FFXIV Random Speculation/Question thread II: Let's Speculate the Speculations

[Battlecat]

I don't know what Repose is, quit before that, but sleep and lullaby were definitely very different.

But yeah.

Oh so they gave very different effects? Apparently I've gotten this wrong for 6 years of FFXI playing... I could have sworn that all 3 of those spells put monsters to sleep. Would be awesome if you could correct me on what they actually do though, would greatly appreciate it.

[brand]

I quit before Repose launched also, but lullaby used a different stat to determine effectiveness and affected undead, which Sleep didn't. This is not the same spell, though the effects are similar.

This is not like the situation where resurrect is theoretically just a renamed raise, unless resurrect also works differently, as niwaar supposes, as a battle raise.

[e] adjusted spell names.

[Kalisa]

Sleep affected undead, just not as well--it had a high resist rate.

Honestly, the only difference between Lullaby/Sleep is one is light/CHR based and one is dark/INT based. Same with Repose/Sleep II (with Repose being MND based).

Also, this doesn't have to do with FF14. Both reraise and soulward say "allows target to ____" so both could potentially be targeted on something other than the caster. Or potentially not.

[Battlecat]

I give up... I'm not arguing with people that don't even know how the spells they're arguing about work. My only point was that the 2 raises/reraises likely give the same end effect. How it gets there doesn't really matter.

[Loaar]

I give up... I'm not arguing with people that don't even know how the spells they're arguing about work. My only point was that the 2 raises/reraises likely give the same end effect. How it gets there doesn't really matter.

By your definition bind on a melee mob is the same as sleep/repose/lullaby.

While the end result is the same, the fact that sleep/lullaby affects different mobs in different ways makes them very different spells.

[niwaar]

I give up... I'm not arguing with people that don't even know how the spells they're arguing about work. My only point was that the 2 raises/reraises likely give the same end effect. How it gets there doesn't really matter.

More than likely but its a speculation/question thread so yeah, here's to hoping that one is a rez you can use inside battle. Eitherway, I am guessing it will be only be at an extreme level to Sub it in.

As for the Sleep/Repose/Lullaby thing ... Well Sleep was Dark based, and Repose/Lullaby was light based, where lullaby was not a spell at all.

I could guess that Resurrect and Raise could be the same spell, its not unheard of to flavor name for each class in an MMO.

[Skeptic]

I don't think there will be mog house, Moogles did not even play a large role in any FF game in the enitre series, some games all they where used for is save point or hints in the credits of the game.

I wish I could buy a "Tent" from a NPC and be able to use it in the Field. That would bring back some FF memories

[Khamsin]

Hmm not really as there are no actual subjobs in 14 so it doesn't apply.

You only get to use what SE want you to, probably allowing your secondary skills to be the same level as your main ones.

Semantics.

If its limited to a class then its also a trait, doesn't matter if its active or passive.

You said that an ability that can't be used on any other class is really a trait. As in, the fact that it's exclusive to a class and cannot be used by anyone else is what defines it as a trait.

I just don't think there's any basis for saying a "trait" means an ability that can't be used with another class, considering you could use one job's defining traits (such as dual wield) on another job in FFXI by equipping a subjob, and there's a mechanism to fulfill the purpose of subjobs in FFXIV, as well. And traits, in the way we're used to using the term, aren't abilities you activate but rather things that kick in automatically. The definition of "trait" has never had anything to do with its exclusivity to a class. I think it's a bit more than just semantics.

Now, if you wanted to say instead that you think traits (in the traditional sense of the term, not "active abilities that are exclusive to a class") won't be able to be used on other classes, then that's fine. We haven't seen traits explicitly defined anywhere in our game menus yet, and we have no way to equip them. It's also possible not all abilities will be able to be transferred to other classes. But that doesn't make those particular abilities "traits".

[Vacht]

I noticed from the list of abilities that Cairthenn provided that Conjurer and Thaumaturge have spells that appear to be the same yet are named differently.

Conjurer: Reraise (Revives target on being KO'ed)
Thaumaturge: Soulward (Allows target to instantaneously revive on being KO'ed)

Conjurer: Raise (Revives a KO'ed target)
Thaumaturge: Resurrect (Revives a KO'ed target)

I'm wondering if the spells have different effects (shorter sickness for Raise or Resurrect) or if the timer on how long you have to take the res for Reraise or Soulward is different.

If they are the same and SE have just included them both to make it fit the "theme" of the magic types then that's a bit of a change too. In FFXI mages just had access to identical spells to varying degrees.

Maybe they have different names for different classes because each class' ability will respond diffferently when equipped on another class. But then again, only factor that could dictate that method would be elements.. which isnt really addressing the difference in names. Maybe they would use different names for them just for that elemental interaction.

Superficial differences for a diverse playing 'experience'?

