Dancer discussion

[Genosync]

... dude, you can level a job to 75 in a week, it's only 90hours if you have the most amazing static PT ever...

[Wizerd]

... dude, you can level a job to 75 in a week, it's only 90hours if you have the most amazing static PT ever...

But this is from lv1, not 37, and it's only been active for just over 4 days. <_<

[Eanae]

He is 61. Confirmed by Linsivi on irc.

[Not Kuno]

... dude, you can level a job to 75 in a week, it's only 90hours if you have the most amazing static PT ever...

But this is from lv1, not 37, and it's only been active for just over 4 days. <_<

It's definatly possible. We had 75s of all toau jobs reported within a few days (some JP static on some random server did it).

[fussel]

Curing Waltz is effected by MND, not sure what else (but there is some other mod of some kind I think) healed for 4 more with Justice Badge than without.

It is also effected by VIT, found a Warrior's Belt on my gf's account and that took my Waltzes from 69 to 70 HP on lvl 18.

Bream Sushi gogogo :)

[Koyangi]

... dude, you can level a job to 75 in a week, it's only 90hours if you have the most amazing static PT ever...

But this is from lv1, not 37, and it's only been active for just over 4 days. <_<

It's definatly possible. We had 75s of all toau jobs reported within a few days (some JP static on some random server did it).
was my server, and btw the same group of people (swap out 2 people, add 1 more from last time) are approximately 66 right now.
they only doing this because they play 24/7, 1 sleeps another plays. I'd fare say I'm highest on my server aside from them and doing it legitimately :D

[frodnonnag]

is it just me, or is dancer as a sub something of ridiculous usefulness to pretty much any melee job?

i saw a sam/dnc in sky the other day mainheal his party in an alliance, while consistently debuffing despot and keeping up a drain samba. while that alone is awesome, i sat for a second and thought of the usefulness of this job as a sub.

ninjas and samurai (or practically any melee job) could use it in place of /whm to solo much better. offhand the only downfalls i see are lack of reraise and maybe debuff removers, but the ability to self cure while not being tied to a mp bar is just insane.

another aspect it could be used in is for bsts. again, not tied to a mp bar, in a proper camp, this could mean nonstop exp, literally no down time at all. again, only issue i see is lack of reraise.

in endgame i could see /dnc mainhealing parts of an alliance when mages are lacking, busy, or dead.

[Wizerd]

is it just me, or is dancer as a sub something of ridiculous usefulness to pretty much any melee job?

i saw a sam/dnc in sky the other day mainheal his party in an alliance, while consistently debuffing despot and keeping up a drain samba. while that alone is awesome, i sat for a second and thought of the usefulness of this job as a sub.

ninjas and samurai (or practically any melee job) could use it in place of /whm to solo much better. offhand the only downfalls i see are lack of reraise and maybe debuff removers, but the ability to self cure while not being tied to a mp bar is just insane.

another aspect it could be used in is for bsts. again, not tied to a mp bar, in a proper camp, this could mean nonstop exp, literally no down time at all. again, only issue i see is lack of reraise.

in endgame i could see /dnc mainhealing parts of an alliance when mages are lacking, busy, or dead.

The only problem with DNC as a sub is, of course, the use of TP. Most melee will still want to WS with that TP, but in situations like you described where WSing isn't the most important thing, it does seem like a very attractive sub.

[Max™]

is it just me, or is dancer as a sub something of ridiculous usefulness to pretty much any melee job?

i saw a sam/dnc in sky the other day mainheal his party in an alliance, while consistently debuffing despot and keeping up a drain samba. while that alone is awesome, i sat for a second and thought of the usefulness of this job as a sub.

ninjas and samurai (or practically any melee job) could use it in place of /whm to solo much better. offhand the only downfalls i see are lack of reraise and maybe debuff removers, but the ability to self cure while not being tied to a mp bar is just insane.

another aspect it could be used in is for bsts. again, not tied to a mp bar, in a proper camp, this could mean nonstop exp, literally no down time at all. again, only issue i see is lack of reraise.

in endgame i could see /dnc mainhealing parts of an alliance when mages are lacking, busy, or dead.

This is the biggest reason why I'm leveling it, aside from it looking fun, it could be a very VERY useful situational sub.

[frodnonnag]

The only problem with DNC as a sub is, of course, the use of TP. Most melee will still want to WS with that TP, but in situations like you described where WSing isn't the most important thing, it does seem like a very attractive sub.


even in merit/exp setups, you weapon smackers can pretty much go 5 melee and a brd in tp burns now. it seems viable enough to mainheal a party in endgame, it should easily mainheal a party in merits/exp.

[Wizerd]

The only problem with DNC as a sub is, of course, the use of TP. Most melee will still want to WS with that TP, but in situations like you described where WSing isn't the most important thing, it does seem like a very attractive sub.


even in merit/exp setups, you weapon smackers can pretty much go 5 melee and a brd in tp burns now. it seems viable enough to mainheal a party in endgame, it should easily mainheal a party in merits/exp.

4 melee and 2 bard, not 5 melee and a bard, that would be silly / stupid. Also, I'm not sure the addition of a melee who won't be WSing is better than the 3 original melees being Hasted (Perhaps Haste Samba would be your song of choice, but from the sounds of it you'd want the Drain Samba II, since it seems pretty good).

Not to mention this wouldn't work too well on Colibri, since the /DNC would likely still get hate sometimes and wipe out their TP. A badly timed Feather Tickle could potentially kill someone.

[Max™]

Sam/Dnc Soboro+6 hit build main heal powers activate!

Form of, TP Based Cure bot!

It will have to be worked out, but I'm going to have to go unlock it now that I've gotten my general running around/quests and whatnot handled.

I imagine a Fortitude Axe would work well to keep up the cures. >.>

[frodnonnag]

4 melee and 2 bard, not 5 melee and a bard, that would be silly / stupid. Also, I'm not sure the addition of a melee who won't be WSing is better than the 3 original melees being Hasted (Perhaps Haste Samba would be your song of choice, but from the sounds of it you'd want the Drain Samba II, since it seems pretty good).

Not to mention this wouldn't work too well on Colibri, since the /DNC would likely still get. hate sometimes and wipe out their TP. A badly timed Feather Tickle could potentially kill someone.


never said it had to be colibri camp, although even with feather tickle, that seems the most viable merit spot for this. as for the whole 5 melee and a brd vs 4 melee and a brd thing, i don't know or particularly care about the details, i was only using an example to overly emphasize a point. as for never ever doing a WS, i never said that, you did, the fictional melee person in question could possibly differentiate between when its best to just WS or when to cure, but in the end, shits situational.

[Max™]

A Sam/Dnc with a soboro would like.. never have to make hard decisions about TP use, the spam would be absurd and they could easily delegate a hit or two towards curing.

Same with a Fortitude axe.

Ok, I'm at 17% Tp. *one round goes by* Yay, 68% Tp.

[Ruth]

Drain Samba is effected by day and (I assume) weather, drain cap jumped from 6-9 on Darksday in Highlands with Brass Bhakanas(sp?) equipped. Made for an hour of very fast exp :D . So I guess I need to get off my bhind and get more elemental obis.

[Wizerd]

Drain Samba is effected by day and (I assume) weather, drain cap jumped from 6-9 on Darksday in Highlands with Brass Bhakanas(sp?) equipped. Made for an hour of very fast exp :D . So I guess I need to get off my bhind and get more elemental obis.

Just light(if cures are considered spells in this sense) and dark, really. Maybe for some the flourishes too (depending on what element they are if any), I guess.

[Meiyu]

To me from what I see dancer is kind of the opposite of bard. Abilities like quick step seem to be equivilant to a bard'ss madrigal. Instead of increasing a party's acc, it lowers the mobs eva. Drain dance seems to be the equivilant to a bard's minuet. Rather than buffing the party's direct hits, then drain would be increasing their damage by the hp they drain.


I hope that if this is a glitch SE fixes it soon, because that ability doesn't seem to be complete if this is the case.

You're comparing a step to a samba. I do agree with you that quick step is like the bard opposite of madrigal, in that it lowers mob evasion. However, box step lowers mob defense, which I would say is the opposite of minuet. Although I would love to see drain samba actually "drain" I doubt this would be considered a glitch based on your comparison.

[shaddix]

has anyone figured out how much def- box step is T_T?

[Tricen]

Go check in ballista?

[Eaglestrike]

Can Haste Samba and Drain Samba "stack" if two people are doing it? How exactly does the haste samba activate?

[Meiyu]

Can Haste Samba and Drain Samba "stack" if two people are doing it? How exactly does the haste samba activate?

I can't comment on Haste, but I pted with a LS member who was also leveling dancer, and we tried this out with Drain and Aspir Samba (on mobs that had mp and were not undead, obviously). This was weird, and possibly a bug: She used drain, I used aspir, I only got the aspir message (drain did not proc for me), but she and the rest of the pt all got both drain and aspir effects simultaneously. You could assume that haste and drain sambas would work the same way... except, it seems to be glitchy at best.

[Rhinox]

Go check in ballista?


you cannot gauge anything by ballista since PvP does not follow the same rules as when fighting mobs.

[Asdra]

Go check in ballista?


you cannot gauge anything by ballista since PvP does not follow the same rules as when fighting mobs.


Wut? How do you think people have gauged everything from effect dots to the -def from things like acid bolts? You can check most things effectively in ballista. You just can't check things like melee damage formula's or accuracy, etc. Static effects llike most -def are all easily checkable.

[Eaglestrike]

Can Haste Samba and Drain Samba "stack" if two people are doing it? How exactly does the haste samba activate?

I can't comment on Haste, but I pted with a LS member who was also leveling dancer, and we tried this out with Drain and Aspir Samba (on mobs that had mp and were not undead, obviously). This was weird, and possibly a bug: She used drain, I used aspir, I only got the aspir message (drain did not proc for me), but she and the rest of the pt all got both drain and aspir effects simultaneously. You could assume that haste and drain sambas would work the same way... except, it seems to be glitchy at best.

