What's Better?

[matix]

cool, and thankies, i was hesitant to VV with kc cause of the DA would slow kraken a bit, but i figure that the regain and bigger numbers makeup for the loss anyways~

[Tsuko_Asura]

I don't see how either Stout Arm or Voracious Violet could compete with Razed Ruins(hell if I know which you'd replace). KC TP damage is minor, but still a part of the bigger picture, and Razed Ruins is going to do a hell of a lot more to boost it. Couple that with(unless I'm mistaken) RR + Arching being comparable or better than <STR/Rattk Atma> + Sidewinder, and I don't see how it'd even be contestable.

Edit: There's also the additional 25 accuracy to consider. RNG club hit-rate is still garbage without a lot of help.

[FailureMidgard]

cool, and thankies, i was hesitant to VV with kc cause of the DA would slow kraken a bit, but i figure that the regain and bigger numbers makeup for the loss anyways~

Out of curiosity, whats a usual WS/TP split look like for a KC rng on a parse? Past that, are you capping accuracy on your melee hits always?

[matix]

like 90% ws/barrage 10% melee, melee acc is 85-90~(pulled those from some random recent abyssea parse), in terms of my kraken, im plenty satisfied with how much tp im getting, im looking to maximize ws dmg though so im trying to find out if im better to crit my AArrows and barrage(which is real nice if i get a relic proc) and use RR over spamming sides etc.. with str/ratk atmas

[Tsuko_Asura]

Can you actually post one of these parses, and what they're against? Seems like a whole lot of guessing about something that should be written in black and white.

[FailureMidgard]

like 90% ws/barrage 10% melee, melee acc is 85-90~(pulled those from some random recent abyssea parse), in terms of my kraken, im plenty satisfied with how much tp im getting, im looking to maximize ws dmg though so im trying to find out if im better to crit my AArrows and barrage(which is real nice if i get a relic proc) and use RR over spamming sides etc.. with str/ratk atmas

"I'm satisfied with how much tp I'm getting" is nowhere near a valid statement. Yes, KC TP return is random, so is accuracy, and increasing accuracy will without a doubt allow you to WS more often. Also, you should have included barrage in melee damage, not WS damage for the split (as it benefits from crit). Really fast and inaccurate math though says no matter what WS you use, RR is still the correct atma....

[blowfin]

What's going to be a better sub at 90 for bst? Subbing DNC for Haste Samba or NIN for Dual Wield III?

[Tsuko_Asura]

"I'm satisfied with how much tp I'm getting" is nowhere near a valid statement. Yes, KC TP return is random, so is accuracy, and increasing accuracy will without a doubt allow you to WS more often. Also, you should have included barrage in melee damage, not WS damage for the split (as it benefits from crit). Really fast and inaccurate math though says no matter what WS you use, RR is still the correct atma....

Its probably not ideal, but its pretty amusing to think about a KC RNG using RR + Dunes(STP+20). With pretty reasonable gear, a COR, and a DNC, you can get KC down to the upper 50's in delay, while getting ~14 TP/hit with a SAM in the party. 7-hit KC is lol.

[Kidnoftle]

What's going to be a better sub at 90 for bst? Subbing DNC for Haste Samba or NIN for Dual Wield III?

/dnc if noone else in the pt has haste samba, /nin otherwise I would imagine.

[FailureMidgard]

What's going to be a better sub at 90 for bst? Subbing DNC for Haste Samba or NIN for Dual Wield III?

/dnc if noone else in the pt has haste samba, /nin otherwise I would imagine.

15>25 DW is an increase of 13.33% attack speed.

Assuming 25% haste on gear, double march and haste (62%), 5% additional haste is an increase of 15.15% attack speed (and no TP loss).

Confirming this doesn't break the delay reduction cap : .85*.33=.2805, which is >.2.
So, assuming you're talking about an ally situation (and by that, I mean having a single bard), haste samba is higher personal DPS than the extra dual wield alone...that being said, if someone else is /dnc already, no real reason to have 2....

If you're talking without any support, /nin will be a larger increase in attack rate, but I'd base your choice on other factors really.

[matix]

Really fast and inaccurate math though says no matter what WS you use, RR is still the correct atma....

this was pretty much what i wanted to know, one question, was how big of a difference was there in the math between the 2 ws's?

[FailureMidgard]

this was pretty much what i wanted to know, one question, was how big of a difference was there in the math between the 2 ws's?

I didn't even touch the WSes, I'm saying increase in WS rate + increase in barrage damage + increase in lolkcdmg alone shoud do more for you than VV will, even if you use sidewinder. I'm not going to give exact #s unless you give me more exact #s to work with first.

