Random Cataclysm discussion

[Gulkeeva]

Sounds good and bad at the same time...

10man you less likely have "that guy", but it kind of confines what you can bring.. so it could be harder in a way.

25man theirs more room to messup... you can bring a whole lot of everything.. but! You can have alot fail in that same raid.

also...!

The hell am I going to do with all the extra free time now that I won't have 10+25man raids to do each week ;/

wonder if its going to be tuned like.. say putricide heroic 10/25man... 10man versions is a joke compared to 25man after you learned the fight ;/

[Cephius]

Sounds good and bad at the same time...

10man you less likely have "that guy", but it kind of confines what you can bring.. so it could be harder in a way.

25man theirs more room to messup... you can bring a whole lot of everything.. but! You can have alot fail in that same raid.

also...!

The hell am I going to do with all the extra free time now that I won't have 10+25man raids to do each week ;/

join eagle and fap to mithras in ff14, obviously!

[Falisa]

I personally look forward to this raid change. But I think my opinion is only because I have been in a guild where I enjoyed our static 10 mans more than the 25 mans just because the 10 man only comprised of people that knew what the hell they were doing, while the guilds 25 man had people who were there just to fill a raid spot and died to every sindragosa draw in or frost bolt.

[seph32]

I'm not looking forward to it. Kinda retarded if you ask me. Don't know how it will turn out we have 3 10-man teams already and main alt 25-man I wonder what's gonna happen to that. They should leave 25-man the way it is if you ask me.

[Correction]

If someone finds there class or role hard to play then i suggest they get a new class or role thats pretty simple if they like that class to much then they should take the time to learn it and play it to the best of there ability.

When TBC came out A LOT of guilds went through a transition as people rerolled to draenei/blood elf, but there are also a large number who kept their primary race/class combo to bring to the raids at 70. Ditto for DKs in WotLK. Come Cata the exact same will happen. This has nothing to do with how difficult a class is to play in any given raid role and more to do with managing the evolving preferences of the core of people you raid with. With 25 people, it is an order of magnitude easier to manage said preferences and still raid successfully than it is if you fall into '10 man strict' mode, just as it was easier to raid to people's preferences with 40 people in Vanilla WoW vs 25 man in TBC.

That is all I am trying to say. I really wonder what your point is because I have not said word one about how hard it is to play a class at 70, 80 or 85.

[Odon]

Even now you only gotta raid four days if you're still progressing hard in ICC 25 heroic. Less strict class comp requirements + you only need dungeon bluez for Cataclysm Raid Numero Uno = you'll get it done in a weekend, tops. They are not threatening us with another 15 boss raid :D

My guild has been 11/12 HM 25 for the past 3 weeks and we only raid two, four hour nights a week (tuesday and thursday) you don't need to raid a billion hours to progress in this game, you just need to not suck.

[Boyiee]

FUCKING FINALLY

I have been begging forever for 10s and 25s to share the same loot. No more DST's, DBW's, WFS's, Mjoll Runestones, Grim Tolls etc. No longer do I have to pug shitty 25mans just for leather bracers that the RL won't let me roll on as plate lol.

This makes me miss being in that top 100 guild a lot less. Same items, same content. Don't have to pug some shit now either.

This will not kill 25 mans, if you want the better gear you will do 25mans. It's pretty ignorant to think that it will hurt them or anything really. Why do you do 25mans now? To get the better gear. Nothing is changing in that aspect.

[Draxas]

I personally look forward to this raid change. But I think my opinion is only because I have been in a guild where I enjoyed our static 10 mans more than the 25 mans just because the 10 man only comprised of people that knew what the hell they were doing, while the guilds 25 man had people who were there just to fill a raid spot and died to every sindragosa draw in or frost bolt.

^ this

will be nice not to be foced into 25 mans just for the better gear.

[Tajin]

The guilds with a solid roster for 25m wont care, and having a 10m and 25m lockout will allow for more PuGs to happen. Yes I said more, since everyone will raid with all their alts instead of getting burned with fail pugs in 1 or 2 toons.

[fantasticdan]

This will not kill 25 mans, if you want the better gear you will do 25mans. It's pretty ignorant to think that it will hurt them or anything really. Why do you do 25mans now? To get the better gear. Nothing is changing in that aspect.

Try reading before you comment next time, 10 and 25 normal modes will drop the exact same gear.

[Thuronn]

Was that aimed at me? Really check your own posts before hand, like i said before im tired and im also raiding at the moment so only have breif period of time between each wipe to type something, i made a poorly strutchered post that i did go ahead to edit

Im sorry my typing and spelling is not up to your standards.

Funny how you have to ask though if it's about you. lol

See thissss time your just trolling, or trying to make me look like an ass for calling you out.

My b, bro my b.

And I in no way shape or form went Grammar-Nazi on you. So 'strutcher' any sentence the way you feel.

[The Blackrose]

I personally look forward to this raid change. But I think my opinion is only because I have been in a guild where I enjoyed our static 10 mans more than the 25 mans just because the 10 man only comprised of people that knew what the hell they were doing, while the guilds 25 man had people who were there just to fill a raid spot and died to every sindragosa draw in or frost bolt.

This is the same problem my guild is having. I have a solid 7-8 people (including me) in a single ICC 10 who pay attention and know what the fuck we're doing. As soon as you add in the rest of the guild, it becomes a big derpfest. Won't fix things for the other 10 man though: they're the big chunk of the derps.

