Control Schemes

[ascalon]

So I've just submitted a big wad of feedback on the current control schemes in the beta, and thought I'd copy the post over here as well to see if I've missed anything as well as to get feedback from other testers:

CONTROL SCHEMES FEEDBACK

So I have had a play around with what I can see are the four main possible setups for controls current in the beta, based on moving one's hands as little as possible. Here are my PROs and CONs of each.

1: WASD + MOUSE

PROs
- Familiar to most PC gamers
- Intuitive movement keys
- Easy access to number keys for actions
- Theoretically intuitive camera controls (with hardware mouse)
- Easy access to spacebar for initiating conversations
- Easy access to most hotkeys without moving hands
- Easy access to Ctl and Alt keys for macro initiation

CONs
- No easy access to main menu (Esc doesn’t work)
- Mouse control is software and thus dependent on many things. Inaccurate.
- No ability to switch between action bars from default hand position. (Big issue!)
- No way to switch between macro bars from default hand position.
- Without hardware mouse, no easily reliable way to toggle AoE/Single target spells
- Left+Right mouse button together doesn’t move your character, which is often included in other current MMO control schemes.
- No easy way of selecting enemies, friends, or party members. Mouse remains inadequate for doing so, and no F-key bindings mean you have to scroll through the whole list until you find the one you want.

Summary
This is the default setup most PC gamers expect, and while basic, it remains only barely functional. Until we get a hardware mouse, camera controls in this default setup will remain useless.
Also, without some way of switching between action bars, this setup falls very flat. Even something as simple as “Hold Shift and Use Scrollwheel” to page between bars would be perfect for the much faster pace of FFXIV’s combat.


2. WASD + IJKL

PROS
- Intuitive movement keys
- Easy access to number keys for actions
- Easy access to spacebar for initiating conversations
- Easy access to most hotkeys without moving hands
- Easy access to Ctl and Alt keys for macro initiation

CONs
- Unfamiliar keys for camera control
- Awkward/cramped position for long stretches of play
- Awkward access to arrow keys for selecting different action bars
- No easy access to main menu from default positions
- No way to toggle AoE/Single target spells
- No easy way of selecting enemies, friends, or party members. Mouse remains inadequate for doing so, and no F-key bindings mean you have to scroll through the whole list until you find the one you want.

Summary
While not an essentially flawed scheme, the inclusion of IJKL for camera controls makes this scheme unfamiliar and cramped for most keyboard users. It also ignores the mouse, the most precise and familiar control device any PC gamer will have in their basic setup.


3. NUMPAD + ARROW KEYS

PROs
- A setup familiar to players of FFXI
- Intuitive movement via numpad keys
- Easy access to main menu
- Easy access to multiple action bars via Arrow Keys + right hand thumb
- Easy access to all actions via left hand
- Easy access to shortcut keys via left hand
- Easy access to macro keys (Ctrl/Alt) by left hand

CONs
- Lack of decent camera controls. Can’t use mouse with right hand. IJKL awkward and unfamiliar for left hand to find when needed.
- No way to toggle AoE/Single target spells
- No easy way of selecting enemies, friends, or party members. Mouse remains inadequate for doing so, and no F-key bindings mean you have to scroll through the whole list until you find the one you want.

Summary
As a former FFXI player, I’d be pretty comfortable and happy with this setup IF the arrow keys could be used to control the camera as we are used to, as well as for selecting abilities on the action bar while in combat, though obviously having keys do two different things isn’t ideal. Again perhaps the Shift key could be used as a modifier to allow you to control the camera with the arrow keys, as it currently is unbound.


4. GAMEPAD

PROs
- Easy access to character movement
- Easy access to camera movement
- Easy access to macro keys (Ctrl/Alt)
- Easy access to action bars
- Easy access to important hotkeys and main menu

CONs
- Essentially limited by the number of buttons your gamepad has.
- Not everyone HAS a gamepad and SE should not assume so.
- Scrolling through abilities with D-Pad is not as intuitive as simply hitting the right number key on the keyboard, and is slower.
- No way to toggle AoE/Single target spells.
- Have to put the controller aside to type/communicate with other players (except if you are communicating via emotes, the menu for which can be bound to a gamepad button).
- No easy way of selecting enemies, friends, or party members. Mouse remains inadequate for doing so, and no F-key bindings mean you have to scroll through the whole list until you find the one you want.

