Abyssea NM Weaknesses

[Not Kuno]

Stop arguing about the fucking colors.

[NynJa]

Here I'll try something less vile. Seriously 0/2? Get ready for 1/15ish with TH unless of course you're after the RNG backpiece, then you'll get like 10 of them. Drop rate on grape feet fucking sucks, don't cry over 0/2.

Really? I'm 1/2 on them, and I want the mantle

[FailureMidgard]

http://i37.tinypic.com/mbpbgm.jpg

Left is Green, middle is red, right is purple

/argument

Let's just go with bubbly--slanty--blocky since we all know nobody will ever agree on colors!

[Shadida]

Got red ! using Hot Shot on one of these guys:

[link deleted]

[Pruviant]

Got red ! using Hot Shot on one of these guys:

I lol'd

[Phraust]

I'd like to thank whoever finally just pulled up the model viewer animations, but it was Urat. So I will thank FailureMidgard instead.

Thanks Failure!

[Skeelo]

Got the blue !! on chasmic hornet. With Gekko. Full drops. Fought him about 2hrs later and gekko did not give !!. Didnt think to look at time or moon, so i know this doesnt help much. Just wanted to be a cool kid and throw in my 2cents.

[Thorny]

apparently Lulush's Foot Kick is marked with a blue icon, though I dunno, never used it.

It's nonelemental on blue mage spell list.

Skillchain Property: Detonation (Wind)

Not sure how that can be ice based, but I don't have lulush jugs or BST76. Lulush does have snow cloud, which IS ice based, maybe the BST just glanced at their ability list?

Stone IV on firesday got a yellow/green bubbly !! on Mictlantlecuhtli(2 habits, cuffs, corse robe, some shitty gem, no atma, already had abyssite so dont know).

[Kilik]

First Eve of the night:

Red !! - Shadow of Death - Atma
Blue !! - Blade: Ku - Hachimaki, Ocelot Gloves, Danzo Sune-Ate

[Karbuncle]

Foot Kick is White, non-elemental. its a physical weaponskill.

Your friend probably couldn't tell the difference between Snow Cloud and Foot Kick :\

[Tekni]

Finally Able to post this. Got a blue !! on lugarhoo from Arching Arrow.
No idea what it dropped as our 5 man group ended up wiping.
Jps that took it said nothing dropped but idk if they are trustworthy.

[NynJa]

blue !! on Admanstor via Arching Arrow, lightsday

[orson]

Finally Able to post this. Got a blue !! on lugarhoo from Arching Arrow.
No idea what it dropped as our 5 man group ended up wiping.
Jps that took it said nothing dropped but idk if they are trustworthy.

If it's anything like TH losing hate may remove the "debuff."

[Kushman]

Freezebite on Chukwa yielded red !! and Atma dropped.

[NynJa]

So, presuming the day/element theory is entirely debunked...I'll presume that everyone here has been on a PC long enough to know that random is never truly random. But since a mob can only spawn with 1 weakness from 3 categories at any given time (presuming it even will have all 3 weaknesses at once), does it pick from an entire pool of possibility, or from whats actively available? Did that make sense?

Is a mobs weaknesses determined on pop or on claim (the former only applies to free spawning NM's of course)?
Presuming its upon claim, does its weakness get determined by:
1-a full list of what can trigger it?
2-restricted to whats available in the claiming alliance? (a trio group of sam(gkt) rdm(staff) thf(dagger) will never spawn a mob with an elemental weakness to red lotus).
3-Restricted to what the claiming alliance CAN do (same as above, may spawn weak to burning blade as thf with sword can use it)

Unless I missed it, has a Relic/Mythic/-strikethru-Quested-- ws been a WS trigger yet?
EDIT: ignore quested, I've seen Evis and Asuran trigger em.

[Onorgul]

So, presuming the day/element theory is entirely debunked...I'll presume that everyone here has been on a PC long enough to know that random is never truly random. But since a mob can only spawn with 1 weakness from 3 categories at any given time (presuming it even will have all 3 weaknesses at once), does it pick from an entire pool of possibility, or from whats actively available? Did that make sense?

Is a mobs weaknesses determined on pop or on claim (the former only applies to free spawning NM's of course)? Presuming its upon claim, does its weakness get determined by:

I wonder what's on Nynja's word-of-the-day calendar.

And while it is true that "random" doesn't strictly exist in computer programming, don't fall into the trap our brains set of insisting that there is also a pattern. All the data presented so far points to a simple random number generator attached to each NM such that landing on X or Y or Z at pull results in A, B, and C weaknesses. At best we might hope that they're always grouped (e.g., Gust Slash-Savage Blade-Thunder III as a possible weakness set), but nothing says that they must be determined by a logical pattern or trigger. This is FFXI, it is built on irritating and punishing RNGs. Just look at upgrading Abyssite. There's no rhyme or reason to when it changes color and, moreover, there's no explanation of why it should require more than one kill to do it. That's just how SE writes their games.