Well, that's kind of why I ask about how haste samba activates. Drain and Aspir Samba debuff a mob with a "daze" effect, and they overwrite each other if you have two people applying sambas. But is there a "haste daze" debuff on the mob that just makes the next attack of whoever hits the mob come quicker? Or is a different kind of buff which could stack with drain samba.

[miokomioko]

Can Haste Samba and Drain Samba "stack" if two people are doing it? How exactly does the haste samba activate?

I can't comment on Haste, but I pted with a LS member who was also leveling dancer, and we tried this out with Drain and Aspir Samba (on mobs that had mp and were not undead, obviously). This was weird, and possibly a bug: She used drain, I used aspir, I only got the aspir message (drain did not proc for me), but she and the rest of the pt all got both drain and aspir effects simultaneously. You could assume that haste and drain sambas would work the same way... except, it seems to be glitchy at best.

Well, that's kind of why I ask about how haste samba activates. Drain and Aspir Samba debuff a mob with a "daze" effect, and they overwrite each other if you have two people applying sambas. But is there a "haste daze" debuff on the mob that just makes the next attack of whoever hits the mob come quicker? Or is a different kind of buff which could stack with drain samba.

Yes, the Haste Samba places a "Daze" debuff on the mob that gives any party member that strikes it a attack delay reduction (not actually haste though I don't think it affects TP return).

[Anakron]

Yes, the Haste Samba places a "Daze" debuff on the mob that gives any party member that strikes it a attack delay reduction (not actually haste though I don't think it affects TP return).Wait, if it's a delay reduction (as in Dual Wield), it should affect TP return, right? Do you know if you get a 5-10 second status (after hitting) that says your delay has been reduced? Or does the game just shorten the delay until your next swing?

[miokomioko]

Yes, the Haste Samba places a "Daze" debuff on the mob that gives any party member that strikes it a attack delay reduction (not actually haste though I don't think it affects TP return).Wait, if it's a delay reduction (as in Dual Wield), it should affect TP return, right? Do you know if you get a 5-10 second status (after hitting) that says your delay has been reduced? Or does the game just shorten the delay until your next swing?

I think it works like Hasso, where your weapon delay is reduced by a % but TP return is not affected. I guess this concept only applies to Job-Ability melee haste effects... which Haste Samba essentially is. I guess...? I'm not going to pretend I know much about this stuff.

[archibaldcrane]

Ok damnit, it's been 5 days. What affects Curing Waltz? I've heard people speculate VIT, MND, CHR among other things, but in my 19 levels of it I'm bouncing between 69 and 71 and I haven't made rhyme or reason of it. Does it get lights/darksday bonuses/penalties? Does it get Light/Dark Weather bonuses/penalties?

These few things should be easy to figure out - I'll do some testing when I get home from work if it hasn't been...

[Wizerd]

The only reason you're bouncing between 69 and 71 are gear changes or food changes. Curing Waltz is just like any other spell: under the same controls, it will ALWAYS cure the exact same amount.

That said, I went on MNK75/DNC21 and tested out some things:

67 VIT, 59 CHR = 91 cured.
68 VIT, 60 CHR = 92 cured.
83 VIT, 60 CHR = 95 cured.
83 VIT, 69 CHR = 98 cured.

I tested a few other small stat changes, and it appears only VIT and CHR affect Curing Waltz. Not sure which does more, but I'm thinking they're either the same, or CHR affects it slightly more. Gonna go test on BRD/DNC.

Edit: oh yeah, another couple things:

Out of about 15 cures during lightsday, there were no variances, so I would venture that Lightsday/Darksday and weather do not affect Curing Waltz. Under the same reasoning, Light Staff doesn't affect Curing Waltz (that's what bumped by VIT and CHR up by 1, bringing me to 92 cured from 91).


Edit2: Tested on BRD/DNC with Curing Waltz:

60 VIT for each of the following
------------------------------
70CHR = 92
71CHR = 92
72CHR = 93
73CHR = 93
74CHR = 93
75CHR = 93
76CHR = 94
77CHR = 94
78CHR = 94
79CHR = 94
80CHR = 95

I continued to test by raising my CHR by 1 each time, and it stayed true to raising 1 HP per 4 CHR, at 80, 84, 88, 92, 96, and 100.

60 VIT & 100CHR = 100 HP cured.

After this, I put etudes up (un-soul voiced or instrumented), and with 54 VIT (Errant/Light Staff) + 145 CHR I cured myself for 109.

I ran out of time so I couldn't test anymore, but if 160 VIT+CHR = 100 HP, and it goes up at 164,168,172,176,180,184,188,192,196, and 200 (I was at 199), then this works out perfectly, and in my previous edit I couldn't count so ignore it if you saw what I said here. :)

Anyway, someone make some kind of formula based on that. :P


Edit3: Fine, I will. :(

Assuming 0 CHR and 0 VIT, it looks like the minimum cured with Curing Waltz is 60 HP.

Amount Cured = ((VIT+CHR)/4)+60

That seem right?

[Yoshimiko]

Just talking to a 65 Dancer. Drain Samba III with Dagger drains for 25~ish tops, Staves for 40~ish.

Building Flourish ups his Dancing Edge by 200 points (from 400 -> 600 on average)

Wild Flourish -> Dancing Edge = Scission

Chocobo Jig = +25% Move speed

They've been in a DNC DNC DNC SCH group since lv 1.. so I can't help with other melees. >_<

[ruf]

maybe user's chr, receiver's vit? (someone said something about pld getting cured for more or something I think)

[Tsuko_Asura]

Chocobo Jig = +25% Move speed

:shock:

[Shadowhusky]

Chocobo Jig = +25% Move speed

:shock:

Same as NIN AF boots. Nothing special.

[Rowe]

Chocobo Jig = +25% Move speed

:shock:

Same as NIN AF boots. Nothing special.

My NIN AF boots only work at night.

[Delekii]

Go check in ballista?


you cannot gauge anything by ballista since PvP does not follow the same rules as when fighting mobs.
people say this often, but the vast majority of the time they only change rules for ballista if it is a specific problem for ballista - certainly they dont think about what problems something might cause for ballista BEFORE releasing it (rofl). Case in point, self destruct on release in ballista, disseverment STILL in ballista, etc etc.

you can test things in ballista, just be cautious about what results you accept as fact and what seems a little fishy.

[fantasticdan]

Chocobo Jig = +25% Move speed

:shock:

Same as NIN AF boots. Nothing special.

My NIN AF boots only work at night.

My mazurka works all the time and it's +25%, really that number is not surprising. What is surprising to me(and disappointing) is that chocobo and spectral jig are self-target only. Not sure why they didn't make them a party buff like mazurka, unless SE is intending to add higher level AoE versions?

[Shadowhusky]

On the topic of dancer. I was getting to thinking today while I was farming...Dancer could make a great farming job (Main or sub.) It uses TP to heal buff/debuff instead of MP. So pretty much zero down time. Getting TP shouldn't be much of an issue if you're only farming TW/EP mobs. And now that they get dancing edge, that just helps even more farming with a dagger. Or use a joytoy if you want for multi hits. Drain samba helps heal back HP too. Along with "haste" and you're pretty much set. Still having access to drain samba and curing waltz as a sub still helps too.

Just thinking outside the box really.

[Issac]

Dear jesus we have a 75 dancer here on siren. This guy got all jobs to 75 before toau iirc, dunno about his toau jobs though.

have a 75 SCH as well lol.

edit: make that 3 75 dnc

[Wizerd]

Dear jesus we have a 75 dancer here on siren. This guy got all jobs to 75 before toau iirc, dunno about his toau jobs though.

have a 75 SCH as well lol.

edit: make that 3 75 dnc

Koyangi posted about lv66 Dancer on your server:

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:39 am

Your post:

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:32 am

21 freaking hours from 66 to 75. That's some good consistent zombie partying right there. <_<

[Issac]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/sirenissac/img_20071127_003541a.png
All I have to say is asdfghjkl;

[Dense]

It's seems as if Drain Samba is calculated based on delay (not on DMG per hit) against a formula per level of the ability. It needs further testing, but I drain more as a low-level Dancer with Hand-to-Hand, than with my 75NIN/DNC or 75MNK/DNC. The only thing that I can assume is the delay is the attributing factor.

[miokomioko]

It's seems as if Drain Samba is calculated based on delay (not on DMG per hit) against a formula per level of the ability. It needs further testing, but I drain more as a low-level Dancer with Hand-to-Hand, than with my 75NIN/DNC or 75MNK/DNC. The only thing that I can assume is the delay is the attributing factor.

Get out the 'ol Relic Knuckles.

[Koyangi]

can use Chocobo Jig in all areas, but it's self only.

[Koeta]

maybe this is old news, but out of the 20 levels i have done as dnc i have never done more then 7 till this one time on lightsday, and it hasnt been higher then 7 since this either, drain samba 1 on lightsday for 8hp (with h2h)
(oh and i was hitting for 30's on EP/DC mobs, this mob was a T so didnt hit as hard)
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/5958/ffxiwotg005hn0.jpg

[chichicha]

Not sure what's the drain effect base on.
Try to contribute something here.

THF75/DNC35 (gimp sub ^.^;)

Used Drain Samba II , Weapons Mercurial Kris

Attached is my damage and drain, from 7 HP to 15 HP back down to 7 HP... and average dmg around 30+
SE is really confusing me :?

-----

Just done another - same weapon, but Drain Samba I

Drain effect is around 2 - 4 HP only...

[Wizerd]

maybe this is old news, but out of the 20 levels i have done as dnc i have never done more then 7 till this one time on lightsday, and it hasnt been higher then 7 since this either, drain samba 1 on lightsday for 8hp (with h2h)
(oh and i was hitting for 30's on EP/DC mobs, this mob was a T so didnt hit as hard)
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/5958/ffxiwotg005hn0.jpg

I've done drains up to 10-11 HP at points, with critical hits using HTH. It really just depends on your damage, I think.

