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  1. #141
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    Only thing I can see it being useful for is a Miser type situation where you want to stop it from going to a pool to regen.

  2. #142
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    I don't think I would count on something like a boss being susceptible to Holmgang.

    At best, it's for holding an add where it can't touch anyone while you focus on a boss (during the Sastasha boss fight, for example).

  3. #143

    Quote Originally Posted by lancaster View Post
    It could be usable in a hate reset situation (none exist in beta 3 thus far), but invaluable? If a cure, autoattack, or overzealous WS lands a split-second after the hate reset and you've bound yourself, you're going to need an Esuna. You can use Tomahawk, but at substantially lower enmity than if you were in your enmity combo at melee range. It's very situational.
    ...huh?

    The point would be to use it after a hate reset....so the mob is bound right next to you. Why would you need Esuna?

  4. #144
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    If a cure, autoattack, or overzealous WS lands a split-second after the hate reset and you've bound yourself, you're going to need an Esuna.
    -- because the boss will move, shift, etc.

  5. #145

    Not.....if.....it's.........bound?

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by lancaster View Post
    -- because the boss will move, shift, etc.
    autoattack, or overzealous WS lands a split-second
    Hate reset -> Holmgang -> boss gets hit, losing bind -> you are still bound -> ???

    I'm not really sure why you're arguing about this. Yes, you could still use it after a hate reset, but there are issues with the skill, which means...it's situational.

  7. #147

    I assumed the bind effect wouldn't be broken by damage considering it specifies that it lasts 6 seconds, which is just long enough to get most of a combo off, or all of a Skull Sunder combo (ie. enmity combo).

  8. #148
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    Or a Tomahawk and a party that isn't bads.

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carraway View Post
    Hate reset -> Holmgang -> boss gets hit, losing bind -> you are still bound -> ???

    I'm not really sure why you're arguing about this. Yes, you could still use it after a hate reset, but there are issues with the skill, which means...it's situational.
    Seems like Holmgang is an unbreakable bind. Using it on a mob, bind would remain whether I hit it or someone else did.

  10. #150
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    Okay, thanks for the clarification. That does make it better than I estimated.

  11. #151
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    That said tanking Ifrit on WAR in the beta was pretty fun, total confidence booster.
    The level20 ifrit fight? I did that without a tank, 2 lancer archer CONJ, that shouldn't really give you any indication of whether or not MRD is a good tank. Is there even anything to tank? All his damage is conal or AOE, and the entire mechanic is to kill the tetter thingy before he hellfires. What exactly do you tank? Seems like an AOE avoidance fight and no actual tanking besides facing the mob away from everyone.

    There hasn't been a game in history of games where VIT/Defense were ever important.
    The difference between cloth and plate in terms of defense is gigantic, you take so much less damage. Also pure defensive stats were the best stats for tanking in WOW durning vanilla - > WOTLK. Pretty sure the same was true for rift, SWTOR, etc.

  12. #152
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    The only use of Ifrit fight, is to see who don't pay attention (aka who stays on ifrit when nail pop)

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    I'll rescind my statement the day I decide to wear a piece of armor with more defense instead of more STR.

    Considering the comparison would be between Paladin and Warrior and not Warrior and White Mage...your argument is kinda silly.

    And I'd rather have a Death Knight than some shit turtle tank.

    Edit: Which is a nice segue into the stupidity of Defense over HP in the majority of situations and why people often mistake the usefulness of one or the other.

    Defense is a stat that usually reduces your damage taken, while HP is a stat that protects you from burst damage - yada yada, no shit. Having an extra 100VIT equipped for a dungeon where the largest amount of damage you could take in one hit is 3500 (less than your normal HP, by far) is a waste of stats. Similarly, having an extra 500 Defense doesn't really help you if you can no longer hold hate (lack of damage) or your party could cure through taking a bit more damage to do more deeps (ideal).

    If you had 4300HP were being hit for 4000 damage by some ability and 500 Defense made you take 10% less damage from it, you would take 3600 damage and have 700HP remaining. If you had 4300HP and were being hit for 4000 damage by some ability and had an extra 100VIT you would be hit for 4000 damage and have 1100HP remaining (4300+800). All that matters is being able to survive the burst, anyone who beat Ifrit X knows this, anyone who has played RvR should know this, etc.

    I don't see it being very likely bosses will hit harder than Warrior can mitigate by hitting Defiance. I say this because while Paladin still has more tools in the bag to stay alive, it's not as big a gap as 1.0 was even sans Rampage. If it's so powerful a Warrior can't tank it, I don't think a Paladin will fare much better.

