Xenoblade | Definitive Edition (NSW)

[xopher]

Yeah, the gameplay was ass... that's why I can't call it top-tier.
When a video game plays like ass then in my eyes it is a failure no matter how good the story is. It should be a book or movie instead.

This coming from the guy with Nichijou in his sig. Oh wait that makes sense. You obviously don't give a shit about plot.

We're done here. Back to discussing Xenoblade.

[Charismatic]

Yes, for a game plot is completely unnecessary.
Early games didn't even have them and were still good or are you going to say Super Mario Bros. is a bad game?

When a game skimps on the necessary parts that is when it is no longer a good game.

[sade3437]

pfft princess kidnapped by a ninja turtle, you eat shrooms and flowers to gain power, and you get trolled over and over by a talking toadstool. I'd say that's an epic plot.

[xopher]

Yes, for a game plot is completely unnecessary.
Early games didn't even have them and were still good or are you going to say Super Mario Bros. is a bad game?

When a game skimps on the necessary parts that is when it is no longer a good game.

Super Mario Bros. wasn't an RPG.

Sorry, but story is most important in a JRPG.

[Charismatic]

Why?

[Charismatic]

What is required to make a good video game does not change dependent on genre.

3 things are required to make a good game:

Visuals that are easy to understand (this is why old roguelikes are hard for many people to play)
Solid/Fun gameplay mechanics
An objective

Those are literally the only things that are needed, story in JRPGs is just an expansion on the need for a game to have an objective. It's a fancy way of saying the princess is in another castle go find her.

[Lucavi]

Why?

Because Xopher's word is law. Fool.

I mean, shit, just look at those PC specs. The guy is legit. Don't even let him try to convince you that its a SS from a year ago; he's just being modest.

[xopher]

What is required to make a good video game does not change dependent on genre.

3 things are required to make a good game:

Visuals that are easy to understand (this is why old roguelikes are hard for many people to play)
Solid/Fun gameplay mechanics
An objective

Those are literally the only things that are needed, story in JRPGs is just an expansion on the need for a game to have an objective. It's a fancy way of saying the princess is in another castle go find her.

Opinion and conjecture.

[Charismatic]

Name a single good game without those things.
I can name several lacking other elements such a story, music, good graphics, etc. (although the point about music could be proven easily enough without even listing a game since muting a game doesn't suddenly make it bad)


Games that are considered good by the community at large (even if I don't agree in some cases)

[xopher]

Name a single good game without those things.
I can name several lacking other elements such a story, music, good graphics, etc.

Games that are considered good by the community at large (even if I don't agree in some cases)

How about the opposite. I can name a game that millions of people play that doesn't have any of those things.

WoW.

Also trying to name a game without an objective is dumb. Every single game has an objective except for maybe Noby Noby Boy and LSD.

[Charismatic]

WoW.

What..?

[xopher]

What..?

Bad game man.

But seriously, let's end this diversion before this thread gets locked. It doesn't deserve that.

[Charismatic]

I can't really understand what you're saying here. Do you claim that WoW has visuals that are hard to understand? (which it doesn't, this is why it is so accessible to millions of players).
Do you claim that it doesn't have solid/fun gameplay mechanics? The fact that it's revolutionized the genre argues with that all by itself.
Do you claim that the game has no objective? Hell, it has hundreds if not thousands of them. Each quest is a new objective.

You're failing hard already.

[xopher]

I can't really understand what you're saying here. Do you claim that WoW has visuals that are hard to understand? (which it doesn't, this is why it is so accessible to millions of players).
Do you claim that it doesn't have solid/fun gameplay mechanics? The fact that it's revolutionized the genre argues with that all by itself.
Do you claim that the game has no objective? Hell, it has hundreds if not thousands of them. Each quest is a new objective.

You're failing hard already.

Like I said, that's all opinion and conjecture. I don't agree with any of it except the objective part because of reasons I stated earlier.

I'm done with this discussion since it no longer has anything to do with Xenoblade and the fact that you can't comprehend the fact that people have different opinions than you.

[Kaylia]

Many? Such as?
I recognize that there's some things that may fit the bill but I certainly cannot think of many.

How immersive the world is for one. Movies and books rarely (read it: never) let you explore the universe at your own speed, and they won't have sidestory or small tidbits on the way to support the main story. As linear as Xenosaga might have been, the world we explored is still an important element that couldn't exist under a different format, and it was very rewarding to looks around and learn about the mysteries.

Secondly, despite what people say, all three XS had relatively challenging fights at some point. This struggle in my opinion is also very important, because it strengthen your attachment toward the characters and settings. The same could be said about all the grinding and stats customization.

Another thing to consider is that gameplay will rarely translate well to other formats, especially when you're exploring mysterious place or stuff like this.

Spoiler: show

It might not be the best example (dont want to spend 1 hour looking for the best video), but how can you reproduce the mood of a dungeon like this in a standard movie or boos? I know it wouldn't be the same. The trashed durandal in the background wouldn't be as meaningful if I hadn't spend countless hours there, that great track playing wouldn't works well in a movie, and the pacing would need to be much faster.

What I'm trying to say here is that story in a game probably couldn't be told as well in a book or a movie. In this case, I believe that despite its flaws, the gameplay helped the story, and the story is why we all played this game. I'm not saying it was great, or even above the average rpg, but it still had its place as a game.

[edit]
And if you had watched Xenosaga anime, you would be happy that there was also a game.

[Xno Kappa]

Plus XenoSaga III had motherfucking Id Omega! How can you hate on that?

[Charismatic]

Actually, Kaylia, I can agree with most of what you just said there with the exception of the gameplay helping the story. I especially disagree with that statement in regards to the second episode but I do see where you're coming from with that. It's possible that the Xenosaga series was better off as a series of games rather than a series of books, movies, a TV show or what have you but unfortunately I don't think we'll know for sure.

There was a Xenosaga anime but it didn't have the production values of the game nor did it even consistently follow the game's story content so I'm not sure whether I'd even want to judge that one but I'll say for certain that the presentation of the story and characters was vastly inferior to that of the games.

[Kaylia]

What is required to make a good video game does not change dependent on genre.

3 things are required to make a good game:

Visuals that are easy to understand (this is why old roguelikes are hard for many people to play)
Solid/Fun gameplay mechanics
An objective

Those are literally the only things that are needed, story in JRPGs is just an expansion on the need for a game to have an objective. It's a fancy way of saying the princess is in another castle go find her.

The only thing a game need is a certain degree of interaction with the players, and this could range from turning a switch to on, to controlling a planes using 50 buttons.

Saying a gameplay has to be fun is incredibly relative, because it has a wide spectrum of meaning for different players. Personally, exploration is the aspect I enjoy the most in a game. It doesnt matter if its a rpg, a fps, a side scroller, or a point and click adventure, all I want is to visit pretty place.

Are you saying the game I enjoy are not games because they don't match the omplexity level you're expecting from a game?

[Charismatic]

No, there is a reason we have different genres of gaming, Kaylia.
A good game will have good mechanics for the genre, plain and simple.

[sade3437]

anyways all bitching aside anyone find a leak yet?