[miokomioko]

maybe this is old news, but out of the 20 levels i have done as dnc i have never done more then 7 till this one time on lightsday, and it hasnt been higher then 7 since this either, drain samba 1 on lightsday for 8hp (with h2h)
(oh and i was hitting for 30's on EP/DC mobs, this mob was a T so didnt hit as hard)
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/5958/ffxiwotg005hn0.jpg

I've done drains up to 10-11 HP at points, with critical hits using HTH. It really just depends on your damage, I think.

Still looks plan as day to me that drain sambas vary between a low number and about half the damage your strike deals. Higher level Sambas might have a higher minimum/maximum drain no?

[Dense]

Can Haste Samba and Drain Samba "stack" if two people are doing it? How exactly does the haste samba activate?

I can't comment on Haste, but I pted with a LS member who was also leveling dancer, and we tried this out with Drain and Aspir Samba (on mobs that had mp and were not undead, obviously). This was weird, and possibly a bug: She used drain, I used aspir, I only got the aspir message (drain did not proc for me), but she and the rest of the pt all got both drain and aspir effects simultaneously. You could assume that haste and drain sambas would work the same way... except, it seems to be glitchy at best.


You place a "daze" effect on the mob when you hit it, your partymate also did the same with their aspir. I've seen it NOT give both effects but give only the effect of the partymember whose daze last proccessed, but I wasn't in that party, so perhaps there was something else happening that I am not aware of.

[Demosthenes]

VIT&CHR

Did you say something about PLD/DNC?

[ruf]

I agree about delay having something to do with it, at least for drain samba 1 (though I don't understand h2h delay enough to comment), but at level 15 using a bilbo I couldn't get over 7 drained, even when I hit for around 30, yet at level 6 I duoed with a drk who hit for 25 and drained 11.

[gamez]

I went mnk/dnc to sea last night since I hit 37 on sunday and just noticed a few things, 2-handers seemed to do about 30 with drain samba II, I was able to land steps pretty efficiently, even managed to gravity an aern.

Finishing Moves gained from steps are halved when subbed, so you only get one per step [which could seriously hurt this tanking theory subjob people are going about if you miss] but it is a great farming subjob overall for killing placeholders and kept the melee party sustained.

Aside that, last night I had the first real party where I seemed to get a workout of all aspects since I duo'd to 26 with a SAM, and after that there was always a PL present with parties I joined, I never really got much experience in a proper party.
Everything from keeping slow off NIN tanks in Crawlers Nest for those parties with a RDM main healer(in this case a BLM main healer) was a nice added bonus with drain samba 2 and a decent NIN everyone kept to full HP.
Also provided a nice back-up provoke for Ichi recast and kept box stepping to counteract cocoon the best I could while the DRK used acid bolts.
It wasn't groundbreaking EXP but it was the consistant chain 5 that a slightly good party gets, the job shined in the diversity of that specific party I suppose, I switched to federation kukri with /nin and a sarashi from impact knuckles with /mnk and h2h merits and TP was never low in supply for dances, save the few minutes I forgot to take my sunglasses off at night 8)

Other thing I noticed, though not really that exciting is that your flourish animations vary from weapon to weapon, from h2h looking something like spinning attack to viper bite with desperate flourish.
[tl;dr gtfo and get a livejournal you galka fairy]

[Rowe]

Sounds to me DNC could be a pretty good Kiter.

[safer]

how do you get tp without hitting the mob :-s

(/sam can only go so far)

[Amanada]

21 freaking hours from 66 to 75. That's some good consistent zombie partying right there. <_<

/sigh

So much a waste; ; The new jobs are not even properly tested and adjusted.

(2nd post ever... Weeee)

[Varg]

21 freaking hours from 66 to 75. That's some good consistent zombie partying right there. <_<

/sigh

So much a waste; ; The new jobs are not even properly tested and adjusted.

(2nd post ever... Weeee)


There is always a post like this when people speed through, I understand your opinion and for myself, I do agree to an extent, but their goals are clearly not the same as yours so its not really a waste to the individuals who achieved it.

As for waiting to properly test and adjust the jobs... If I were to have followed that line of thought, I wouldn't have puppetmaster at 75, in fact it would still be at level 1.

[Amanada]

Wild Flourish -> Dancing Edge = Scission

So Flourish is basically a WS?


There is always a post like this when people speed through, I understand your opinion and for myself, I do agree to an extent, but their goals are clearly not the same as yours so its not really a waste to the individuals who achieved it.

As for waiting to properly test and adjust the jobs... If I were to have followed that line of thought, I wouldn't have puppetmaster at 75, in fact it would still be at level 1.

I would at least wait for the AF before passing the 60. The AF looks cute anyway for me:P

[Falisa]

Wild Flourish -> Dancing Edge = Scission

So Flourish is basically a WS?
Wild Flourish starts a skillchain

[Koga]

Wild Flourish -> Dancing Edge = Scission

So Flourish is basically a WS?
Wild Flourish starts a skillchain
Think Chain Affinity for Dancer.

[Judai]

21 freaking hours from 66 to 75. That's some good consistent zombie partying right there. <_<
/sigh

So much a waste; ; The new jobs are not even properly tested and adjusted.

(2nd post ever... Weeee)

I don't see the thinking here. If anything, getting to 75 faster means you can test things better. Not only that, who is to say they didn't work on things while they exp'd? I'm sure most of the people leveling the job now are testing things as they exp and level up. The only way to really learn a job is to level it. If talking about AF, most jobs don't even use their AF or only use 1-2 pieces.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Note to self: Never level DNC on Imps

[Anakron]

From what I've seen (eye-balling so not very scientific), I've noticed that crits (about 2x normal hit) don't always drain more than normal hits, and when they do, it's usually within a few points, so that's a little more evidence that it's not (entirely) damage-related.

[Amanada]

Wild Flourish starts a skillchain

Think Chain Affinity for Dancer.

May be I am not understanding what exactly you meant. Even for Chain Affinity (if I not mistaken) is to combine two BLU spell or a WS to BLU spell to work. So would not:



Wild Flourish -> Dancing Edge = Scission

still require an extra WS of something to work?

/confused

(Literally, what does preparing a target to SC means exactly?)

[Judai]

Think of Wild Flourish as the opening WS that does no damage and when you follow with your own WS it creates a SC based on the ending WSs properties.

[Amanada]

Think of Wild Flourish as the opening WS that does no damage and when you follow with your own WS it creates a SC based on the ending WSs properties.

That makes more sense now. If DNC can use Shark Bite (does anyone check that yet?), then they can basically solo a level 2 SC then...

Also does anyone also checked if DNC is B+/B/B- in dagger?

[Eaglestrike]

Think of Wild Flourish as the opening WS that does no damage and when you follow with your own WS it creates a SC based on the ending WSs properties.

That makes more sense now. If DNC can use Shark Bite (does anyone check that yet?), then they can basically solo a level 2 SC then...

Also does anyone also checked if DNC is B+/B/B- in dagger?

I don't know but I bet those people who are 75 could tell you.

[Anakron]

If DNC can use Shark Bite (does anyone check that yet?), then they can basically solo a level 2 SC then...With a B in dagger, I would assume they get Evisceration, in which case they would be able to solo at least Gravitation, which I guess is fairly useless.

I'm really curious how often endgame DNCs will actually use WSs, though. With cures costing over 50TP, Haste Samba at 35TP, and Steps at 10TP each, I don't see much room for WSs.

[Kurokikaze]

If DNC can use Shark Bite (does anyone check that yet?), then they can basically solo a level 2 SC then...With a B in dagger, I would assume they get Evisceration, in which case they would be able to solo at least Gravitation, which I guess is fairly useless.

I'm really curious how often endgame DNCs will actually use WSs, though. With cures costing over 50TP, Haste Samba at 35TP, and Steps at 10TP each, I don't see much room for WSs.

Yeah. Reverse Samba needs to give more TP/step. :/

[Anakron]

If DNC can use Shark Bite (does anyone check that yet?), then they can basically solo a level 2 SC then...With a B in dagger, I would assume they get Evisceration, in which case they would be able to solo at least Gravitation, which I guess is fairly useless.

I'm really curious how often endgame DNCs will actually use WSs, though. With cures costing over 50TP, Haste Samba at 35TP, and Steps at 10TP each, I don't see much room for WSs.

Yeah. Reverse Samba needs to give more TP/step. :/I think the rate is really not too bad as it is, but the problem is that it'll share recast with the other 2 Flourish IIs, and Building or Wild Flourish will probably see more use out of the 3 in a party/alliance environment. From the description, it seems that you can set up SCs for other people (i.e. Wild Flourish > Party/Alliance Member WS = SC), can anybody confirm this?

[Shadowhusky]

If DNC can use Shark Bite (does anyone check that yet?), then they can basically solo a level 2 SC then...With a B in dagger, I would assume they get Evisceration, in which case they would be able to solo at least Gravitation, which I guess is fairly useless.

I'm really curious how often endgame DNCs will actually use WSs, though. With cures costing over 50TP, Haste Samba at 35TP, and Steps at 10TP each, I don't see much room for WSs.

I don't remember where, but it's been stated that DNC get's Evisceration. Highly doubt on shark bite though.

[Judai]

If DNC can use Shark Bite (does anyone check that yet?), then they can basically solo a level 2 SC then...With a B in dagger, I would assume they get Evisceration, in which case they would be able to solo at least Gravitation, which I guess is fairly useless.

I'm really curious how often endgame DNCs will actually use WSs, though. With cures costing over 50TP, Haste Samba at 35TP, and Steps at 10TP each, I don't see much room for WSs.

I don't remember where, but it's been stated that DNC get's Evisceration. Highly doubt on shark bite though.

Not that it can be relied on but a DNC in one of the videos used Evis.

