ClickAndBuy - Impressions (Click Ultimate Pay then choose PayPal.)

[Arthain-Baka]

Quick little bits of information about my impression of what I've seen of it so far, note this is based on my own opinions and potentially flawed knowledge, constructive critisism is welcome.
Additionally if anyone from Australia has been able to get anywhere with buying Crysta (Myself and a number of others keep getting errors) as I'd like to determine if the option to pay through PayPal is working/available for Australia.
Additionally don't just post with "ClickAndBuy Sucks" or similar things, I actually want an intelligent discussion on the topic that can inform myself and other readers.

• A third party only as part of the reorganisation or a sale of the assets of ClickandBuy, or having ensured that steps have been taken to ensure your privacy rights continue to be protected.
• Other ClickandBuy Group of companies.
• Countries outside the European Economic Area ("EEA"). By way of example, this may happen if any of our servers are from time to time located in a country outside the EEA or one of the providers is located in a country outside the EEA. These countries may not have similar data protection laws to the EEA. If we transfer your information outside the EEA in this way, we will take steps to ensure that your personal data continues to be protected.

I have my annoyances with that section of the Privacy Policy, the first one is a little hazy in regards to the second situation.
The second basically says they can use your information for their company group which depending on what they include could be rather annoying.
Third basically says they might transfer your data to a less secure location where the laws may by such that you cannot sue any party if it isn't correctly handled on that end.

You also consent to have ClickandBuy provide you with attractive product information and news about ClickandBuy or partners of ClickandBuy by email, by mail or by telephone. ClickandBuy sends out newsletters on a regular basis to keep you informed about offers, news and services.

That's basically what I was meaning in relation to the second point raised previously, fortunately you can disable this by emailing here: [email protected]
However it still doesn't give you the option of only storing the data for the purposes of the payments, I don't want my information to be used for anything else.

In order to make unconditional use of the ClickandBuy web site and of our services, you must unconditionally agree to bound by this policy.

Bit off ass covering statements here...

4.6 Our Fees and Charges: We will charge You the fees set out in the fee table in connection with transactions made in relation to Your Account (including funding, purchasing and withdrawal transactions). We will also charge You certain administration fees set out in the fee table, including in relation to ongoing management of inactive accounts, debt collection and correction of failed payments. All fees will be charged in the currency of Your Account and You agree that We may debit by way of set-off from Your Account any fees, charges or other amounts owing to Us and payable by You in connection with the Service.

Basically they reserve to charge you if your cease using their services and don't ask for your account to be terminated, and in such event 'administration' fee's may be applied.

4.9 Authentication: We may seek to authenticate the details of any payment method provided by You by making a credit to or a reservation of a small amount of money from the particular payment method. You may incur charges from the provider of the respective payment method in these circumstances, but We will not be liable for any such charges.

Translation: We may charge the account to determine if it is valid, the charge generated from this action is not to be covered by us it is at your expense.

4.11 Maximum Execution Time: The time for a payment transaction to be executed is the next three business days after the date of the transaction. Where a ”Business Day” is Monday to Friday, 09:00 – 17:00 (UK local time), excluding public holidays in the United Kingdom.

Oh joy, lets hope that SE has setup their servers to handle if payment isn't performed immediately.

5.6 Prohibited uses: Neither You nor anyone else authorised by You may use the Account or the Service:

• fraudulently or in connection with any criminal offence or unlawful purpose of any nature including but not limited to money laundering;
• in any unlawful manner, or in contravention of any applicable legislation, licence or third party rights;
• to re-sell or attempt to re-sell the Service or any part of it to any third party or attempt to exploit the Service for any commercial purposes;
• in a way that does not comply with these Terms of Use or with any reason able instructions that We give to You, or
• for tampering, ‘hacking’, modifying or otherwise corrupting the security or functionality of the Service or of this website or any other website.

Now this is actually rather interesting on several points, for instance look at the 3rd point, if this extends to the service being payed by this service then SE can recieve all the details as stated previously "Data may be aquired for authorities/court precedings" and actually prosecute players very easily. Additionally you'd need to re-register with these people if you wish to play again and SE can ban the actual person based upon the data as opposed to just the credit cards. (Could be SE checkmating RMTs)
Sadly the last point about hacking doesn't have as vague implications so for simple hacking offenses it doesn't appear SE can persecute you however it may be used to prevent you from playing in the future.

7.1 In the event of an unauthorised, non-executed or incorrectly executed pay ment transaction You must let Us know without undue delay in accordance with section 3. You are only entitled to redress under section 7.2 if You notify Us without undue delay, and in any case no later than 13 months after the debit date, This time limit does not apply if We have not provided or made available the required transaction information to You. Contact details specific to Your country of residence can be found on Our Website at WorldWideWeb.clickandbuy.com (I needed to modify this to bypass URL restriction use your brain)

This is good and bad, it basically says that if an undue payment is made it won't be undone without your bringing the matter to the attention of the service (ClickAndBuy). However it does mean that if there is another error with the Payments (like they had in FFXI for some people) there are protocols in place to reverse any damage done.