[matix]

Damage Summary
Player               Total Dmg   Damage %   Melee Dmg   Range Dmg   Abil. Dmg  WSkill Dmg   Spell Dmg  Other Dmg
Alomar                   62722    21.84 %       28076           0        5744       28444           0        458
Mandlorian               75436    26.27 %       28328           0           0       46610           0        498
Matix                   103821    36.15 %        8903        1881       10010       83027           0          0
Mugin                    33180    11.55 %       20055         107        1284       11734           0          0
Qio                        347     0.12 %         347           0           0           0           0          0
Lady                      9338     3.25 %        7071           0        2267           0           0          0
SC: Compression           1448     0.50 %           0           0           0           0           0          0
SC: Fusion                  59     0.02 %           0           0           0           0           0          0
SC: Reverberation          504     0.18 %           0           0           0           0           0          0
SC: Transfixion            332     0.12 %           0           0           0           0           0          0
Total                   287187   100.00 %       92780        1988       19305      169815           0        956


Melee Damage
Player            Melee Dmg   Melee %   Hit/Miss   M.Acc %  M.Low/Hi    M.Avg  #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C.Avg     Crit%
Alomar                28076   44.76 %      177/8   95.68 %    85/217   151.38     10   238/325  279.50    5.65 %
Mandlorian            28328   37.55 %     281/24   92.13 %    43/142    91.87     32   125/222  170.38   11.39 %
Matix                  8903    8.58 %   1069/157   87.19 %      0/18     7.32    104     10/31   17.72    9.73 %
Mugin                 20055   60.44 %    478/104   82.13 %      5/58    37.87     46    53/100   80.33    9.62 %
Qio                     347  100.00 %        5/6   45.45 %     18/33    23.50      1   253/253  253.00   20.00 %
Lady                   7071   75.72 %     189/31   85.91 %     25/46    35.03     14     50/86   67.14    7.41 %


Ranged Damage
Player            Range Dmg   Range %   Hit/Miss   R.Acc %  R.Low/Hi    R.Avg  #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C.Avg     Crit%
Matix                  1881    1.81 %        8/2   80.00 %   202/273   235.13      0       0/0    0.00    0.00 %
Mugin                   107    0.32 %        1/0  100.00 %   107/107   107.00      0       0/0    0.00    0.00 %


Other Physical Damage  (Counterattacks and Retaliations)
Player            CA.Dmg  CA.Hit/Miss  CA.Low/Hi  CA.Avg   Ret.Dmg  Ret.Hit/Miss  Ret.Low/Hi  Ret.Avg
Alomar               458          4/0    100/134  114.50         0           0/0         0/0     0.00
Mandlorian           498          5/0     85/131   99.60         0           0/0         0/0     0.00


Weaponskill Damage
Player                 WSkill Dmg   WSkill %  Hit/Miss   WS.Acc %   WS.Low/Hi   WS.Avg
Alomar                      28444    45.35 %      38/0   100.00 %    320/1114   748.53
 - Drakesbane                3843    13.51 %       5/0   100.00 %     705/898   768.60
 - Penta Thrust             24601    86.49 %      33/0   100.00 %    320/1114   745.48
Mandlorian                  46610    61.79 %      55/1    98.21 %    423/1650   847.45
 - Tachi: Gekko             44147    94.72 %      52/1    98.11 %    423/1650   848.98
 - Tachi: Kasha               806     1.73 %       1/0   100.00 %     806/806   806.00
 - Tachi: Rana                558     1.20 %       1/0   100.00 %     558/558   558.00
 - Tachi: Yukikaze           1099     2.36 %       1/0   100.00 %   1099/1099  1099.00
Matix                       83027    79.97 %      63/7    90.00 %    743/1681  1317.89
 - Namas Arrow               7117     8.57 %       8/0   100.00 %    743/1030   889.63
 - Sidewinder               75910    91.43 %      55/7    88.71 %    987/1681  1380.18
Mugin                       11734    35.36 %      18/2    90.00 %     488/775   651.89
 - Slug Shot                11734   100.00 %      18/2    90.00 %     488/775   651.89