[Naphtali]

They do get Shark Bite I think.

[Spoony Bob]

68 dancer on leviathan with 'shark bite' '/hello' in auto translation brackets in their search comment, so it's a safe bet they do.

[Turtlesoup]

Dancer gets Shark Bite, and Evisceration also.

[Damane]

Dancer gets Shark Bite, and Evisceration also.

now why does my corsair with a B skill in dagger not get shark bite and dangeing edge :lol:

[archibaldcrane]

Now why does Dancer not get access to Blau Dolch, X's Knife, Perseus's Harpe or Sirocco Kukrifixed.

[Lilswitche]

Now why does Dancer not get access to Blau Dolch, X's Knife, Perseus's Harpe or Sirocco Kukrifixed.

Scholar gets Blau Dolch though, I hope that suffices.

[archibaldcrane]

Scholar gets Blau Dolch though, I hope that suffices.Heh, that's like Thief getting Destroyers and not PUP, or Corsair getting Joyeuse and not BLU.

[BRP]

SE determines weapon equipment by types. Knuckles, Knives, Rapiers, etc etc, so they limited certain jobs on what subtypes of weapons they can use. It may just so happen the best weapon of that type belongs to a subtype they can't equip.

[Max™]

SE determines weapon equipment by types. Knuckles, Knives, Rapiers, etc etc, so they limited certain jobs on what subtypes of weapons they can use. It may just so happen the best weapon of that type belongs to a subtype they can't equip.

Ridill/Seiryu's Sword= Falchion, just like Bloody Blade and that I.M. Scimitar, aren't they?

Where are the Blu's dual wielding them?

[Wizerd]

SE determines weapon equipment by types. Knuckles, Knives, Rapiers, etc etc, so they limited certain jobs on what subtypes of weapons they can use. It may just so happen the best weapon of that type belongs to a subtype they can't equip.

Ridill/Seiryu's Sword= Falchion, just like Bloody Blade and that I.M. Scimitar, aren't they?

Where are the Blu's dual wielding them?

High end weapons require higher skill to wield, and therefore only certain jobs can possibly know how? <_< Maybe. I dunno, since when has SE stuck to their own rules?

[BRP]

SE are dicks, they don't have an excuse for that one. They probably wanted people out of sky and aery or something.

[fantasticdan]

SE determines weapon equipment by types. Knuckles, Knives, Rapiers, etc etc, so they limited certain jobs on what subtypes of weapons they can use. It may just so happen the best weapon of that type belongs to a subtype they can't equip.

You mean kind of like how dancer can equip all kukri class daggers EXCEPT the one that they would actually want to use? Sirocco kukri of coarse... Or like how dancer can equip all knife class daggers except X's knife?

EDIT: Can't use magnet knife either for whatever reason.

[Bariss]

I read DNC gets Evisceration and Shark Bite, does it get Dancing edge also? :oops:

[Lordwafik]

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/6339/reed3re9.jpg

the

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/9416/100polyestersewingthreakl5.jpg

[LD]

"Leaves the Thread."

[Max™]

Reed.

[Bariss]

Why do i have to read through a 12 page thread? I read the last few pages in hopes of seeing it. I didn't.

Does it?

[Max™]

Why do i have to read through a 12 page thread? I read the last few pages in hopes of seeing it. I didn't.

Does it?


Why do we have to give an answer instead of being smartasses?

[Bariss]

Prick :D

[Kiarax]

You did a terrible job in reading the last few pages, it's quoted multiple times on page 11 that Wild Flourish > Dancing Edge = Scission. If you still don't get it, yes they get Dancing Edge. :roll:

[Wizerd]

You did a terrible job in reading the last few pages, it's quoted multiple times on page 11 that Wild Flourish > Dancing Edge = Scission. If you still don't get it, yes they get Dancing Edge. :roll:

Maybe he thinks you can sub Wild Flourish haha.

[epigram]

I don't really understand the sirocco and X's knife complaint. Job only weapons tend to remain Job only. Why can't dancer use the RDM only epee class swords? Because they are RDM only? X's knife drops from a dual jobbed BST&THF mithra and both BST and THF have dagger skills, it wouldn't make sense to suddenly toss in DNC.

Why they can't use blau? I would consider that an actual mystery.

[fantasticdan]

I don't really understand the sirocco and X's knife complaint. Job only weapons tend to remain Job only. Why can't dancer use the RDM only epee class swords? Because they are RDM only?

Actually dnc is now listed on both mensur epee and company fleuret. None of the epees are rdm only thou, except the one from nyzle, for some reason drg can equip the rest.

Job only argument doesn't make much sense anyway, there were plenty of guns cor was added too that were previously rng only. Dnc is the only other job besides thf to specialize in using daggers, so it's not that crazy to add them onto those weapons... espeicially the ones they can normally equip from that class, like magnet knife or sirroco for dnc.


X's knife drops from a dual jobbed BST&THF mithra and both BST and THF have dagger skills, it wouldn't make sense to suddenly toss in DNC.

Shikaree X is bst & nin, not thf. She summons bst pets, dual-wields, and casts ninjitsu. I guess they should take thf off X's knife and put nin on it right?

[Vigion]

Dancer gets Shark Bite, and Evisceration also.

now why does my corsair with a B skill in dagger not get shark bite and dangeing edge :lol:

I have 75COR and really wouldn't complain about this. A) We have Slug shot, B) Our rolls don't cost TP. If dancer wants to use TP on those weaponskills then they should have the choice to. I really can't picture many Dancers using TP on weaponskills in many situations. Also might I add Bariss you're a fucktard.

[lost071]

I think that basically SE limits the jobs dagger selection is because SE doesn't want this job to be a DD. Some people seem to think that DNC is a DD for some reason, and its just not.

[Meiyu]

I think that basically SE limits the jobs dagger selection is because SE doesn't want this job to be a DD. Some people seem to think that DNC is a DD for some reason, and its just not.

If they didn't want DNC to be a DD, they could have withheld all of the decent dagger WS, not limited it's dagger usage. If they want DNC to expend decent amounts of tp to do their job effectively, they could have at least allowed the job to use a Mercurial Kris...

As far as I can see, DNC will HAVE to "dd" to get tp effectively (I doubt /SAM will be real solution, and reverse flourish can only go so far), and I doubt DNC will ever be using WS's since their job abilities rely on it so... it seems backwards to me that we have access to decent WS's yet can't use a MK...

[eva00r]

I think that basically SE limits the jobs dagger selection is because SE doesn't want this job to be a DD. Some people seem to think that DNC is a DD for some reason, and its just not.

If they didn't want DNC to be a DD, they could have withheld all of the decent dagger WS, not limited it's dagger usage. If they want DNC to expend decent amounts of tp to do their job effectively, they could have at least allowed the job to use a Mercurial Kris...

As far as I can see, DNC will HAVE to "dd" to get tp effectively (I doubt /SAM will be real solution, and reverse flourish can only go so far), and I doubt DNC will ever be using WS's since their job abilities rely on it so... it seems backwards to me that we have access to decent WS's yet can't use a MK...

"DD" is damage dealing, getting tp effectively doesn't mean you have to do high damage. Hitting the mob with the most accuracy that won't make 0 damage is enough to get TP. Plus you cannot use WS every 100TP just like other jobs, WS or not is really situation dependant - unless you have 4-5 finishing moves on your stock and Reversing Flourish is ready.

[Anakron]

I think that basically SE limits the jobs dagger selection is because SE doesn't want this job to be a DD. Some people seem to think that DNC is a DD for some reason, and its just not.

If they didn't want DNC to be a DD, they could have withheld all of the decent dagger WS, not limited it's dagger usage. If they want DNC to expend decent amounts of tp to do their job effectively, they could have at least allowed the job to use a Mercurial Kris...

As far as I can see, DNC will HAVE to "dd" to get tp effectively (I doubt /SAM will be real solution, and reverse flourish can only go so far), and I doubt DNC will ever be using WS's since their job abilities rely on it so... it seems backwards to me that we have access to decent WS's yet can't use a MK...

"DD" is damage dealing, getting tp effectively doesn't mean you have to do high damage. Hitting the mob with the most accuracy that won't make 0 damage is enough to get TP. Plus you cannot use WS every 100TP just like other jobs, WS or not is really situation dependant - unless you have 4-5 finishing moves on your stock and Reversing Flourish is ready.
I think that's why she put quotes around "dd."

I wonder for some LSs, how often they'd want DNCs to get just enough TP (/SAM, SAM feeding, or sleeping) to sustain Stutter Step and won't let them do anything else.

[Sukili]

I think that basically SE limits the jobs dagger selection is because SE doesn't want this job to be a DD. Some people seem to think that DNC is a DD for some reason, and its just not.

If they didn't want DNC to be a DD, they could have withheld all of the decent dagger WS, not limited it's dagger usage. If they want DNC to expend decent amounts of tp to do their job effectively, they could have at least allowed the job to use a Mercurial Kris...

As far as I can see, DNC will HAVE to "dd" to get tp effectively (I doubt /SAM will be real solution, and reverse flourish can only go so far), and I doubt DNC will ever be using WS's since their job abilities rely on it so... it seems backwards to me that we have access to decent WS's yet can't use a MK...

This is my major issue. Why make a job entirely dependent on TP and only give it's main weapon a B rating? The selection (or better yet, exclusion) of knives/kurris/rapiers is debatable for lots of jobs. At least give DNC multiple Accuracy Bonuses like RNG or a higher rating. Either way, endgame I see a lot hits for 0 damage in my future >.<

[Pergo]

it's because when they're designing the new jobs, they're trying to balance everything out. like puppetmaster, they wanted a balance between PC and pet...if they had A or B h2h and Asuran Fists, certain people would probably be able to break the job.

with dancer, they're a frontline healer, so SE wanted to give them the means to efficiently produce their tp to be able to use all their abilities. they're given decent ws (and frontline abilities) to balance that they can't heal as efficiently as a real mage. i doubt that giving dnc a blau and whatnot would break the job, but i understand their caution as to making sure it doesn't go too far out of its boundaries

[Eaglestrike]

If DNC could use Blau Dolch or Mandau I'd be taking it to 75. Until that happens I'll have it sitting at 37 (once I get it there at least lol)

[Fadian]

Why not remake a new post with all the information found in these 12 pages.

