Are these controversies relevant to your impression of FFXIV

[miokomioko]

Thinking that these "issues" are going to, alone, turn anyone off from the game is absurd.

[notorious bum]

Wat.

You're never going to get it.

Quit pigeon-holing shit, its already been established that there's a difference between normal object/texturing reuse practices and this "rushjob copypasta scenery, hope they won't notice!"

I think its fair to make the stereotype that casual gamers care more about the grafix and instant gratification than SE fanboys do. That's why I don't see this as an overreaction when it could make-or-break some people's decisions to start paying a subscription fee after the new car smell wears off.

[Hyan]

12 million casuals don't care about grafix

[miokomioko]

Quit pigeon-holing shit, its already been established that there's a difference between normal object/texturing reuse practices and this "rushjob copypasta scenery, hope they won't notice!"

I think its fair to make the stereotype that casual gamers care more about the grafix and instant gratification than SE fanboys do. That's why I don't see this as an overreaction when it could make-or-break some people's decisions to start paying a subscription fee after the new car smell wears off.

I'm not 'pigeon hole'ing anything. You think it's from a lazy art team, you must be dense. You think it was to cut-costs, you must be dense. That's all I was saying here. Rush-job might be more accurate, but it's no one's fault outside of some douchebag SE executives who have no concept of game development making release date demands. It's not hard to see how talented SE's art teams really are by playing any of these games, even XIV. If you think they were simply too lazy to make some more rock formations to fill these zones that are 10x as big and detailed than anything they've done before while working under deadlines that were way too close, you must be dense.

[Ksandra]

I think its fair to make the stereotype that casual gamers care more about the grafix and instant gratification than SE fanboys do.

Wtf gave you that idea? 10 million casual players play with these kinds of graphics:


http://www.kotaku.com/assets/resourc...h_park_wow.jpg

I highly doubt that casual players caring about graphics is even remotely close to being considered a stereotype

Spoiler: show

I'm well aware I may have just made this thread even shittier with a possible wow vs. the world argument, but seriously, it's like the perfect example

I will agree though that casuals usually want instant gratification more than fanboys, but that has to deal with actually game content/play, which has nothing to do with this thread.

[notorious bum]

12 million play due to pop culture. Not really what I was going for on the comparison. I was mostly pointing to new releases.

Just because the guy in charge is a lazy, unintuitive bastard, doesn't all of a sudden void my comment about the art team.

[Hyan]

Nobody is being lazy. Stop using that word.

[miokomioko]

Just because the guy in charge is a lazy, unintuitive bastard, doesn't all of a sudden void my comment about the art team.

Impatient, yes. Lazy, no. And yes it does void everything you said about anyone underneath them.

[notorious bum]

Corporate bondage? PS2 limitations? Not alot of other explanations. I'm only being hard on them because well, they are the Lucas Arts of RPGs afterall. Production values should reflect it.

[miokomioko]

I don't recall the details of their financial reports, but... Weren't they hurting pretty bad with the production costs of their games skyrocketing and the resulting sales not really changing a whole lot? It's a similar issue for a lot of game developing. I recall that FFXI was, by far, their largest profit.

[Hyan]

Money.

They have an X budget and resources to work with. Some parts of the game are going to need to deal with less resources, and prioritizing is always an unfortunate reality.

I'm sure they could use 150 million on this game, but if they don't have to (it won't be cost effective, in other words), they won't do it.

SE has always been good at using minimal funds to get maximum gain. Do not confuse it with laziness. That would be just a slap in the face to those few people that work their asses off everyday to meet the deadline.

[Ksandra]

12 million play due to pop culture. Not really what I was going for on the comparison. I was mostly pointing to new releases.

first of all prove it that people only play WoW due to pop culture and then maybe I'll listen. secondly, it also had a strong playerbase within the first 6 months of release. and that was with bad graphics AND tons of shitty glitches.

My point is not to say wow is better or anything, but it's playerbase is so huge, (and mostly casual) that it would be hard to deny it as a good model as to what casual players want.

You did hit one thing on the head, and that's instant gratification. I don't think people play WoW because of pop culture. That's maybe why they try it out, but it's not what will make them stay. I think it's because they can get a lot done in a short period of time. But again, for the most part (nothing is ever absolute), they don't complain or quit over graphics. I just think it's an extreme overstatement to consider something a stereotype when you have a huge example of it not being one.

[Sephiroth]

When I ran to Ishgard I didn't notice any copy and paste, but this was before everyone started whining about it.

[Meresgi]

Just because the guy in charge is a lazy, unintuitive bastard, doesn't all of a sudden void my comment about the art team.

The guy in charge has a budge he has to follow, and they do some pretty damn good work with their time restraints and budget. Could they do more? Probably, but I can 100% safely say the people who you think are "lazy" were dropping around 50-60hrs a week if not more to push FF14 out on time and underbudget.

