points with studying. As you approach 160, it gets increasingly harder however. Logic Games can be learned, so that you score 100% on each section. Logical Reasoning and Reading Comprehension are where the real battle lies.

    All in all, have fun. I'm glad to be done with it, and eager to start in August. Any questions, ask me.

    Also, to add to swampdonkey, if you have ever re-taken any classes because of a low grade, or ever got an F or anything. IT WILL SCREW your GPA, as it does not go away when LSAC figures out your LSAC GPA. LSAC does not have an academic forgiveness policy.

    And I see SOO many 3.8+s struggle to get above 150. It's kind of hilarious. And those people will not get accepted based soley on their GPA.

    Also, MORAL standing. If you have ever been cited or have gotten anything more serious than a speeding ticket, you MUST disclose it to the law school. If you do not disclose these events, you can get in, sure, but your background will be looked into when you go before the Bar... and then you're screwed. You also must disclose any academic discipline you have ever received. A lot of my friends had to write MIC disclosure statements. I had to write a "over 10 mph" disclosure statement. Overall, it doesn't hurt your application.. unless of course you did something that shows a real lack in judgement or did something that reveals a serious flaw in your character.

    Sorry for so many edits. I'm done now, haha.

  20. #20
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    What swamp said, I took the LSAT several years ago and applied to law school and got it (GPA 3.0, BS Sociology/Stats), but decided not to go and would rather have fun in Europe. Glad I didn't now looking back as I wouldn't have enjoyed my 20s as much, would have been in a ton of debt, and wouldn't be in my current field which I like a lot. Strongly considering going back part time for my MBA as I took the GMAT and did decent.

    Make extra sure you really want to go to law school. As others have mentioned, law school isn't what it used to be and especially with the economy more and more people are going there. I have friends who have been out of law school over a year looking for a decent job and haven't found one. That said, I know others who are doing quite well. It's all about connections you make in law school from my understanding.

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