All Job Abilities/Traits. their description. Their use. confirmed weapon skills. Confirmed End Game possible Gear setup. What is best to use for Cure's. sooo much info I been reading in the 12 pages that I bet we could start a new thread. and just.... convert all the info into one. and just update the main page with new info.


P.S. No I'm not making that post. i'm lazy and at work. don't have the time.

[Max™]

I'm happy that I'll be able to play with Dancing Edge, and Shark Bite, wear a cute little flamenco outfit (go go taru!) and taru dancing animations are awesome to boot.

The fact that I'll also finally have a job that can support/cure, without using MP is just pure win.

[Yoshimiko]

Any word on if Haste is on the Magic or gear cap? Or are they gonna give our DRKs 98.3% haste? :D

[ruf]

At least give DNC multiple Accuracy Bonuses like RNG or a higher rating. Either way, endgame I see a lot hits for 0 damage in my future >.<


Don't the multiple traits usually get found through testing, since they're not posted in the trait list multiple times?

[Lebzile]

So, is it true that the drain effect from Drain Samba does not deduct from mobs HP? I skimmed through the thread and didn't see any 100% yes/no. @@

Sorry if it was posted, kinda read a line from each post just to see what discussion was swapping to and from.

[Kurokikaze]

So, is it true that the drain effect from Drain Samba does not deduct from mobs HP? I skimmed through the thread and didn't see any 100% yes/no. @@

Sorry if it was posted, kinda read a line from each post just to see what discussion was swapping to and from.

True.

[Vail]

even with Dancer having these weapon skills I can't imagine them doing alot of damage, lacking sneak attack, lacking access a large majority of WS gear.

I don't see Dancer wearing much more then maybe some merman/coral armor/dusk and phal-set

[Yoshimiko]

Building Flourish increases your next WSes damage by about 200~300 points. (400-600~700 Dancing Edge, from a lv 65 DNC on Alexander)

[Xanthe]

Building Flourish increases your next WSes damage by about 200~300 points. (400-600~700 Dancing Edge, from a lv 65 DNC on Alexander)
Would be interesting to see if that works similarly to Sneak Attack.

[Neosutra]

Building Flourish increases your next WSes damage by about 200~300 points. (400-600~700 Dancing Edge, from a lv 65 DNC on Alexander)
Would be interesting to see if that works similarly to Sneak Attack.

Or if it even stacks with SA.

60DNC/30THF Building Flourish -> SATA -> Dancing Edge -> 1000 damage added to tanks hate.

I dont see a reason atm why it wouldnt stack.

[Beckwin]

SA from /thf would only ensure the first hit of DE to crit, so I wouldn't expect that kind of damage.

[Neosutra]

SA from /thf would only ensure the first hit of DE to crit, so I wouldn't expect that kind of damage.


True, my mistake.

All and all DNC seems kinda ballanced, you trade alot of utility at no mp cost for having to give the mob TP and not being able to WS as much or at all. Im going to get one of our salvage members to sub dnc this week and see how much it helps out the mages on keeping everyone alive.

[Shadowhusky]

SA from /thf would only ensure the first hit of DE to crit, so I wouldn't expect that kind of damage.

SA on THF main is the same way. First hit to crit/land 100%

[Godlywargod]

SA from /thf would only ensure the first hit of DE to crit, so I wouldn't expect that kind of damage.

SA on THF main is the same way. First hit to crit/land 100%

SA on THF main also give a base damage addition from dex.......

[Shadowhusky]

SA from /thf would only ensure the first hit of DE to crit, so I wouldn't expect that kind of damage.

SA on THF main is the same way. First hit to crit/land 100%

SA on THF main also give a base damage addition from dex.......

That wasn't what I was talking about though, but yes ;x

[Tsutsumiko]

I think that basically SE limits the jobs dagger selection is because SE doesn't want this job to be a DD. Some people seem to think that DNC is a DD for some reason, and its just not.

If they didn't want DNC to be a DD, they could have withheld all of the decent dagger WS, not limited it's dagger usage. If they want DNC to expend decent amounts of tp to do their job effectively, they could have at least allowed the job to use a Mercurial Kris...

As far as I can see, DNC will HAVE to "dd" to get tp effectively (I doubt /SAM will be real solution, and reverse flourish can only go so far), and I doubt DNC will ever be using WS's since their job abilities rely on it so... it seems backwards to me that we have access to decent WS's yet can't use a MK...

I'm inclined to agree. In my first 40 or so levels of DNC, I would much rather have crappy WS than crappy weapon selection. I mean so far dagger has been a joke outside of Fed Kukris. Lack of MK is also pretty much crap as well.

I NEVER find myself using Weapon Skills unless I have a full stock of Finishing Moves ready to fire off with Reverse Flourish. And even then the damage is pitiful. I just save my TP. I've noticed that the JP DNC players I XP with also save their TP. I only see the NA players usually using the WSes and then I see them hit for about 20 damage, if that. It just seems far more efficient to save your TP. My parties hit higher chains when I use TP for healing and enfeebles over WSes. XPWatch shows this pretty accurately too.

Weapons > WS (for DNC) :-/

[Godlywargod]

SA from /thf would only ensure the first hit of DE to crit, so I wouldn't expect that kind of damage.

SA on THF main is the same way. First hit to crit/land 100%

SA on THF main also give a base damage addition from dex.......

That wasn't what I was talking about though, but yes ;x

Their discussion was that /thf wont add a lot of damage to your ws because it only gives a 100% crit on the first hit..... you made it seem like thats all SA did of thf main.

edit for discussion >.>

[Iggystar]

How many levels will Bone Knife +1 last? (Mainhand/Offhand)

[Anakron]

How many levels will Bone Knife +1 last? (Mainhand/Offhand)I browsed the AH for daggers as well, and it seems like they'll last all the way until Behemoths unless you're forced to upgrade because of hitting for 0. Depending on party/alliance needs, the 5 ACC might even make up for the +14DMG output since nobody's really expecting damage from a DNC. At least that was my plan; I have no experience with daggers in general, so there may be better, non-AH options out there.

[archibaldcrane]

How many levels will Bone Knife +1 last? (Mainhand/Offhand)I browsed the AH for daggers as well, and it seems like they'll last all the way until Behemoths unless you're forced to upgrade because of hitting for 0.Hitting for 0 isn't a factor of Base WDMG - it's solely a factor of attack vs. enemy defense. Given that Bone Knife+1 gives +5 attack, it's slightly less likely to hit for 0 than even a weapon of significantly higher base damage (Like Matron's Knife for example). That being said, the selection is very similar to Thief for daggers that you'd want to use going up to endgame - Darksteel Kukri+1 and Cermet Kukri+1 are both usable for DNC. After that, Behemoth Knife+1 and Matron's Knife are your best non-Jambiya options - with Adder Jambiya+1 being by far and away the best option (good luck with the Star Sapphire and HQing it).

[Delekii]

How many levels will Bone Knife +1 last? (Mainhand/Offhand)I browsed the AH for daggers as well, and it seems like they'll last all the way until Behemoths unless you're forced to upgrade because of hitting for 0.Hitting for 0 isn't a factor of Base WDMG - it's solely a factor of attack vs. enemy defense. Given that Bone Knife+1 gives +5 attack, it's slightly less likely to hit for 0 than even a weapon of significantly higher base damage (Like Matron's Knife for example). That being said, the selection is very similar to Thief for daggers that you'd want to use going up to endgame - Darksteel Kukri+1 and Cermet Kukri+1 are both usable for DNC. After that, Behemoth Knife+1 and Matron's Knife are your best non-Jambiya options - with Adder Jambiya+1 being by far and away the best option (good luck with the Star Sapphire and HQing it).
If you have negative fstr then base damage certainly is a factor of hitting for 0.

[Falisa]

I didn't see anyone else post this but something thats been annoying me while leveling DNC. I dunno if its a glitch or it happens with everything else (I dont work with additional effects very often!) but whenever Im using Curing Waltz or something like that, and I attack the mob in the middle of the JA, Drain samba doesnt proc. :\ Would definatly help out in the long run with soloing if that didnt happen because it happens a few times when Im fighting stuff.

[ruf]

noticed that too, but I think my HP still goes up by a few even if I don't see the effect, not totally certain.

[Falisa]

Oh I never thought to actually look at my HP when it happens. I'll do that next time to see if I actually gain some HP. :o

[Rionel]

Another interesting find on Dancer (from Allakhazham, yet again):

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=19;mid=119628603022861192;num=8;pag e=1

So, you can stack Sneak Attack with Quickstep(-Evasion), Box Step(-Defense), Stutter Step(-Magic Defense), Desperate Flourish(Gravity) and Violent Flourish(Stun) to make them all 100% hit rate... or so the thread says anyway.

Hopefully they're right! I admit it sounds a little exciting to hear about Steps and some Flourishes working with Sneak Attack but, I hope the 1 minute timer won't be too long to make it not useful. Though it's all situational, right?

[Lyramion]

Ghetto faint?

[Delekii]

Ghetto faint?
the fact that the eva/def down steps can be stacked up to 5 times leads me to believe that individually they are probably quite weak..

[chichicha]

I'm inclined to agree. In my first 40 or so levels of DNC, I would much rather have crappy WS than crappy weapon selection. I mean so far dagger has been a joke outside of Fed Kukris. Lack of MK is also pretty much crap as well.