[Rowe]

I ran the route to Ishgard with a friend last night. He didn't notice the repeats, he was more interested in just exploring. And I have to admit doing the same run with a friend I didn't care at all either. We were talking on Skype the entire time and I had about 100 times more fun doing it over again with a friend than alone.

In the history of human endeavors when budget and time constraints are imposed on projects trade-offs must be made. When I think of how much XI changed over the years, and then consider the foundation they are setting for XIV I am very optimistic. XIV will launch with probably 30-40% of the content it will end up with after just 2 years. SO, I have to give them a pass on anything I might notice right now.

[notorious bum]

Who knows what their budget really was with this game. Without proof of some kind of realistic financial hardships, I don't really care to speculate anymore. I'm just going by the fact that its a high-profile game that they had 5yrs to develop, with previous MMO experience to draw from, and this is an unexpected fumble for a next-gen MMO.

Maybe their editor is a piece of shit and isn't dev-friendly, companies are notorious for shitty editors. That's my first thought from a designer-standpoint, besides budgeting. I do feel bad for the artists, without them, SE would have to rely on their revolutionary....gameplay.

In all seriousness, I agree this isn't gamebreaking no matter how hard I'm being on them about it. Game will probably be fine by next year. I might even try it out if GW2 plays like a retarded cousin, who knows.

[Mesiah]

Much more annoying than the actual copy/paste that is being used is watching two groups of people fight over 2 completely different things. Nearly every person on here that thinks it is a non-issue keeps rationalizing by saying "All games reuse textures" Your argument completely sidesteps the actual complaint. This isn't about the model of a tree being reused, or some rock texture being reused. This is entire sections of the map being reused over and over in the same zone. While it is perfectly fine to reuse models and textures and all games do it, most games, especially the good ones do not copy entire sections of the map. So, seriously, if your only argument is that other games reuse textures, quit fucking wasting everyone's time because you aren't even on the same subject.

That being said, this isn't really a deal breaker for me, but I do wish SE would have just delayed the PC release along with the ps3 and released a polished product. While we have come to expect this level of quality on release from other MMOs, I expect more from SE. And with mmos like A.P.B. shutting their servers down after only 3 months, it just goes to show that these companies need to start trying to get it right the first time and not ask their customers to pay a subscription to beta test their half finished products. I'm not a big star wars fan, but I think Bioware has the right idea with the old republic. Their development cycle is agonizingly slow, but when that game releases, I'll bet the bank that it will be the most polished mmo released in the last 5 years... maybe even ever. Thats what I was hoping out of 14, but I think I am going to be disappointed. Doesn't mean I won't play it, but I still feel a little let down.

[Hyan]

Who knows what their budget really was with this game. Without proof of some kind of realistic financial hardships, I don't really care to speculate anymore. I'm just going by the fact that its a high-profile game that they had 5yrs to develop, with previous MMO experience to draw from, and this is an unexpected fumble for a next-gen MMO.

This is exactly something to be expected from them. We don't know what their budget was but we do know that they don't waste any more money than they have to.

If there is one thing they do exceptionally well, it's this.

it just goes to show that these companies need to start trying to get it right the first time and not ask their customers to pay a subscription to beta test their half finished products.

They should just be more honest. Of course they won't go and say "our game isn't ready, don't play it" but overhyping it is even worse, because the disappointment will be even greater. Make it clear what you bring to the table, don't create unreasonable expectations, and let the consumer decide if and when they should start playing.

[Meresgi]

Much more annoying than the actual copy/paste that is being used is watching two groups of people fight over 2 completely different things. Nearly every person on here that thinks it is a non-issue keeps rationalizing by saying "All games reuse textures" Your argument completely sidesteps the actual complaint. This isn't about the model of a tree being reused, or some rock texture being reused. This is entire sections of the map being reused over and over in the same zone. While it is perfectly fine to reuse models and textures and all games do it, most games, especially the good ones do not copy entire sections of the map. So, seriously, if your only argument is that other games reuse textures, quit fucking wasting everyone's time because you aren't even on the same subject.

Most games DO reuse environmental textures and details as well. Textures are reused all over the place for walls. Objects are reused like trashcans, cars, streetsigns. NPCs are reused in games with tons of them. And if they don't somehow reuse ANYTHING from the game, they will usually reuse something from a previous game from the franchise and upgrade them. It's a common practice, and everyone does it in some form or another.

I could see this being a big deal if they reused numerous sections of a map in EVERY other map but within each map it doesn't really matter. Details will repeat themselves in games and in real life so why is it a bad thing?

Spoiler: show

http://img2.sankakustatic.com/wp-con...copy-paste.jpg

That map is very large and I count 9 reused things, the most reused of them being the pond.

There's really nothing horrible or mind blowing about artists spinning a model 45degrees to use in another section. It takes a lot of time to construct environments.

Edit: APB shutdown already? damn I still have 10hrs of gameplay left for that shitfest I never used.

[miokomioko]

And imagine if the maps looked like FFXI maps. This thread wouldn't exist.