Crafting theories discussion. Dev craft talk in OP

[Zeille]

Some synths of the same rank are just harder too it seems (and/or the ranks listed on various are not quite correct). For example, I had a horrible time making hempen cloth. All the way through rank 11 weaver, I had to use guild support to consistently make the synth. However, I was able to make the compoenents and end products pretty much in my sleep.

For the cloth example, I was getting less and less experience as I ranked up, so I assume I was above the required rank for it, but it still required guild support.

I've had similiar experiences with the other crafts, so it would seem that sometimes guild support is essential and other times not so much. I haven't ran into anything yet where not having the guild mark ability has stopped me from completing the synth, but I'm sure that's coming and will be a real cock-block when you have multiple high level crafts but don't have the guild mark abilities yet.

That cloth synth does require Common Clothshop and says so when you attempt to make it. If you attempt to make it without Clothshop, you get a message saying something along the lines of "The synthesis requires larger-scale accommodations". That's your hint that you need a specific type of support. Some synths say Common and others say Guild and I'm guessing later on others will say Master, so be sure to note the difference.

You can still succeed without support if you're overleveled, but it won't be as easy as crafting something that does not require support, like a piece of gear. At weaver 10+ you shouldn't need support, but I wouldn't get ballsy with bold unless you have it.

[Ksandra]

Also, who knows if there is food that raises crafting stats. That isn't taken into account either.

according to ffxivpro there is, I haven't messed with it yet, (like most people)

but distilled water is supposed to give 5+ craftmanship.

should be easy to test.

I was thinking about it last night too, that food might help a lot of people's bitching on breaking. It makes a lot of sense that SE would want food to be important (just little people are making it cause no one knows what the shit it does yet). I have seen far too many crafters as well in ul'dah who are wearing their melee gear instead of crafting gear. people have to focus on increasing their crafting stats if they want to craft higher level shit.

[Elcura]

according to ffxivpro there is, I haven't messed with it yet, (like most people)

but distilled water is supposed to give 5+ craftmanship.

should be easy to test.

I was thinking about it last night too, that food might help a lot of people's bitching on breaking. It makes a lot of sense that SE would want food to be important (just little people are making it cause no one knows what the shit it does yet). I have seen far too many crafters as well in ul'dah who are wearing their melee gear instead of crafting gear. people have to focus on increasing their crafting stats if they want to craft higher level shit.

Pretty much, people used to craft naked cause of the gear breaks, now they all craft infront of the repair NPC. If your crafting gear doesn't have control, craftmenship or m.craftsmenship then you're doing it wrooooong. Getting a higher level tool is also important, crafting above level 10 with weathered tools is retarded. Invest in that shit.

Level a few crafts to 10 for their abilities, Preserve, Tender Touch, Maker's Muse and Fulfillment are the best I've seen so far. Masterpiece might be nice for low levels when trying to HQ or doing low level local leves.

[TransparentMind]

Does anywhere have the info (or at least somewhat solid speculation) on how those crafting stats affect synthing?

[Ksandra]

renaming thread, try to focus on attempts at figuring out theories of crafting in this one (basically what's been happening) and regular crafting questions in this one:

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/990...-undyed-canvas.

[Maaglin]

That cloth synth does require Common Clothshop and says so when you attempt to make it. If you attempt to make it without Clothshop, you get a message saying something along the lines of "The synthesis requires larger-scale accommodations". That's your hint that you need a specific type of support. Some synths say Common and others say Guild and I'm guessing later on others will say Master, so be sure to note the difference.

You can still succeed without support if you're overleveled, but it won't be as easy as crafting something that does not require support, like a piece of gear. At weaver 10+ you shouldn't need support, but I wouldn't get ballsy with bold unless you have it.

Yeah, that's where I said in my post I couldn't make it without support.

[Vuitton]

Pretty much, people used to craft naked cause of the gear breaks, now they all craft infront of the repair NPC. If your crafting gear doesn't have control, craftmenship or m.craftsmenship then you're doing it wrooooong. Getting a higher level tool is also important, crafting above level 10 with weathered tools is retarded. Invest in that shit.