I NEVER find myself using Weapon Skills unless I have a full stock of Finishing Moves ready to fire off with Reverse Flourish. And even then the damage is pitiful. I just save my TP. I've noticed that the JP DNC players I XP with also save their TP. I only see the NA players usually using the WSes and then I see them hit for about 20 damage, if that. It just seems far more efficient to save your TP. My parties hit higher chains when I use TP for healing and enfeebles over WSes. XPWatch shows this pretty accurately too.

Weapons > WS (for DNC) :-/

I play DNC, whenever there is main healer, I do spam Cyclone. At lvl 44-46, dmg is around 90-180. I spam Steps too, whenever 4 steps I have, I do spam again Reverse to get 46TP back. I can usually load 2 x Cyclone in one fight. I like spamming lmao.
Only problem, just can't use Cyclone in pack camp with mobs, but so far, I haven't been to any camp with other mobs around. Hmm... also, when BRD pulled back second mobs, slept it next to us, he/she hated me LOL

I can see that SE is trying to balance things out, they won't let DNC have MK, as I don't have problem to get TP. However, I am a lucky taru with Peacock Amulet and others acc gears ^.^;



the fact that the eva/def down steps can be stacked up to 5 times leads me to believe that individually they are probably quite weak..

I remembered I read at somewhere, each steps is like reducing their eva, def, magic def -5.
I did a "Kinda" manaburn party, BLM and Scholar likes the Magic Def Debuff, they said their magic never get resisted.

p.s. I tried SA + Viper Bite, it's lamed... even though I stacked with all DEX gears and etc, still getting two figure dmg only :( (I am Thief75)

[ruf]

I'm kinda thinking of TPing as /healing and WSing as casting holy, except it uses all of your TP (no, I don't have reverse flourish yet). Only plan on using a WS if I want a chuckle or if it's the last mob of a party.

[archibaldcrane]

If you have negative fstr then base damage certainly is a factor of hitting for 0.Only at the point where you'd otherwise be hitting for 1 with a higher base damage dagger, and for the purposes of this discussion - comparing Bone Knife +1 to anything that may be better (without obviously being so), you're looking at the 23 base damage Cermet (or Darksteel) Kukri +1 as the "best competitor", and from what I can tell it isn't possible to find a situation of STR and Attack with 18 WDMG, vs. same STR and Attack-5 with 23 WDMG, where you'd be hitting for a minimum of 1 with the latter and not with the former. However, I can find situations where +5 attack from Bone Knife +1 allows for a minimum attack of 1, while +5 Base Damage from Cermet Kukri+1 still allows for a minimum attack of 0. (lvl 60, 50 STR, 395 base attack vs. lvl 72, 85 VIT, 374 defense mob)

Base damage is such an incredibly minor consideration when hitting for 0 for TP gain that it can effectively be completely disregarded in this Dancer argument, given the possible options to be considered.

/mathoff

[Koyangi]

Aspir Samba 2 costs 25 TP.

Wild Flourish has a 30 second cooldown for the FlourishII menu after using it, Penta Thrust made compression, Rampage did Scission.

[Max™]

Wait, did you not WS yourself?

That could be super awesome if you can just toss it out there to open a three man SC for two melees.

[Wizerd]

I'm kinda thinking of TPing as /healing and WSing as casting holy, except it uses all of your TP (no, I don't have reverse flourish yet). Only plan on using a WS if I want a chuckle or if it's the last mob of a party.

The major difference is that our maximum remains the same from lv1 to lv75 (300 TP), so if you're gaining more TP than you're using over time in a battle, then timing your weapon skills at the right time is smart. I hate these other Dancers that I'm partying with that are constantly going up in TP for the first 20min, then hit 300% TP and never drop below 200%. Whereas I'm using TP every battle or two and still consistently healing my party members as needed, and performing my dances/steps.

At lv75 with 300 TP, with Curing Waltz IV costing 65(I assume?) TP, it's like our max MP is always 623, but we gain our "MP" a lot faster than mages do.


Also, I noticed that Reverse Flourish gives you more than 10 TP back per FM, if used with more than a couple of them. The number 5 appears relatively frequently in Dancer (at the very least, the steps stack to 5 and the FMs do), so I'm wondering if the steps might act like Reverse Flourish, in that maybe the first 2 steps give -5, but then the 3rd is -6, etc. It should be possible in Ballista with Box Step, but I haven't seen any actual test results here yet other than "hearing" than it's -5 evasion per Quickstep.

[Caestus]

75 SCH and 75 DNC already on Caitsith


Ena is the 75 Dancer and Dragunov is the Scholor.


Ena has confirmed without adoubt dancer gets Dancing edge


edit: what subs is everyone liking so far? my dancer is level 10 and i like sub MNK but what else do you all think? 20 NIN and dual wield Daggers. what about 10-20?

[Ruth]

Why not remake a new post with all the information found in these 12 pages.

All Job Abilities/Traits. their description. Their use. confirmed weapon skills. Confirmed End Game possible Gear setup. What is best to use for Cure's. sooo much info I been reading in the 12 pages that I bet we could start a new thread. and just.... convert all the info into one. and just update the main page with new info.


P.S. No I'm not making that post. i'm lazy and at work. don't have the time.


Done (not by me) http://wiki.bluegartr.com/Dancer

[Wizerd]

75 SCH and 75 DNC already on Caitsith


Ena is the 75 Dancer and Dragunov is the Scholor.


Ena has confirmed without adoubt dancer gets Dancing edge


edit: what subs is everyone liking so far? my dancer is level 10 and i like sub MNK but what else do you all think? 20 NIN and dual wield Daggers. what about 10-20?

I subbed MNK to about 18, then started feeling too slow, switched to /BRD to solo worms to 20 for Minuet, then /NIN @ 20 for Dual Wield. I've kept /NIN for now but if Sneak Attack really makes all the steps and those Flourishes 100% hit rate, I can see using /THF on a lot of mobs, situationally, if stun would be useful. It wouldn't be too hard to stay behind the mob, and it'd only be useful for stunning things with more than a really quick wind-up timer, since using Sneak Attack eliminates a second before you can stun.

I don't see myself using /WAR, and /SAM doesn't seem like it'll be enough of a TP increase to warrant using it.

[Bariss]

75 SCH and 75 DNC already on Caitsith


Ena is the 75 Dancer and Dragunov is the Scholor.


Ena has confirmed without adoubt dancer gets Dancing edge


edit: what subs is everyone liking so far? my dancer is level 10 and i like sub MNK but what else do you all think? 20 NIN and dual wield Daggers. what about 10-20?

/mnk 10-20

you can /nin 20-30, or others like /rng is a good choice also :)

[Wizerd]

/mnk 10-20

you can /nin 20-30, or others like /rng is a good choice also :)

Oh wow, I didn't realize RNG got accuracy bonus at 10, if I had to redo 20-30 I'd probably do /RNG for sure haha.

[Xanthe]

edit: what subs is everyone liking so far? my dancer is level 10 and i like sub MNK but what else do you all think? 20 NIN and dual wield Daggers. what about 10-20?
Currently DNC25. I used /MNK with H2H until 20 and then switched to /NIN with +acc daggers. H2H early on helps boost your base damage and there are several options with +acc on them, much better than the dagger selection available at that time. The last couple levels before 20 were annoying though because the gap between H2H and dagger skill was becoming apparent, even if it was only a difference of 5 at the time. From 20 and onward I think that /NIN and the +acc dagger line is definitely the way to go.

In the few parties I had going through Qufim I had another DNC besides myself and the results were fantastic. There were a few situations where we aggro'd a wight and would have wiped if we had a traditional whm or rdm main healer. As long as you can keep up your TP supply (sushi and quickstep are key) it's hard to be overwhelmed. Also of note, steps of the same type stack between dancers, so it's very easy to quickly get a lvl5 effect with multiple dancers in the party/alliance.

Regarding Spectral Jig, since I didn't see anyone else go into detail about it. Spectral Jig gives you the individual effects of Sneak and Invisible and it is not it's own status. The effects apply instantly on use, but the animation is about 4-5 seconds. Both effects will wear off at the same rate. You can't reapply it before your effects wear unless you cancel your Sneak effect first. If you don't wait or don't cancel your sneak effect, the invisible effect will NOT reapply. The recast is 30 seconds and the duration I was seeing at 25 was anywhere from :50 to 1:30, but I seem to recall Sneak and Invisible being about as finicky at that level (and sometimes still are at 75 :roll:).

[ringthree]

75 SCH and 75 DNC already on Caitsith


Ena is the 75 Dancer and Dragunov is the Scholor.


Ena has confirmed without adoubt dancer gets Dancing edge


edit: what subs is everyone liking so far? my dancer is level 10 and i like sub MNK but what else do you all think? 20 NIN and dual wield Daggers. what about 10-20?

I subbed MNK to about 18, then started feeling too slow, switched to /BRD to solo worms to 20 for Minuet, then /NIN @ 20 for Dual Wield. I've kept /NIN for now but if Sneak Attack really makes all the steps and those Flourishes 100% hit rate, I can see using /THF on a lot of mobs, situationally, if stun would be useful. It wouldn't be too hard to stay behind the mob, and it'd only be useful for stunning things with more than a really quick wind-up timer, since using Sneak Attack eliminates a second before you can stun.

I don't see myself using /WAR, and /SAM doesn't seem like it'll be enough of a TP increase to warrant using it.

I don't know if SA will matter if it just helps the Flourishes land. It will make a great difference if it makes the Flourishes proc 100% though.

The recast on Steps are so low that using SA to just get one to land may not really be worth it.

[VZX]

So anyone confirm the effectiveness of haste samba?

Hitting the target while it is under this effect will significantly reduce the weapon delay of the attacker for that round by about 40% Verification Needed.
I found that is 'too good' to be true

[Wizerd]

Just got to 32 Dancer today, from 28 earlier, so I hopped onto BRD/DNC again to test out what the formula was.