  14. #154
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    Churchill has never played a MMO other than FF11, GW2, or neverwinter, three(neverwinter is just..in beta and enmity just doesn't work and asstral field is complete broken, basically ff11 level of shit fucked tank/healer/dps system) MMO's that don't use tanks. That's ok, the majority(literally 95%+) of mmo's use tanks with full defensive stats and full defensive gear to stop them from being 1-2 shot by bosses. If you did not have enough Defense(not armor, defense, a seperate stat)(or resilience for druids) to not be crit in WOW TBC + vanilla, and enough block to not be crushing blowed(TBC), you would die in 2 hits. DPS in WOW died in 2-3 hits to bosses if they ever pulled hate. In WOTLK, bosses did so much burst damage constantly you needed to gear full stam(vit/hp) as a tank in order for your healers to keep you alive by spam healing you. DPS also got 1-2 shot here too.

    Not much Rift experience past 1.0, but we used full def stacked/geared tanks to clear all heroics and the first raid, green something, and bosses 1-2 shot DPS.

    For low level though, I agree that tanks aren't actually required, nothing hits very hard and most of the mechanics are either things you can easily dodge/telegraph, or AOE's that you don't want to stand in no matter what class you're playing. This is low level though, and supposed to be a tutorial for new players. However, defense greatly reduces damage by insane amounts in this game, and the difference between a cloth and a plate class is very noticable. Not like FF11 where def barely mattered and NW where astral shield let anyone tank, not even going to get into GW2 because it's not a holy trinity game and does not have tanks.

    The only use of Ifrit fight, is to see who don't pay attention (aka who stays on ifrit when nail pop)
    Ifrit fight is fantastic, really fun as a healer and a nice way to teach players more complex boss mechanics. Love it.

  15. #155
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    idk, I seemed to tank fine on my death knight in DPS spec for anything but heroic

    oh that wasn't on your list. which game are you gonna be bad at after you quit xiv?

  16. #156

    Defiance boosts your max HP by 25% while Shield Oath reduces damage taken by 25%.

    Nothing to input about which tank is better since there's really nothing to tank yet, just funny given the HP/DEF comparison.

    Tho I would say PLD definitely has an advantage as far as damage reduction goes, between Sword Oath, Rampart, Sentinel, Bulwark, the -STR effect from Savage Blade.

    Looking at WAR's skills it's clearly meant to be a high HP blood tank, they have numerous skills that increase HP and Storm's Eye even increases HP recovered by cures while they have no skills that directly decrease damage taken aside from Foresight, which is +DEF rather than -DT% like PLD's skills.

  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
    idk, I seemed to tank fine on my death knight in DPS spec for anything but heroic

    oh that wasn't on your list. which game are you gonna be bad at after you quit xiv?
    Raids are the only challenging content in wow, of course you can tank incredibly easy content as a dps. You should be able to tank heroics as DPS too once you outgear them. You can never tank current level capped content as a DPS, because they're designed to be hard.

    Unless you mean non-heroic raids? I doubt that's possible, and no one did it TBC -> wrath, unless you mean raids from previous expansions you outlevel.

  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niiro View Post
    Storm's Eye even increases HP recovered by cures
    Storms Eye actually decreases the HP recovered by the target of the Storms Eye debuff. Storms Eye doesn't add a buff on you. I was confused by that too, until I used it.

  19. #159

    Ah, I misread it, the description is accurate I just didn't read it clearly and assumed it was meant to give a tanking bonus.

  20. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
    idk, I seemed to tank fine on my death knight in DPS spec for anything but heroic

    oh that wasn't on your list. which game are you gonna be bad at after you quit xiv?
    She's not wrong in terms of raiding content with her given example. You would have gotten 2-shotted by any boss worth its salt with that mindset.

    Your mindset absolutely works for the games you've listed (or, at the very least, I don't know enough about 1.0's end-game settings to disagree), but your DPS spec death knight isn't doing shit in a raid boss as any sort of tank with that mindset. Crushing blows existed to counter your exact mindset on the subject. Its what stopped an over-geared DPS from replacing a true tank spec in a raid setting and it was brutally, brutally effective.

    That said, I fucking love Mrd in this game. I don't know about the end-game aspect of it, and I could really give two shits about it, but the class feels heavy and fun and brings the pain right now, and that's enough for me. I'll let the hardcores without jobs spend all their time lobbying and whining for .05% adjustments to their favorite classes against X or Y encounter. I'm just going to keep burying my axe and fists into opponents.

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