Level a few crafts to 10 for their abilities, Preserve, Tender Touch, Maker's Muse and Fulfillment are the best I've seen so far. Masterpiece might be nice for low levels when trying to HQ or doing low level local leves.

Not sure if your'e saying they're camping there because of damaged gears or not. BUT! In case you are, they are really camping there because the repair NPC gives you access to "larger accommodations". Just the "common" type, I believe.

Just tell the repair NPC you want to do your own repairs, and they will offer you the buff for some gils.

[Zeille]

Yeah, that's where I said in my post I couldn't make it without support.

Ahh I see. Must've been tired this morning lol. Read your post as more of you wondering why you needed support for that one and not others.

[Mikelee0351]

Question, has anyone gotten anything other than durability loss from using "touch up"

[miokomioko]

Touch Up = extra chance at HQ. (basically a re-roll at HQ based on your Quality)

[goodr]

There's a lot of factors to consider before calling others out and getting un-unequippable underwear in a wad.

Lots of people have lots of experience with rapid synth and lots of people have lots of experience with crafting post-rapid-spam-synth and those are two entirely different experiences. Also, the biggest thing I had to keep reminding myself of was the Asuran Armguards, which give a nice hefty craftsmanship & magic craftsmanship bonus that scales up to +11 each at rank10 and then goes straight to zero at rank 11. You literally go from "no problem" to only having half or less "craftsmanship" stats, which may ruin a previously simple synth.

Consider each of you also have different DoW/DoM jobs that probably have different stat allocations. Sometimes I am diligent about switching to it for a particularly challenging set of synths and others, I just go naked and don't bother.

The best we can *all* do is to share our own experiences, note that they are our own and refrain from assuming our experiences are comprehensive of all variables. At this point, everything is anecdotal with tiny, tiny sets of data and we'll do well to remember that instead of distracting ourselves with pettiness.

[Liminality]

This was my post in my LS forum:

Previous Information:

Control: Will reduce the amount of durability you lose - success or fail.
Magic Craftsmanship: Will reduce the amount or frequency of elements becoming unstable.
Craftsmanship: will increase the gain of Quality.
High Quality: Synthesis are not simply related to the amount of quality, but also the stability of your materials. Take notice of whether or not you have 150 Quality but are also throwing sparks vs. 95 Quality with a perfectly stable synth.
-Courtesy of Phil/Azira


The synthesis stability is shown by the color of the orb. Those colors are:

White - Highest -chance- of synthesis success. Lowest potential durability loss.
Multicolored - Average success chance - pulsing no longer a factor. Pulse is not varied, just seems to be in certain cases of server/UI lag. Average potential durability loss.
Yellow - Below-average success chance. Higher potential durability loss.
Red - Lowest success chance. Highest potential durability loss.
-Courtesy of Rhys (Updated with Info below.)

I actually think Golden/Yellow is the average success/failure, and Multicolored is just unstable and random. Just my opinion, though.


Effect of Stats and Elements on Crafting*:

Alchemist = ??? and Intelligence
Armorer = Earth and Vitality
Blackmith = Fire and Strength
Carpenter = ??? and ???
Culinarian = Water and Piety
Goldsmith = Ice and Dex
Leather = Lightning and ???
Weaver = Wind and Mind
*Note: These are believed to be the current/correct correlations.


Guardian Effects*:

Click the following link for the flowchart:

Guardian FlowChart

*Note: These are believed to be the current/correct correlations.



Personal Data/Finds:

It is my personal belief that the effect that physical level stats have on crafting are Tier'd. Here is my current chart:

Stat < 60 = Tier I
60 <= Stat < 90 = Tier II
90 <- Stat < 120 = Tier III
These numbers are mostly guesses from personal experience. I started from 60, but it could be that Tier I is actually @ 30. I assume it is not, because it is relatively easy to reach 30 in a particular stat early on. This is an assumption. I back this up by personally reassigning my points and crafting (Weaver that uses MND) @ MND 59 and MND 61. The success/failure rate was noticeably different @ 59 (more failures) than it was @ 61 (more success). This is up for debate, but you're free to try it on a synth. Just make sure it's not a synth you can make all the time. Do something in your level range for more accurate results.