Summary
The gamepad seems like the ‘default’ choice for a game that is being worked on as a cross-platform title, and it is the obvious answer for being the smoothest to use for most game controls. However, with FFXIV’s faster pace of combat, scrolling through abilities using the D-PAD can get fiddly and inaccurate, and the lack of easy targeting abilities coupled with the naturally limited number of buttons on even an XBOX360 wireless for Windows controller is inherently awkward for communicating with party members and others in the game world of this massively multiplayer title.

What do you think? Anything I've missed? Which setup do you prefer, or do you have another one that is different?

(Apologies if this did not deserve its own thread).

[Yakoo]

In FFXI I've played with the numbads @ keyboard but for some reasons its not the same setting in FF14 :/ So I would suggest to port directly from 11 to 14.

At the moment im playing with a xbox360 gamepad and im kinda satisfied with it...

[Manako]

I play with Gamepad, your comment that you are limited by the number of buttons is not valid because you still use your keyboard as well. I also used gamepad in FFXI, I think when I am useing my keyboard my pad rests in my lap/on my knee but its so intuitive I can't really tell you.

The main issue I have currently is setting my active abilities or looking at quests, it seems hard to navigate the menu to select the drop down without using the mouse, and often I hit "OK" on my gamepad and it does not select the traits/quest unless I hit enter on the keyboard. It seems like this aspect of the game is just really buggy, so its hard to tell how much of it is a usability issue, and how much of it is just a mess of annoying bugs.

[Lithiani]

I don't understand why there's not an unlimited ability to rebind your keys. This is especially important to me, because I use Left-Hand Bias Programmers Dvorak keyboard, so if input is hard limited to WASD, my versions of those keys are all over the place (assuming a software key detection, rather than detecting keyboard settings - this was a problem in XI for the same reason IIRC)

[ascalon]

I play with Gamepad, your comment that you are limited by the number of buttons is not valid because you still use your keyboard as well. I also used gamepad in FFXI, I think when I am useing my keyboard my pad rests in my lap/on my knee but its so intuitive I can't really tell you.

I've always sat quite close to my desk, as my screen is a fair ways back on it, so I've got my keyboard right in front of me. Thus I have to put the Gamepad to the side rather than just drop it. Its kinda awkward for me, but again that is a personal preference thing.

[Shadowcatt]

Based on today's update notes, they are planning to add camera control to the arrow keys. Yay

[vrumpt]

a very good writeup. Honestly don't know how SE expects to compete without a hardware mouse. Making WASD+Mouse default should have been their first choice, not a gamepad.

[ascalon]

a very good writeup. Honestly don't know how SE expects to compete without a hardware mouse. Making WASD+Mouse default should have been their first choice, not a gamepad.

This is my opinion. I wanted to try and at least SOUND impartial for the feedback and look at it from every angle. Hell, I don't mind the FFXI-style control scheme either. I actually thought that was great for the game.

Hopefully the arrow keys camera will fix a lot of gripes I have.

Though it still doesn't change the fact that the AoE/Solo spell lock can ONLY be switched with a mouse....

[jPuff]

Based on today's update notes, they are planning to add camera control to the arrow keys. Yay

Nice. I used WASD+arrows for 7 years in FFXI-- don't think I could live without it in XIV.

[Gokulo]

Based on today's update notes, they are planning to add camera control to the arrow keys. Yay

People need to learn how S-E updates their notes. These are not "today's". Added today were only the issues with today's date above them. Rest of that stuff is there since start of Phase 3 and god knows when will they implement that. (the long list in phase 2 wasn't implemented until phase 3, but I think they will start releasing patches more often now, or so I hope...)

[Hyan]

a very good writeup. Honestly don't know how SE expects to compete without a hardware mouse. Making WASD+Mouse default should have been their first choice, not a gamepad.

Why do you think they expect that?

[Shadowcatt]

People need to learn how S-E updates their notes. These are not "today's". Added today were only the issues with today's date above them. Rest of that stuff is there since start of Phase 3 and god knows when will they implement that. (the long list in phase 2 wasn't implemented until phase 3, but I think they will start releasing patches more often now, or so I hope...)

People need to read posts better... I said they were *planning on* including it. That doesn't mean they were implemented today.

[Lazytowner]

Apparently it's not their goal to do so, but convincing a large group of already biased players from other MMOs to play Square Enix's next game won't have any effect when they say it'll be developed primarily for the PC and still try to apply shit gamepad controls on a keyboard.