BRD/DNC with Curing Waltz II:

62 VIT for each of the following
------------------------------
68CHR = 195
69CHR = 195
70CHR = 196
71CHR = 196
72CHR = 197
73CHR = 197
74CHR = 198
75CHR = 198
76CHR = 199
77CHR = 199
78CHR = 200
79CHR = 200
80CHR = 201
81CHR = 201

I continued to test by raising my CHR by 1 each time again, and again it stayed true to what it looked like: raising 1 HP per 2 CHR.

Assuming 0 CHR and 0 VIT, the minimum cured with Curing Waltz is 130 HP.

So Curing Waltz II's formula is:

Amount Cured = ((VIT+CHR)/2)+130

VIT being the value of the player being cast on, and CHR being the Dancer's.

[Xanthe]

So Curing Waltz II's formula is:

Amount Cured = ((VIT+CHR)/2)+130

VIT being the value of the player being cast on, and CHR being the Dancer's.
Gven that information, it looks like Tuna Sushi is good to use.

[Wizerd]

So Curing Waltz II's formula is:

Amount Cured = ((VIT+CHR)/2)+130

VIT being the value of the player being cast on, and CHR being the Dancer's.
Gven that information, it looks like Tuna Sushi is good to use.
I think so.

Based on this and my Curing Waltz I testing, I think Curing Waltz III will be 1 CHR increases amount cured by 1, and for Curing Waltz IV, it'll be 1 CHR cures an additional 2 HP.

It's apparent that with normal gear setups, DNC's Cures will end up equalling a basic WHM's cures at lv75, and with heavy CHR setups, it'll be like a WHM with a nobles and a Light Staff on.

The addition of a healer that can cure for as much as Cure V is a welcome addition in my books, especially if it ends up getting the reduced enmity that Cure V has.

[Xanthe]

So Curing Waltz II's formula is:

Amount Cured = ((VIT+CHR)/2)+130

VIT being the value of the player being cast on, and CHR being the Dancer's.
Gven that information, it looks like Tuna Sushi is good to use.
I think so.

Based on this and my Curing Waltz I testing, I think Curing Waltz III will be 1 CHR increases amount cured by 1, and for Curing Waltz IV, it'll be 1 CHR cures an additional 2 HP.

It's apparent that with normal gear setups, DNC's Cures will end up equalling a basic WHM's cures at lv75, and with heavy CHR setups, it'll be like a WHM with a nobles and a Light Staff on.

The addition of a healer that can cure for as much as Cure V is a welcome addition in my books, especially if it ends up getting the reduced enmity that Cure V has.
I'm hoping this turns out to be the case. One thing I've always disliked about WHM is how "uninvolved" it feels. It's not that I don't like supporting, I just like to be in the thick of things. Dancer seems to combine the two very nicely in a way that wouldn't have me falling asleep 15 minutes into an event, along with some very nice enfeebles. Looking forward to higher levels to see how it pans out.

[LD]

Kinda funny how a galka performing it would get the least benefit, but a galka receiving it gets the most. :x

...I get the feeling I just wrote a straight line....

Has a cap been found? Is there a limit to how much CHR/VIT benefits?

[Yoshimiko]

That dancer I spoke of earlier is now 75.
He has evisceration + shark bite
Wild Flourish -> Shark bite = No skill chain.
Wild Flourish -> Evisceration = Transfiction
Reverse Flourish = 10 tp for 1 point, 46 tp for 4 points, 60 tp for 5 points
Curing Waltze IV = 591 hp heal. He has 66-3 CHR.

[Asdra]

Thats really nice. Build 5 finishing moves from throwing on -def or -evasion on merit mobs, then bust them all for 60 tp to throw into more stuff. Becomes almost self-perpetuating.

[Xanthe]

That dancer I spoke of earlier is now 75.
He has evisceration + shark bite
Wild Flourish -> Shark bite = No skill chain.
Wild Flourish -> Evisceration = Transfiction
Reverse Flourish = 10 tp for 1 point, 46 tp for 4 points, 60 tp for 5 points
Curing Waltze IV = 591 hp heal. He has 66-3 CHR.
Hmm, sounds Wild Flourish will always carry a level 1 WS property since it didn't interact with Shark Bite, which only can close off of Fusion or Gravitation. I'm guessing that Wild Flourish works like so:

1. DNC uses Wild Flourish, acting as a generic level 1 WS property.
2. Another WS is used on the mob.
3. Skillchain is determined based on the property of the WS used. If multiple level 1 properties exist, the one with highest precedence is used ('A' on Adennak's chart).

Applying the above to your examples and others we have:
1. Wild Flourish
2. Shark Bite (Fragmentation)
3. No skillchain since Wild Flourish cannot act as a Fusion or Gravitation property.

1. Wild Flourish
2. Evisceration (Gravitation A/Transfixion B)
3. Transfixion with Wild Flourish taking the Compression property.

1. Wild Flourish
2. Dancing Edge (Scission A/Detonation B)
3. Scission with Wild Flourish taking either the Liquefaction or Detonation property.

Other combinations to try with Wild Flourish > Dagger WS:
- Wasp Sting, Viper Bite: predicting Scission and not Distortion
- Shadowstitch: predicting Reverberation and not Fragmentation
- Gust Slash: predicting Detonation
- Cyclone: predicting Detonation and not Impaction or Fusion

Has there been a 100% confirmed level 2 skillchain opened with Wild Flourish? I think that's the only thing that could debunk what I've said above. Would need to be done under controlled circumstances so another random WS couldn't throw things off.

[VZX]

I don't think Flourish is anything like WS...
it simply trigger SC : "If you do WS, its SC effect will be enabled"
Since
WF -> Penta enable compression (SC property: compression only)
WF -> Rampage or DE enable scission (Scission / Primary scission respectively)

I have vague memory where someone said WF -> SB will generate frag.

[ruf]

Responding to wizerd: yeah, I think TP can be used for WS under the right situation. I just had a party with an actual healer instead of two dancers healing and it did seem like there were times when we were just sitting on TP. Anyway I'm only 25 on the job so theres no useful WS and having a near full store of TP has been nice when there were emergencies or particularly evasive mobs.

[Xanthe]

I don't think Flourish is anything like WS...
it simply trigger SC : "If you do WS, its SC effect will be enabled"
Since
WF -> Penta enable compression (SC property: compression only)
WF -> Rampage or DE enable scission (Scission / Primary scission respectively)

I have vague memory where someone said WF -> SB will generate frag.
That's exactly what I described above. Wild Flourish acts as a generic opener and a weapon skill's primary level 1 property will determine the skillchain. Yoshimiki also posted above that he talked with a DNC75 and Wild Fourish > Shark Bite does nothing. If that made something, then Wild Flourish > Evisceration would also have to make Gravitation and not Transfixion, since it's primary element is Gravitation.

[Anakron]

Yea, the extra TP is great for emergencies, especially when you can't sleep a link. Since the Waltzes are JAs, you can basically spam yourself to stay alive until the first mob dies, even if both are beating on you at once (which usually makes Curing impossible).

[Yoshimiko]

Do all steps give 2 finishing moves? If so would Reverse Flourish at 4 be more efficient then at 5?

[Wizerd]

Do all steps give 2 finishing moves? If so would Reverse Flourish at 4 be more efficient then at 5?

Yes, in an exp party or other places where mobs die fast.


I did some testing with Box Step since it's the only one of the 3 steps that can give exact numbers without taking a really long time to test (checking mobs changing accuracy / DEX gear while trying to keep a certain level of Quickstep on a mob would be annoying and difficult).

In Brenner, I went as BRD75/DNC32 with a DRK75/BLU37. I have no idea whether subbing it effects the enfeeble yet.

For the first round of Box Steps, I had the DRK wear his normal gear, and used all my DNC gear on BRD. I got the following values:

0 Box Steps: 287
1 Box Step: 273 (~5% down, 14 defense down)
2 Box Steps: 267 (~7% down, 6 more defense down)
3 Box Steps: 261 (~9% down, 6 more defense down)
4 Box Steps: 255 (~11% down, 6 more defense down)
5 Box Steps: 250 (~13% down, 5 more defense down)


For the second round, I swapped in all my CHR gear on BRD, with the suspicion that CHR may affect the steps - it didn't, at all. I got the exact same numbers at all 5 levels.

For the third round, I had the DRK put up Cocoon and swap in a little defense gear, to bring his defense up to 471. This was also done to test whether Box Step dispelled Cocoon like Acid Bolts do.

0 Box Steps: 471
1 Box Step: 456
2 Box Steps: 450
3 Box Steps: 442
4 Box Steps: 436
5 Box Steps: 430

I found these results a little peculiar. Either way, the results of the Cocoon vs Box Step test were that it was a different effect. This means that Box Step's defense down should stack with Acid Bolts and its equivalents. It also means Box Step won't Dispel Cocoon and other defense buffs.


I'm about to use my wife's character to run some more tests on different defense values, to determine if % has anything to do with it, or if perhaps it's base defense only and Cocoon didn't affect it at all (this would be guess, considering the DRK swapped in some defense gear as well as Cocoon; it would explain why the values went down only an extra point or two at a time, instead of several).


Edit: New tests done, and it seems Cocoon was wonking up my numbers, so disregard the 4xx defense value test. It appears only base defense including gear is what affects the defense down gained from Box Step, which makes sense I think. I don't know how Minne or anything else work with this, so I can't really make assumptions, but Cocoon is definitely very separate.

I tested two things:

The first was whether Dancer subbed changes the defense down values compared to Dancer main. I took my wife's character to Brenner as SCH39, and beat on her first with DNC, then with BRD/DNC, and got the same defense values in both tests.

The second test was just against a couple more defense values. The first was 100 Defense, with an even amount of VIT. The results were pretty simple:

100 base defense
95 with 1 Box Step
93 with 2 Box Steps
91 with 3 Box Steps
89 with 4 Box Steps
87 with 5 Box Steps

This seemed simple - 5% for the first one, and 2% afterwards. I then tried calculating it the same as before and it didn't work out to those exact %s, so I changed the way I calculated the first one, and I've changed the values - they line up to this test, 5% -> 2% following. The only problem is I don't know how the game rounds defense. Some of the numbers would easily round to each level of 2%, but were varying both above and below. The numbers are there, if any math people wanna figure it out.