Continue compiling data, but I'll bet there's no discernible pattern to weaknesses. Abyssea seems to have been built around the idea of bringing everyone to an event (as evidenced by the variety of lights and the interplay necessary among them), so it would hardly be unexpected that SE would try to force NM-killing alliances to bring a dagger class, a sword class, a staff class, a Ninja, a Samurai, a Black Mage, and a variety of other melee. I wish I could find that quote of someone a few months back who basically laid out the reality of how this game has been designed. It's in someone's sig around here, but it basically boils down to "SE are sadists and we're gluttonous masochists."

[NynJa]

Abyssea seems to have been built around the idea of bringing everyone to an event (as evidenced by the variety of lights and the interplay necessary among them), so it would hardly be unexpected that SE would try to force NM-killing alliances to bring a dagger class, a sword class, a staff class, a Ninja, a Samurai, a Black Mage, and a variety of other melee.

Lets say you bring one of every job, theres 18 spots in an alliance, presuming its ENTIRELY random...even if you fill all 18 spots with one of every job...if SE's RNG picks Asuran Fists, and theres no mnk in the alliance, you cant use Asuran Fists.

I'm aware SE's a bunch of sadists, but with the exception of AV and pre-nerf PW, SE never gives an unattainable goal.

[Obsidian]

Lets say you bring one of every job, theres 18 spots in an alliance, presuming its ENTIRELY random...even if you fill all 18 spots with one of every job...if SE's RNG picks Asuran Fists, and theres no mnk in the alliance, you cant use Asuran Fists.

I'm aware SE's a bunch of sadists, but with the exception of AV and pre-nerf PW, SE never gives an unattainable goal.

MNK can use Staff and H2H. Why bring a WHM to DD when you could cover two weapons with one job?

And it's entirely possible that if you don't have a NIN and the mob's weakness turns out to be Blade: Retsu that you're boned for that kill. You always need the right jobs for success, I don't see why this is any different (except apparently needing more jobs).

[Onorgul]

I'm aware SE's a bunch of sadists, but with the exception of AV and pre-nerf PW, SE never gives an unattainable goal.

Unattainable forever? No. Unattainable for today's fight? Sure. I cannot fathom why you expect them to be kind and tailor an NM to the group that engages it. What happens if I pull something solo as Monk/Dancer, will there be no magic weakness? Yes, it'd be a relatively stupid thing to do, but it's certainly not outside the realm of possibility.

Nothing about the data thus far suggests a pattern and, even if there was one, assuming you bring a fairly balanced party, trying to sort it out is a royal pain. I don't intend to build a melee set for White Mage just so I can go down my weaponskill list on Club and Staff to find if any of them trigger a weakness and even just going through the six elemental attacks on those two weapons would be an unnecessary pain. What if you only have Red Mages, would that preclude Seraph Strike as a trigger WS? How the hell could we even find out?

You're trying very hard to force a pattern where one is not presenting itself. Until the data actually suggests a pattern, I recommend letting your hindbrain chew on it instead of arguing that there must be a pattern because there's really no reason for one to exist.

[FailureMidgard]

Computerized random numbers are random enough. You're just being naive and showing you don't even understand the concept that you're trying to discuss. Yes, there is a mathematical algorithm associated with random numbers, but the idea is you seed the RNG with a unknown/pseudo-random number to begin with, and the only time that you'll be able to predict the outcome of the generated random numbers is if you know both the algorithm and the seed. The seed can be # of milliseconds since the last hour mark (meaning that if it popped at 2:45:10:.002 it'd be the same result as 3:45:10:.002, but 2:45:10:.003 is entirely different) or any other number of things that are equally silly (random.org uses atmospheric noise and claims true randomness, but honestly that isn't truly random either...).

In fact, a dice roll is not truly random either, it's still some complex algorithm with gravity, air density and composition, wind speed, initial velocity/direction/torque/position/direction, and then some statistics about the surface it's landing on. Presumably, if the die is tossed in the exact same manner 2 times in a row with regards to the mentioned information, the exact same # would come up on the die both times.

The goal of computerized random numbers is to make it impossible for someone to guess or derive the starting conditions. It is possible to make computer-generated random numbers more random than a die. I highly doubt FFXI cares that much, but I am sure that it is random enough to be considered random for all intents and purposes.


More on topic, I highly doubt that it checks your equipped weapons and such, and from what I've heard and gathered, weakness is still only a chance to proc anyway, making this very hard to test. That being said, we've tried to get Atmas quite a few times, cycling through every elemental WS we had available to no success (while also covering at least 1 of every unique element). If it were related to the claimer, I would be more inclined to think it would just be related to the single person that claimed it, but I have absolutely no data to support or refute this, it's just a pattern they seem to use a bit, and seems far easier to deal with from a programming PoV.