It has nothing to do with the tradition of FFXI -- it's just lazy. PC users have a mouse and keyboard, every one of them. If this PC version of the game was meant to be played on the PC then why are we playing on the keyboard only like it's one oversized retard-mode NES d-pad?


This of course comes off as me being a bitchy smartass, but seriously, I would like this fucking explained. Please.

[Gokulo]

People need to read posts better... I said they were *planning on* including it. That doesn't mean they were implemented today.

You don't understand me. You said "basing on today's update notes" and I'm telling you the part about camera control is there in planned adjustment since start of P3, and up until now "planned adjustments" didn't really happen until they went to next phase. But since next phase will be OB, and release is getting closer and closer, I hope that will change and we will get updates more often.

[Honorable]

This of course comes off as me being a bitchy smartass, but seriously, I would like this fucking explained. Please.

^

[hagun]

Apparently it's not their goal to do so, but convincing a large group of already biased players from other MMOs to play Square Enix's next game won't have any effect when they say it'll be developed primarily for the PC and still try to apply shit gamepad controls on a keyboard.

It has nothing to do with the tradition of FFXI -- it's just lazy. PC users have a mouse and keyboard, every one of them. If this PC version of the game was meant to be played on the PC then why are we playing on the keyboard only like it's one oversized retard-mode NES d-pad?


This of course comes off as me being a bitchy smartass, but seriously, I would like this fucking explained. Please.

SE is still stuck in 2000 or maybe even worse. To me 14 feels too much like 11. I have no desire to play the same thing I've been playing for nearly a decade. One of my gripes remains that SE still seems to insist on doing things the outdated way.

[ascalon]

For me, many thinks DO feel like an improvement in XI. Combat, certainly, is more fun, faster-paced, more tactical and reactive.

However, things like targetting are actually WORSE. I understand that we don't have F1, F2, F3 and so on for party members because there are up to 15 players in a party and we don't have that many F keys, but seriously, we NEED a way to target party members - even if its clicking their names in the party window with the mouse. But of course THAT leaves out gamepad users. And its impossible with the software mouse anyways.

If this isn't sorted, HOW are Thaum/Conj supposed to react quickly enough to heal people?!

Oh, and fishing and synthing sucks ass. Botanist and Miner are kinda fun though once you get going. Synthing and fishing are slooooooooooooooow.

[Manako]

However, things like targetting are actually WORSE. I understand that we don't have F1, F2, F3 and so on for party members because there are up to 15 players in a party and we don't have that many F keys, but seriously, we NEED a way to target party members - even if its clicking their names in the party window with the mouse. But of course THAT leaves out gamepad users. And its impossible with the software mouse anyways.

In ffxi using the gamepad you could press up/down on the D-Pad to move through your party members. I haven't been in a party yet, so I do not know if it works the same way in FFXIV, but pressing L or R does tab through characters. Typically moving up and down was good enough, unless it was something where a tank really needed attention and then I just made specific Macros to target them.

[Lithiani]

Apparently it's not their goal to do so, but convincing a large group of already biased players from other MMOs to play Square Enix's next game won't have any effect when they say it'll be developed primarily for the PC and still try to apply shit gamepad controls on a keyboard.

It has nothing to do with the tradition of FFXI -- it's just lazy. PC users have a mouse and keyboard, every one of them. If this PC version of the game was meant to be played on the PC then why are we playing on the keyboard only like it's one oversized retard-mode NES d-pad?


This of course comes off as me being a bitchy smartass, but seriously, I would like this fucking explained. Please.

I actually really like XIs control system and have tried to replicate it wherever possible in other online games... I happen to think it's an excellent system, with Thumb-Camera controls for the cam and freehand for movement working really well.

However I completely accept that if S-E wants this game to work they need to have an adaptable control bind system which players can tailor to suit their taste.

[Lazytowner]

However I completely accept that if S-E wants this game to work they need to have an adaptable control bind system which players can tailor to suit their taste.

Yes, it's this bullshit "TAKE IT OR REAVE IT!" attitude SE and every Japanese game developer has with its playerbase that puts me in a rage.

Next up: Konami releases it's first multiplayer online fps for the PC, AND WE USE THE FUCKING NUMPAD TO AIM. *facepalm facepalm facepalm facepalm*

Anyone trying to defend the lack of flexibility with the controls needs to sign up for the Square Enix Defense Force, because again -- there is absolutely no excuse for it in the gaming market of 2010 and on.

The gameplay and the environments look amazing, and I can't tell you how excited I am to play this from release, but oh wow these controls are fucking pathetic.