The last thing i can think of is that some of this could be bad translation? Resurrect is definitely just another way to say raise. Or something similar, considering this isnt 'direct' info from SE.

Sleep affected undead, just not as well--it had a high resist rate.

Honestly, the only difference between Lullaby/Sleep is one is light/CHR based and one is dark/INT based. Same with Repose/Sleep II (with Repose being MND based).

Also, this doesn't have to do with FF14. Both reraise and soulward say "allows target to ____" so both could potentially be targeted on something other than the caster. Or potentially not.

After reading this it just makes me realize again... that we need all the facts! :/ i wish we were doing something more productive like testing!

[SkullRobot]

Thanks to Cairthenn looks like it's still on for tomorrow(tuesday). Thanks Cairthenn!

On topic: could the different spells mean 1 could be for DoM only while the other could be for DoW and DoM?

[Jinko]

It's also possible not all abilities will be able to be transferred to other classes. But that doesn't make those particular abilities "traits".

It kind of does, because its a trait to that class, no other class can use it, you can also say its an ability in that only that class can use but as I said before its semantics.

Don't think its worth arguing over though.

I don't think battle raise applies, you could cast reraise/raise during battle it just took a really long time and used a crazy amount of your mp.

[Merlincloud]

Since this is all speculations anyway; anyone want to take a guess on how SE would eventually add pet jobs? I can see them inputting Pup in a way kind of easy with making the "doll" its weapon and equiping it like a weapon in the slot but any Idea how Se would pull Smn or Bst out of this weapon=job

[Jinko]

Since this is all speculations anyway; anyone want to take a guess on how SE would eventually add pet jobs? I can see them inputting Pup in a way kind of easy with making the "doll" its weapon and equiping it like a weapon in the slot but any Idea how Se would pull Smn or Bst out of this weapon=job

Different weapons for differents summons ?

Perhaps a tool like the camera from pankration where you take a monsters pic and can use it to fight with ?

[SkullRobot]

Different weapons for differents summons ?

Perhaps a tool like the camera from pankration where you take a monsters pic and can use it to fight with ?

or a paintbrush! Paintbrush/canvas combo!

[Kiarax]

Since this is all speculations anyway; anyone want to take a guess on how SE would eventually add pet jobs? I can see them inputting Pup in a way kind of easy with making the "doll" its weapon and equiping it like a weapon in the slot but any Idea how Se would pull Smn or Bst out of this weapon=job

There's nothing to say every classes weapon has to be unique. They could quite easily add any sort of weapon that makes you summoner like staves, wands or maybe even something new like books/tomes.

[Hyan]

There's nothing to say every classes weapon has to be unique. They could quite easily add any sort of weapon that makes you summoner like staves, wands or maybe even something new like books/tomes.

Yep, it does look like many classes can share the same weapon type.

Fencers seem to use Rapiers for example, so there would be room for "curved blades" class too.

Summoners could use "Summoner arms" like conjurers and thaumaturges use their respective arms. It looks like it's not as strict as with melee classes.

BST's can use single handed axes.

[Merlincloud]

On that note of odd weapons Ive always been a fan of the Morpher job in FFTA I always thought it neat to capture a monster then use its soul to change into that monster; if this could be done in 14 would anyone mind this being the new BST? It could use "orbs" and have a capture ability and then learn that spell it would be like the combo of bst and blu all in one

[mastamind]

On that note of odd weapons Ive always been a fan of the Morpher job in FFTA I always thought it neat to capture a monster then use its soul to change into that monster; if this could be done in 14 would anyone mind this being the new BST? It could use "orbs" and have a capture ability and then learn that spell it would be like the combo of bst and blu all in one

I could get into this idea, seeing as there were alot of areas in ff11 with less than stellar monster types that would be used as pets when leveling. But there would be times i would be sad that i could send a pet in just to watch it die, or send an army of pets in to kill a particularly high level / tough monster.

[Ksandra]

Posting to re-point out that we now have a sticky with the Alpha/Beta announcement/times here:

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92159

Please stop asking questions on when the next Alpha is in this thread.

[solracht]

It kind of does, because its a trait to that class, no other class can use it, you can also say its an ability in that only that class can use but as I said before its semantics.

Semantics.

If its limited to a class then its also a trait, doesn't matter if its active or passive.

In FFXI, Job Traits are passive traits, whether they were exclusive to certain jobs or not doesn't matter and is not in the definition of a job trait.

The argument was whether FFXIV classes would end getting FFXI-like Job Traits or not, not whether weapons would have exclusive things or not. At some point people started exchanging Job Traits with traits, and that's where the confusion began.

Will classes have exclusive active abilities and hidden traits? For sure, some have already been confirmed.

Will classes also have Job Traits like in XI ? (Fast Cast, Conserve MP, Zanshin, etc) We don't know, and that was the argument.