Tanaka blames foreign sites for rumors + XP Discussion

[Gokulo]

We all know that the Patriot Act wasn't actually patriotic, and that most titles used are complete opposites of what it advocates. SE can't come out and name it Tax XP. We all know though, that is what the system is.

I suppose it's a bonus that you get more than 0% XP. However, a bonus implies a privilege beyond what is normal. 0% isn't exactly normal, is it?

Any system which punishes the player for playing your game is idiotic, period.

Where the heck you got an idea you get 0% exp after 8 hours? And don't say beta, because it seems it wasn't working at all as it's supposed to in beta. I don't see them making you get 0exp from playing too much.

@Gokulo
Err... actually he is right (though he doesn't seem to realize it was me who originally postet that information, haha!). For each job seperately, Skill increases will actually dwindle down to very, very low levels after 8 (or rather: 16) hours of fighting (bazaaring and stuff are ok it seems).

Damn, seems I'm the one that misunderstood it then... So does that mean we start at 200% and are 100% after 8h and then 0% after 16? I don't think that sound all that bad then tbh...

[omegaB]

Where the heck you got an idea you get 0% exp after 8 hours? And don't say beta, because it seems it wasn't working at all as it's supposed to in beta. I don't see them making you get 0exp from playing too much.

i guess hes saying they are specifically adding your time in combat, otherwise it wouldnt make any sense at all. as i was saying but hey sometimes people do things that make no sense so i dunno

and yeah though i never saw it, some people saw it go down to 10% total skill, and no exp. how does this apply to crafting though, what constitutes battle for crafters? anytime your kneeling? DoL?

[SilverBreeze]

Well, the problem is not the people that have that time. The problem is that those people tend to "dominate" the whole game (economy and content-wise) to a degree that the fun remaining for the "less fortunate" takes a hit.

That makes absolutely no sense at all.

Players who play more, and can play more, aren't "grinding" the game. They're playing the game because they enjoy it. But you're saying that since these players get to play more, it causes people who can play less to enjoy the game less, so make it so the players who can play more enjoy the game less? I don't see the logic in that at all.

I'm sorry but even with kids, work, cooking, cleaning, etc I know plenty of people who can have time in their day to play more than 70 minutes a day. And if your life is THAT HECTIC that playing more than 8 hours in a WEEK is difficult for you, and a problem, maybe it's not video games that's the problem, and other people should not be punished for that.

[omegaB]

honestly this is going to make the game even more elitist, because when people killing your exp per hour, now THEY ARE REALLY KILLING YOUR EXP PER HOUR. Sorry i only want to play my conj if this is a 9k exp per hour party. This system is looking really bad, especially for casuals who dont know whats going on.


wanting to make casuals compete is one thing, but this systems logical extension when applied by people seeking to get peak efficency are going to mess up their whole intention, and thier idea of peak at 8 hours a week is pretty low.

[Suirin]

Where the heck you got an idea you get 0% exp after 8 hours? And don't say beta, because it seems it wasn't working at all as it's supposed to in beta. I don't see them making you get 0exp from playing too much.

Well, that isn't exactly what I said. Again.

1. Source: Japanese beta tester's site, note concerning "Surplus" Levels.
2. For each Job, there is a seperate pool of 8 hours.
3. During hours 8-16 each week on the same job, Job Skills will slowly diminsh to 10% (or even 0% - wording isn't overly clear)
4. I LIKE. Because: in FFXI, you constantly had to work to "catch up" with the hardcorers not to be totally left behind because you wanted to do something else than grind EXP. And you are 100% free to do that even after 16 hours. You are even free to grind for another 16 hours, just not on the same job.

@omegaB Yes, that's a valid point that also concerns me. Honestly, a lot of what SE implemened in XIV seems to be "thoroughly half-baked" (Retainer clusterfuck!).

[natethegreat]

This really just makes me wonder how much content they really do have. What would be the possible reason to do this other than a lack of content?

[Elcura]

I liked my initial impression more, which is probably how they should have done it. Though, unless party play becomes more prevalent, 8-16 hours of actual fighting seems like a very long time.

I doubt anyone with 8-16 actual hours a week to play will ever experience this, but those with much more time on their hands will. And I'm thinking they'd need a LOT more time.

Maybe SE will cave sooner or later, if the system is as bad as it sounds, hopefully it won't last until the PS3 release.

[Cadsuane]

We all know that the Patriot Act wasn't actually patriotic, and that most titles used are complete opposites of what it advocates. SE can't come out and name it Tax XP. We all know though, that is what the system is.

I suppose it's a "bonus" that you get more than 0% XP in SE's mind. However, a bonus implies a privilege beyond what is normal. 0% isn't exactly normal, is it? For example, let's take the universal notion of a Christmas bonus. Imagine now, instead that your boss said it is a bonus he is actually paying you a wage. You would think that is ridiculous right? Because it is.

Any system which punishes the player for playing your game is idiotic, period.

I think what they mean to say is that there is a normal amount of xp from a mob to which a dwindling surplus is added. ie. 200% dwindles to 100%. It's not unlike an exp ring in XI.

And like, yeah, I already know that you're a half wit, but using analogies from contemporary political issues to shore up gripes with MMO features, not to mention saying that SE is ORWELLIAN, is definitely a new low. What the fuck is wrong with you?

[Ae Cha]

This is such an awful mechanic. If you want to level the playing field, reward casuals, don't punish people who have more than 8 hours a week to play. There are dozens of MMOs with something like rested experience that work just fine at giving casuals a boost to catch up, why are they implementing this backwards system that literally discourages anyone from playing their game? It's not like this is a new problem that hasn't been solved by every other MMO developer in the last 5 years. There's innovation, and then there's making something retarded just for the sake of being different.