Ability Damage
Player                  Abil. Dmg    Abil. %  Hit/Miss    A.Acc %    A.Low/Hi    A.Avg
Alomar                       5744     9.16 %      28/0   100.00 %     122/445   205.14
 - High Jump                 1739    30.28 %       9/0   100.00 %     122/445   193.22
 - Jump                      4005    69.72 %      19/0   100.00 %     152/402   210.79
Mandlorian                      0     0.00 %       3/0   100.00 %         0/0     0.00
 - Blade Bash                   0     0.00 %       3/0   100.00 %         0/0     0.00
Matix                       10010     9.64 %       8/0   100.00 %    213/1586  1251.25
 - Barrage                   8579    85.70 %       7/0   100.00 %    213/1586  1225.57
 - Refulgent Arrow           1431    14.30 %       1/0   100.00 %   1431/1431  1431.00
Mugin                        1284     3.87 %       3/0   100.00 %     428/428   428.00
 - Barrage                   1284   100.00 %       3/0   100.00 %     428/428   428.00
Lady                         2267    24.28 %      27/0   100.00 %      12/209    83.96
 - Frost Breath              2255    99.47 %      26/0   100.00 %      45/209    86.73
 - Gust Breath                 12     0.53 %       1/0   100.00 %       12/12    12.00


Skillchain Damage
Skillchain          SC Dmg  # SC  SC.Low/Hi  SC.Avg
SC: Compression       1448    11     26/352  131.64
SC: Fusion              59     1      59/59   59.00
SC: Reverberation      504     5     38/165  100.80
SC: Transfixion        332     2    165/167  166.00

TP in: http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/36208

i took this from a 3melee party instead of an abyssea party because there were all sorts of nm's and stuff from the other one edited: also, i dont have any parses with the atma's on yet!, this was taken on the seaboard vultures in miseraux with madrigal/min4 and cor roll/chaos roll i was on RNG/NIN and using a genin aspis not dual weild, others were drg/sam sam/war rdm cor brd, Qio wasnt part of our party but got picked up somehow

extra question: what if we assumed im ws'ing with JR instead

[blowfin]

15>25 DW is an increase of 13.33% attack speed.

Assuming 25% haste on gear, double march and haste (62%), 5% additional haste is an increase of 15.15% attack speed (and no TP loss).

Confirming this doesn't break the delay reduction cap : .85*.33=.2805, which is >.2.
So, assuming you're talking about an ally situation (and by that, I mean having a single bard), haste samba is higher personal DPS than the extra dual wield alone...that being said, if someone else is /dnc already, no real reason to have 2....

If you're talking without any support, /nin will be a larger increase in attack rate, but I'd base your choice on other factors really.

Thanks for the detail. Yah this is more for EXP or TE farming situations. So what it boils down to is more of a "Sub DNC if nobody in the party is already, otherwise sub NIN. Then kick the /DNC in the nuts if they don't keep Haste Samba up."? BST actually seems pretty uniquely positioned to take advantage of /DNC in a party situation with Snarl available to us, can haste the party and negate the loss of shadows.

I don't know if any of this changes anything: At the moment i'm 20% haste from gear, oa2-3 magian in off hand. Probably not likely to be in a double march situation, having haste from a RDM or WHM is way more likely though. Edit: oh and my hidden shame is no suppa... yet (yes i picked abyssal for BLM before I had novio or BST 75) >.>


And yah, If I don't have support chances are i'm off solo or duo, and priorities change from mob to mob.

[Classikmage]

Ah you're right, I see ranged fSTR takes roughly twice as much STR to cap as it does to melee, I was going by how I had calculated this for my SAM. If cockatrice are around 89 VIT, then it should take 153 STR total?

So yeah you'd be getting DMG bonus from fSTR most likely when it comes to ranged attacks, how much depends on how much you had before and how much excess you end up with after VV, since you'll likely hit the fSTR cap before all 50 STR from VV.

I wonder if I'll still be fSTR capped w/o SA? GH + RR sounds tasty, but I don't think it's worth it if I dip below the cap, is it? Though next update I could keep SA, and use GH & RR as well making for a pretty nasty combo.

One thought that came up though. If I can make up the 8 STR & R attack +18 on the Bataleur +1(assuming I even need it) I wonder if it might be more viable to actually try for a WS Damage +10% or a Store TP magian bow?

EDIT: Hmmm, or possibly a Condor +1 Occ. deals double damage... hmmm.

[Darkmagi]

Matix 83027 79.97 % 63/7 90.00 % 743/1681 1317.89
- Namas Arrow 7117 8.57 % 8/0 100.00 % 743/1030 889.63
- Sidewinder 75910 91.43 % 55/7 88.71 % 987/1681 1380.18
With min4 and chaos roll....? Also the fact that you don't have marches at all is a major problem as well....

[matix]

never said it was a good party lol

[Mithrazz]

Teal Saio vs. Igqira Weskit

[Tavjon]

Teal Saio vs. Igqira Weskit

Teal

[seiji]

with arching being good in abyssea is rng a good sub again for (nonFudo) sam?
then soboroVS magian multi proc vs quint?