[Gulkeeva]

join eagle and fap to mithras in ff14, obviously!

haha yeah goin ffxiv for sure when it comes out

anyway these changes is already making some want to quit, no real use to do 25mans anymore, and it gets rid of baddies in a way I guess so its all good!

no way is 10man going to be hard as 25man.. unless you have the baddies in it >.> it'll just be alot easier!

This I think will just make.. smaller "elite groups" and leaving the others to fend for themselves more so then they are now (but I'm sure blizz will cator to them in some way)

[Kaylia]

I won't miss 25 man raid. It's simply too frustrating to lose one of the pug guy after a rage quit, and it always take forever to organize a raid with all the afk. It's fine for something like VoA, but ToGC and ICC are too much of a pain (never did ulduar 25)


As long they manage to keep the encounter interesting and difficult, I really don't mind. If it turn out like VoA 2.0....it's going to be bad.

[Lucavi]

My guild has been 11/12 HM 25 for the past 3 weeks and we only raid two, four hour nights a week (tuesday and thursday) you don't need to raid a billion hours to progress in this game, you just need to not suck.

Say that to my face, fucker, and see what happens!

[Pendas]

New Point System for PvE and PvP

Spoiler: show

We're continuing to refine the badge/emblem and PvP point systems in Cataclysm and we'd like to share some of those changes with you today. Please enjoy!

Our primary goal when approaching badges in Cataclysm is to address a lot of the confusion that comes with these currency systems. To that end we're changing badges to a more straightforward point system, similar to the ones we've used for a while for Arenas and Battlegrounds. There will be a total of four types of points you can earn in Cataclysm (two for PvE and two for PvP), and these will remain the same even as we introduce new content.

Here's the breakdown:

PvE

* Hero Points -- Low-tier, easier-to-get PVE points. Maximum cap to how many you can own, but no cap to how quickly you can earn them. Earned from most dungeons. (most like the current Emblem of Triumph)
* Valor Points -- High-tier, harder-to-get PvE points. Maximum cap to how many you can own, as well as a cap to how many you can earn per week. Earned from Dungeon Finder daily Heroic and from raids. (most like the current Emblem of Frost)


PvP

* Honor Points -- Low-tier, easier-to-get PVP points. There will be a maximum cap to how many you can own, but no cap to how quickly you can earn them. Earned from most PvP activities.
* Conquest Points -- High-tier, harder-to-get PvP points. There will be a maximum cap to how many you can own, and a cap to how many you can earn per week. Earned from winning Rated Battlegrounds or Arenas. (currently called Arena Points)


When a new tier of raiding gear is released or a new PvP season begins, your higher tier of points will be converted into the lower tier. For instance, if a new tier of raid gear is released, your Valor points will be converted to Hero points, and similarly if a new PvP season begins your Conquest points will be converted to Honor points. Of course that means with these new releases you'll always begin without any of the higher tier of points, and thus be unable to stockpile them.

As noted for Conquest points, the Rated Battlegrounds and Arenas will be sharing this same point type. Because of that, it will in fact be possible to get the best PvP items without setting foot in Arena; however, more powerful armor and weapons will of course require more Conquest points, so players who win their matches more often will still gear up faster. We're removing personal rating requirements on almost all items; they're definitely removed for weapons. We might offer a few items to the absolute best players based on personal rating, largely as cosmetic or 'bragging rights' type items. And you'll have the option of purchasing the previous season’s gear with the more readily available Honor points.

We do plan to have a way to convert Honor points (PvP) into Hero points (PvE), and vice versa, at a loss. The conversions will be possible, but it won't be a 1:1 rate, and you'll have fewer points after the conversion process. We won't allow the higher tiers to be exchanged for each other, however.

To explain the reasoning for the weekly cap on points for the higher tiers, this is to provide flexibility in how players choose to earn the points without feeling like they have to do all of the content as often as it is available. If your Valor income from raiding is sufficient, you may not feel the need to run Dungeon Finder every night, or perhaps even at all. Likewise, a PvP player could choose to participate in a lot of Rated Battlegrounds but no Arenas, or focus on both, and still be able to earn the points they want.

[Krye]

First stats are "too mathy" so they have to go.

Now emblems and arena points are being changed to "address the confusion" and make a "more straightforward point system".

Why don't they just come out with it already and call us retarded.

Oh wait, that's what they're doing every time we pay them $15 a month or $10 for a pet or $25 for a mount.

[Aesctaa]

I like 10 and 25 sharing the same loot.

I don't really like them sharing the same lockout though.

Badge change seems fine.

[Falaras]

Like I said before I think the big thing about this change is the filling certain slots while only raiding 10 mans won't be impossible. Look at the trinket Slot right now, the best 10 man trinkets a Mage can get are: Eye of broodmother + Heroic Muradins Spyglass. Broodmother is 2 raids behind and almost 500 DPS under DFO/Phylac/Reign. I'm no melee but ICC 10 also contains only Whispering Fang Skull, and TOC10 doesn't contain a decent melee trinket, so you are stucking using: 60 Frost badge trinkets which take away from your 2/4 piece, Triumph trinkets that are terrible, or Ulduar/Naxx trinkets which are also terrible compared to anything from ICC.
While if you raid 25 you get 1 trinket from ToC 25, 1 trinket from ToGC 25, 2-3 Trinkets from ICC 25. Hell looking at it from a mage perspective even Ulduar 25 (Vezax HM) drops a trinket that shits all over everything you can get from 10s.

[Eaglestrike]

I hope they continue to put ring/trinket/ranged items from emblem vendors. It just makes things so much better because it allows them to specialize a bit (for ranged slots) without fucking up loot pools as well as give you a solid option for one of the double-slots (ring/trinket). Well, unless you're a caster and don't need 7.5% hit.