Could be a possible 20, or even 10 Tier base. -Rhys

Also, why we are on Tiers, it is most definitely likely that chance for HQ is Tier based on current Rank. SE is used to this system and it's only natural that they would use it.

Basically what I do to try and get the best results for right now is make sure I'm @ my 60 or over stat on MND, and then I stack on Control, Craftsmanship, and Mag. Craftsmanship on. I'll do the same thing when I get close to 90 MND down the road.

The theory I heard on "Touch Up" was the whole if you have 250 Quality and use Touch Up, you have a 25% chance to HQ, but I can't really confirm this at all.

[Ksandra]

how did you come to your conclusions on your stats?

[miokomioko]

It appears to be entirely based on the abilities/traits that each class gets (Blacksmith gets a "increases the effect of STR on synthesis" ability) and the colors of the abilities/traits (Blacksmith's are mostly red).

I believe the attributes being tied to the classes, but I don't believe elemental affinity is tied to any specific class... maybe tied to the individual synth you're attempting based on its element of aetheryte required.

[Liminality]

how did you come to your conclusions on your stats?

(Omg, I just typed a helluva lot and it got erased -_-)

In a nutshell, I had 59 base MND and with a Cotton Cowl equipped I had 62 MND. I bought some Control and Crafts+ gear and replaced the Cotton Cowl with it. I got worse success rates with it equipped and decided to re-examine my situation. I reassigned some stats to give me 62 MND w/o the need of the Cotton Cowl. I equipped the Control and Crafts+ gear and got the same success rate as before, but I also had better stability and I could use Standard Synthesis a lot w/o losing any durability with a gain in Quality.

If stats are indeed Tier'd for Crafting, then the numbers could be much higher. As I took 4 hours to reset all my points in MND, I ended up with 112 MND (I think). I noticed no difference in having 112 MND vs. 62 MND. Although, it could be that Intelligence and Piety are secondary traits for Weaver (unconfirmed)?

I also re-did my elemental resistances to focus on Wind and Earth during this time, and noticed no significant difference in that area. It may only effect stability of your crystals?

Just in my personal experience, there seemed like a significant difference in my crafting in having 59 MND w/ crafting gear and having 62 MND w/ crafting gear. To me, it just makes no sense why having a Cotton Cowl /equipped would matter in synthesis results, unless it was effect my stats (Cotton Cowl has +3 MND).

[Ksandra]

It appears to be entirely based on the abilities/traits that each class gets (Blacksmith gets a "increases the effect of STR on synthesis" ability) and the colors of the abilities/traits (Blacksmith's are mostly red).

I believe the attributes being tied to the classes, but I don't believe elemental affinity is tied to any specific class... maybe tied to the individual synth you're attempting based on its element of aetheryte required.

oopps not those stats I should have specified.

I mean about control, craftman, and mag. craftman.

[Liminality]

oopps not those stats I should have specified.

I mean about control, craftman, and mag. craftman.

Oh, OK! lol

That explanations for Control, Mag. Craftsmanship, and Craftsmanship are just our literal views on it from assumptions and other forum browsing that we've gathered. We haven't tested this, but it's what we believe to be the correct. We have not tested this. However, I tend to stack on only Control+ and Craftmanship+ gear.

I look @ it as Control = greater control over your synthesis (better success) and Craftmanship = better @ your craft (Quality results, kinda like Masterpiece). So, I do Control > Craftsmanship > Mag. Craftsmanship.

[miokomioko]

But... those are assumptions based on wording. I could look at the same "Control" stat and think that is would give you more control over instabilities... which makes more literal sense to me.

I think the most basic enhancing stat (the only one that Asuran Armguards boosts) is going to be the one primary stat that increases your general rate of success (or damage for war/magic).

Discipline of the Land Primary: Gathering
Discipline of the Land Secondary: Perception/Output

Discipline of the Hand Primary: Craftsmanship
Discipline of the Hand Secondary: Magic Craftsmanship/Control

[Ksandra]

kk thanks XD

[Vuitton]

I've been thinking of control as to be your ability to manage your orbs. More control being better chances of getting pure white and holding onto it, preventing sparks from showing up, and out of balance elements.