[omegaB]

I think what they mean to say is that there is a normal amount of xp from a mob to which a dwindling surplus is added. ie. 200% dwindles to 100%. It's not unlike an exp ring in XI.

And like, yeah, I already know that you're a half wit, but using analogies from contemporary political issues to shore up gripes with MMO features is definitely a new low.

no from beta data id say its closer to what he says, though i never saw it, other people did in fact see the you you got 10 skill points you got 1000 surplus points. I actually saw the you have 80 skill points you have 240 surplus type stuff. and it makes sense why it seemed to diminish when they took down servers, might reset your time. This systems execution is a really bad idea, on many levels.

[Rhinox]

btw we're essentially taking the word of some random that this is indeed the new system. Can we get a second opinion?

[omegaB]

if it only went down to 50% that might be workable, but 10% is madness.

puts way much planning into leveling, if i play this game past the first month i will look foward to level cap, so it will no longer matter what i play or how long i play or do it.

[Bombur]

btw we're essentially taking the word of some random that this is indeed the new system. Can we get a second opinion?

This is pretty much getting picked up by all the Jpn fan websites. It would be funny if this was another untrue rumor like the Sankaku one.

[Rothbardian]

I think what they mean to say is that there is a normal amount of xp from a mob to which a dwindling surplus is added. ie. 200% dwindles to 100%. It's not unlike an exp ring in XI.

And like, yeah, I already know that you're a half wit, but using analogies from contemporary political issues to shore up gripes with MMO features, not to mention saying that SE is ORWELLIAN, is definitely a new low. What the fuck is wrong with you?

It is totally different than a XP ring. XP rings are actually bonuses. This isn't. There is the normal XP you receive from a mob/activity (And you get XP from pretty much all activities), then after 8 hours, you get diminishing XP until it reaches 0% @ 15 hours total for each class, and globally for physical. This information was provided with source from Suirane. It isn't hard to comprehend and I'm amazed at how this isn't being grasped yet.

Well, when you call something the exact opposite of what it actually does, that is the definition of orwellian right? 0 Xp is now surplus. Gotcha. I use it because it is easy to digest, and understand. I could use some more obscure reference analogy, but it would probably be lost on most people.

Here how is this then. You have a boss that everyone hates. He names the week Happy Workers Week, and then as reward makes everyone work 15 hours more a week, and without overtime. It would become crystal clear to the workers, that this week isn't happy workers week, but pissed off workers week. This is essentially what "Surplus" XP is. It is not surplus. It is a tax. It is punishment, not reward.

Btw, there is a new developer's post at the (Japanese) beta tester's site that explains the whole system in minute detai. Talk about fast reaction ^.^/

Basically it's 8 hours per week @100% Skill increase, then dwindling to 0 in 10% increments during the following 7 hours. However, this is class-specific. So playing another class will give you a fresh 100% start for that class for 8 hours.

As pysical level is shared between classes, however, after 8 hours/week it's down the road no matter what.

And SE seems pretty adamant about that.

Which I, personally cheer them for. Some people simply have to be guided to get a life. Or play WoW. Or a Korean Grinder.

Of course, you CAN play longer without switching classes and you WILL get EXP. But by playing double the "normal" time for that class (16 hours) will net you only 150% of what a 8-hour-player gets.

The only thing SE did wrong was naming this a "fatigue/penalty" system. If they had stated that "for the first 8 hours every week, you'll get a 100% EXP bonus. Yay!" everybody would have been happy. Although technically this would be the same thing.

Psychology, psychology.

^ Original Post for reference.

[Suirin]

It is totally different than a XP ring. XP rings are actually bonuses. This isn't. There is the normal XP you receive from a mob/activity (And you get XP from pretty much all activities), then after 8 hours, you get diminishing XP until it reaches 0% @ 15 hours total for each class, and globally for physical. This information was provided with source from Suirane. It isn't hard to comprehend and I'm amazed at how this isn't being grasped yet.

Well, when you call something the exact opposite of what it actually does, that is the definition of orwellian right? 0 Xp is now surplus. Gotcha. I use it because it is easy to digest, and understand. I could use some more obscure reference analogy, but it would probably be lost on most people.

Here how is this then. You have a boss that everyone hates. He names the week Happy Workers Week, and then as reward makes everyone work 15 hours more a week, and without overtime. It would become crystal clear to the workers, that this week isn't happy workers week, but pissed off workers week. This is essentially what "Surplus" XP is. It is not surplus. It is a tax. It is punishment, not reward.

...which makes it absolutely ORWELLIAN. Yikes!

[SilverBreeze]

This is pretty much getting picked up by all the Jpn fan websites. It would be funny if this was another untrue rumor like the Sankaku one.

If it's untrue they better come out with the truth and soon, because I know of a LOT of people who have already cancelled their preorders, and more will continue when they find out about this. There's lots of faithful players who want to play FF14, but there's too many other good MMOs on the horizon for SE to really screw around at the moment.

[omegaB]

well thought he said he saw it on the jp dev site, but hopefully it is also a farce, cause this system would be madness.

[Saroyan]

...which makes it absolutely ORWELLIAN. Yikes!

SE is the Ministry of Love

[Ae Cha]

Btw, there is a new developer's post at the (Japanese) beta tester's site that explains the whole system in minute detai. Talk about fast reaction ^.^/

Could anyone check this out and repost it here?

[Suirin]

@Saroyan
Headed by Tanaka O'Brien ^.^/

@Ae Cha
I'll try. Hopefully BG gets the fonts right.

Edit:
Sorry, can't get it working correctly.

P.S.: Listen to Alkar. Confirmation in English should come soon anyway.