10.6 Debt collection: Where We are unable to obtain sufficient funds from You to satisfy any payment due, We may transfer responsibility for collecting the outstanding debt to a debt collection agency and further charges will be levied in respect of costs incurred in collecting the debt as set out in the fee table and interest on late payments in accordance with the Late Payment of Commercial Debts (Interest) Act 1998 as amended and supplemented by the Late Payment of Commercial Debts Regulations 2002 and to suspend further services.

So, if the payment fails because of say lack of funds, they might hire a collection agency at your expence to get you to repay the loss.

11.2 Fees: For all withdrawals We will deduct the applicable fee from Your Account as set out in the fee table. You will be presented with the total fees for the withdrawal after You have logged Your withdrawal request and before completion of the withdrawal, at which point You may cancel Your request. We reserve the right to charge You a correction fee according to the fee table if wrong or incorrect payment details are provided or if a withdrawal fails or is impeded due to any other reason not caused by Us (e.g. returned or can celled cheque, payment returned by recipient's bank).

Every time we make a payment we are also paying a fee to ClickAndBuy, is this already covered in the fee SE announced earlier?
Either way we will need to pay a fee every time we make a payment to SE for FFXIV.

If you actually follow the links to view the Security statement it doesn't take your to the actual statement, instead you get the fluffy menu driven version and gives vauge mass-user encouraging options, I want details!

Additionally in order to view anything on the website that isn't just the Privacy Policy or Terms and conditions you are required to allow scripting on the site, bit annoyance.


Finally I'll end with this the fee's:

Open Account
free

Payment
Direct Debit: free
Giropay: free
direct ebanking: free
Online Money Transfer: free
Credit Card: free


Funding your ClickandBuy Account
Direct Debit: free
Giropay: free
direct ebanking: free
Online Money Transfer: free
Credit Card: 3.9%

Handling Fee for Withdrawal: 1.85 EUR

Chargeback: 15.00 EUR

Maintenance Fee (per month)
After 12 months of the ClickandBuy account being inactive we will charge a maintenance fee given that there is credit on your account: 1.00 EUR

Book out Fee: up to 15.00 EUR

Outstanding payment reminder Fee: 7.50 EUR

Currency Exchange Fee: 5.9%

External collection agency fee: -

Now to cover my own ass
Don't take this to mean that these things are definitive they are my views with my knowledge in Comp. Security laws (And limited Law [Non-Comp. Sec]), just because a situation has been highlited here it just means that there is potential for it to occur as opposed to being absolute.
These items raised here may be subject to change at any time and I am not responsible for maintaining this information as the Privacy Policy, Terms and Conditions, or other related data changes.
I am neither promoting or demoting the use of the ClickAndBuy (and it's affiliates) services and cannot be responsible for any actions taken in relation to matters pertaining to ClickAndBuy (and affiliates) based upon the above issues.

Ok, for those that actually read all that:
I'm really not saying they are bad, I'm just a paranoid type of person with online things, while some things in there are absolute others are merely speculation. Odds are that it will be fine and there will be very few issues with the service but I thought I'd let people see a little about the service as I myself had never heard of it until today and I like to look into things.
There's a number of other things I'd comment on but I think those issues required a bit more knowledge of Comp. Sec. Law, which is a pretty hazy area.

Please at least scroll up to the Fee's section and make a note of it.

If you insist in going through with payment for it please head this advice:
The retards want you to enter a security question, those things are just another avenue of attack on an account and serve no practical purpose when pertaining to a matter that requires security like this!
Don't fill this with an actual answer it's very vulnerable if this is correct information.

Stupid SE Account Website section to register this account is trying to add "iesnare.com" to the list of scripts running on the site, this site collects information about your hardware devices in order to identify you, screw that NoScript that thing to hell.
Disabling this has no impact on your registration.

[Corbins]

Staying well away from this system. Using Crysta instead, easy enough to top up with Paypal funds when needed.

[Sinzfeldt]

So this is FFXIVs primary payment system? What the shit?

pre-order cancelled

[Kurp]

linkedin profile:

ClickandBuy is one of the leading payment systems on the Internet. Originally established in 1999 in Cologne, Germany, we are now a British-based company with our head offices in London – where we are subject to the regulations of the Financial Services Authority (FSA).

Over 13 million customers already use ClickandBuy to pay at over 16,000 shops – including the Apple iTunes Store, AOL, msn, orange, parship, wallstreet online and bwin.

We not only offer our customers and partners the security that comes from an internationally respected company, but the experience gathered from operating as a full-service online payment provider for over 10 years as well.

[KoRnpedo]

too much to read, do u work for them??

+ I think im going with Ultimateblabla or watever it was, since i can use my paypal, dont know about this Clickandbuy..

edit: ok i read some of what u wrote >.> .. come on im too sleepy to read.. i think im going with the other option.

[shidobu]

So this is FFXIVs primary payment system? What the shit?

pre-order cancelled

Dont know if serious <_<

[Ratatapa]

Doubt it since it's in small letters lol

[shidobu]

never know! iv seen some retarded shit on these forums

[Aladwar]

Do we know what the baseline fee/month for FFXIV service is in Crysta yet? It doesn't seem to be specified anywhere within the Account Management site.

[Kaylia]

"Maintenance Fee (per month)
After 12 months of the ClickandBuy account being inactive we will charge a maintenance fee given that there is credit on your account: 1.00 EUR"



What? Is that legal. Isnt it basically like "If you forget about us, we will charge your ass hoping you dont notice"

[Aladwar]

"Maintenance Fee (per month)
After 12 months of the ClickandBuy account being inactive we will charge a maintenance fee given that there is credit on your account: 1.00 EUR"



What? Is that legal. Isnt it basically like "If you forget about us, we will charge your ass hoping you dont notice"

I assume it's perfectly legal if you agree to a service agreement that stipulates they can do that. :/

[Shuichi]

Ugh, I'm trying to setup my payment method for FFXIV (and have not had my coffee) and I ran into this. Looks like you have to set up another account password on top of your SQEX ID. I'm guessing there's no "classic" method of setting up payment?

[Arthain-Baka]

I assume it's perfectly legal if you agree to a service agreement that stipulates they can do that. :/

Hence why I brought up this part here:

In order to make unconditional use of the ClickandBuy web site and of our services, you must unconditionally agree to bound by this policy.

Covers their ass because if/when you sign up to the site and it's services you are saying you agree to the terms and will not complain if you didn't read them and then find out you get charged.

Do we know what the baseline fee/month for FFXIV service is in Crysta yet? It doesn't seem to be specified anywhere within the Account Management site.

This is purely speculation but if the cost in Crysta conforms with the cost of paying directly (or rather indirectly):
Direct Cost: £8.99
Cysta: 100 for £1
If you round the Direct cost to £9 we can assume a minimum of:
Cysta: 900 (9 * 100)

Back on topic of ClickAndBuy:
I've also found a number of very angry Steam users who basically got shafter by these guys, from what I can tell they were over-charged and never refunded whether this was because they didn't complain in time or they didn't read what would and wouldn't result in a fee/charge I don't know.

Ugh, I'm trying to setup my payment method for FFXIV (and have not had my coffee) and I ran into this. Looks like you have to set up another account password on top of your your SQEX ID. I'm guessing there's no "classic" method of setting up payment?

Yes that's basically it, however most regions are reporting that they are able to pay via PayPal, so if you already have a PayPal accound setup (which a lot of people do) you can go through them and don't need to deal with this crap.

If you do chose to go via this method however you cannot pay SE directly, you use the PayPal account to purchase Crysta and then use that to pay the Subscription fee, we don't know the exact amount but I speculated it earlier in this post.

[KoRnpedo]

Depending on the payment method and amount of Crysta to be added, a surcharge may be incurred for users who have selected UltimatePay (PlaySpan).

anyone knows how much extra would they charge?

[KoRnpedo]

Double post..

[Arthain-Baka]

anyone knows how much extra would they charge?

I'll have a look into it now, odds are it's some fee related to UltimatePay itself so I'll have a quick look at it's documentation and see if I can find any reference to such fee's.
I don't like that when I get to the site that NoScript stops about 10 elements from running.

Found the following:

Why wouldn’t I just pay with my Credit Card or PayPal rather than buying points ?

UltimatePoints are specifically designed to enable you to buy very low-priced goods and services without paying additional charges to cover the costs of a credit card transaction. Instead, these fees are incurred only once when you buy Points. This allows PlaySpan to offer you a wider range of products and services than otherwise possible.

This could be the fee SE refers to, basically it says when you purchase Points you get charged an additional fee.

Additionally at through the side menu is a list of different genre's one of which being MMO's however FFXIV isn't listed there, so potentially it hasn't been integrated yet?

Just found the actual Terms of Service at last via a tiny link at the footer of the page, getting a bit tired so I'll look at it tomorrow and revise my above statement if needed.

[Akucaen]

Yeah, I missed that signing up and I'm on the phone to cancel. I'll just use the crysta system. Fuck shady operations like that.

You can't cancel by phone, has to be "in writing" via email. Goddamnit.

[raginbull]

Thanks very much for informing us of this. I will for sure be using Crysta as the payment method.

[Viena]

Is anyone getting other options (like paypal) besides Click and Buy and Ultimate Pay to purchase crysta? I'm just getting those two on a NA account, although I'm accessing it from Europe.

[Corbins]

Is anyone getting other options (like paypal) besides Click and Buy and Ultimate Pay to purchase crysta? I'm just getting those two on a NA account, although I'm accessing it from Europe.

Click on the Add Crysta link, then the UltimatePay option, and it will take you to a screen that offers Paypal and other choices.

EDIT: I'm UK.