I tested 120 defense next, and got the following:

120 base defense
114 with 1 Box Step
112 with 2 Box Steps
109 with 3 Box Steps
106 with 4 Box Steps
104 with 5 Box Steps

Which also lined up to a 13% total and the same figures as before, give or take a few decimals.

I wish I had some higher defense values to test this on (such as exactly 200, 300, or 400) but I don't at the moment, and I'm about to take a nap so have fun with my results. :D

[liefe]

Hmm..that tells us something about dancer but I bet the steps are nerfed as /DNC. Any chance that you can try in a lower level cap with DNC main?

[Wizerd]

Hmm..that tells us something about dancer but I bet the steps are nerfed as /DNC. Any chance that you can try in a lower level cap with DNC main?

Just tried it, the steps aren't nerfed as /DNC it seems, I got consistent results but I have to edit my post above.

Some changes/additions/confirmations include:

- Defense down values seem to be 5% at first, followed by 2% each, totalling 13%, not 15%.
- Cocoon (and possibly other defense buffs) had no result on the defense down %, just base defense including gear it seems.

[lost071]

The big thing I'm worried about for DNC is HNMs. I honestly cannot see this being a good healer for HNMs. I mean sure its cures are as powerful basically as a WHMs, but they need TP to use their dances. Other melee jobs have a tough time as it is to gain TP. In order to heal consistently we'll need to be constantly gaining TP.

[Wizerd]

The big thing I'm worried about for DNC is HNMs. I honestly cannot see this being a good healer for HNMs. I mean sure its cures are as powerful basically as a WHMs, but they need TP to use their dances. Other melee jobs have a though time as it is to gain TP. In order to heal consistently we'll need to be constantly gaining TP.

You're right. I see Dancer being an enfeebler for HNMs. It requires 40 TP per minute to use Stutter Step every 15 seconds on a mob. If SE is smart, they will put some Subtle Blow on the original AF when they release it. With gear like Rajas Ring and a Subtle Blow trait or two (/NIN) as well, getting 40 TP from an HNM to keep Magic Evasion -13% on it would be greatly worth it in the long run.

But I agree, healing won't be for HNMs. I can see Dancer being an excellent healer in Dynamis though. I can't wait to get lv75 and try it out in the tank party where they get Double March and Haste too. ;) Can easily replace a WHM in that slot I think.

[liefe]

The biggest weakness Dancer has is that, compared to mages who can start a given battle with 100% MP, this job will basically start at 0%. Once you get the momentum of reverse flourishes going you might be ok, but until then you're pretty much behind.

I don't really see how an auto-regain trait would really be that game breaking. 15 minutes to recover TP? That or maybe the ability to recover small amounts of TP per tick while resting.

That being said, I still think the job has enormous potential. Would be nice if they increased the Haste Samba edit: and Daze effect duration though.

[Max™]

I can see it now.

Dancer's Justaucorp's (or whatever the body piece is called) Latent Effect: Auto-Regain.

Latent Trigger: TP below 60%~100% or so.

Problem Solved, HNM functionality ensured, noone bitches that they get Auto-Regain if it only cuts off at a certain amount.

[VZX]

I wish I had some higher defense values to test this on (such as exactly 200, 300, or 400) but I don't at the moment, and I'm about to take a nap so have fun with my results. :D
256! :D

[Vigion]

The biggest weakness Dancer has is that, compared to mages who can start a given battle with 100% MP, this job will basically start at 0%. Once you get the momentum of reverse flourishes going you might be ok, but until then you're pretty much behind.

I don't really see how an auto-regain trait would really be that game breaking. 15 minutes to recover TP? That or maybe the ability to recover small amounts of TP per tick while resting.

That being said, I still think the job has enormous potential. Would be nice if they increased the Haste Samba edit: and Daze effect duration though.

SE's main intentions for Dancer was to be on the frontlines, I don't think resting for TP would ever be added.

[Max™]

Idling to 300% Tp, no, I don't see it honestly.

Having something where you can always get up to say 60% TP (without /Sam being required) would let you start off from scratch, and shouldn't break things.

[Seigfried Of Pandy]

i have feeling dnc roll when it comes out will be regain

[lost071]

Idling to 300% Tp, no, I don't see it honestly.

Having something where you can always get up to say 60% TP (without /Sam being required) would let you start off from scratch, and shouldn't break things.

You know this is actually a really good idea. It wouldn't really break anything since it would cut off at 60% TP. Until AF is added and we see what benefits it brings, one thing you could do is what a lot of melees do which is either to build TP from mobs in the surrounding area or sleep for 300% TP at the beginning of the battle. The only problem with this is how accurate will steps be against higher lvl HNMs? If you miss multiple steps in a row using reverse flourish really isn't going to give you any net TP. I'm gonna assume that one of the AF pieces is going to "enhance flourish effects" and boost reverse flourish to between 80%-100% tp with 5 finishing moves. They really should add a piece of equipment that has a latent effect "Auto-regain" even if its not one of our AF pieces.

[Wizerd]

Actually, addressing the idea of TP gain at HNMs or TP sensitive NMs, it is very possible for the dancer to be meleeing another mob while maintaining normal steps / cures on a mob or party. Anything that requires you to be engaged (various Flourishes, and all the Steps) can be performed while engaged to a different mob, if you choose the JA from menu and select another mob in range, or use an <stnpc> macro.

It won't help in BCNM battles or anything, but it would help on something like Tiamat. It would add another small level of maintenance to the group unfortunately, though, with an extra mob to worry about - even if the Dancer has full control over it.

Totally still fucked for Khim though. ;)

[Delekii]

make a new brygid the stylist item for dancer that is identical to gaudy harness, but for TP instead. Latent Effect: Regain, caps at 49TP. It means they have to give up one of the best item slots accuracy wise, doesn't give enough TP to be worth it in situations where you can melee, but gives some leighway on nms like khimera. They can even use the same model as gaudy harness since the gaudier the better!

[liefe]

Actually an ability that gave regain that cut off at a certain point is a really good idea. 60TP seems about fair too.

[Anakron]

I can see SE giving us a dance that costs 40TP, and regenerates 60TP over 2 minutes or something. :roll:

[lost071]

i have feeling dnc roll when it comes out will be regain

I really doubt it. Unless they give DNC a new native regain JA or JT. COR rolls usually enhance an aspect of a job. SAM roll gives store TP. They also just sometimes enhance things that jobs are known for. For example bard's roll gives -interruption down. While BRDs may not have a trait that does this, one thing about songs that are different then other magics is that you don't get interrupted when you get hit. I guess we'll find out next month.

[Xanthe]

i have feeling dnc roll when it comes out will be regain

I really doubt it. Unless they give DNC a new native regain JA or JT. COR rolls usually enhance an aspect of a job. SAM roll gives store TP. They also just sometimes enhance things that jobs are known for. For example bard's roll gives -interruption down. While BRDs may not have a trait that does this, one thing about songs that are different then other magics is that you don't get interrupted when you get hit. I guess we'll find out next month.
DRGs (and their wyverns) aren't exactly known for their magical accuracy and attack. :roll:

[Lordwafik]

i have feeling dnc roll when it comes out will be regain

I really doubt it. Unless they give DNC a new native regain JA or JT. COR rolls usually enhance an aspect of a job. SAM roll gives store TP. They also just sometimes enhance things that jobs are known for. For example bard's roll gives -interruption down. While BRDs may not have a trait that does this, one thing about songs that are different then other magics is that you don't get interrupted when you get hit. I guess we'll find out next month.
DRGs (and their wyverns) aren't exactly known for their magical accuracy and attack. :roll:

But they are known for being useless, precisely what that roll is!

*chortle*

[Lucavi]

DRGs (and their wyverns) aren't exactly known for their magical accuracy and attack. :roll:



I'll see you Deep breathing and raise you Strafe! Because SE loves drgs so much, they enhanced properties of the job that can only normally be raised AFTER the job is 75! #-o

[Vyvian]

Can anyone close an SC off of Wild Flourish, or do you have to close it yourself?

[Acadi]

Just dinged 45 dancer last night and had time to kill so I went to test Haste Samba. As you know Samba recast is 1min, and the annoying thing about haste samba is its duration is also only 1 minute so you will have to recast it whenever samba is back up.

Using a Flame Degen + 1 (I have sword merits) Delay 218 -- What I did was time how long it took me to do 10 swings of my sword with and without haste. But anyway here is my data:

No Haste
33.01s
33.51s
33.26s
33.58s
33.19s
Average of 33.31s

Haste Samba
31.55s
31.80s
31.29s
31.66s
31.85s
Average of 31.63s

Difference of: 1.68s
Haste Effect = 1.68s / 33.31s = 5.04%

So I really do believe Haste Samba is 5% now. Since it is a daze effect, like drain samba, I think this would stack with rdm/whm haste and march, but I am NOT SURE. Someone else can test that. Oh, and don't sue me if I messed up somehow.

[Max™]

Can anyone close an SC off of Wild Flourish, or do you have to close it yourself?

Anyone can, as Penta and Rampage can't be gotten by Dnc, and /Dnc doesn't have Wild Flourish last I checked.

Also, 5% ain't bad, 10% would be a lot nicer though.

[Anakron]

What do you guys think of Federation Kukri vs. Corrosive Kukri? Basically 3 acc, 12 less delay, 7 attack outside nation vs. the Add. Effect: Weaken's Defense...which I recall doesn't proc very often. I'm leaning towards the Federation Kukri myself, but anybody disagree?

[Eaglestrike]

DNC roll is going to be Haste.

[Vyvian]

Can anyone close an SC off of Wild Flourish, or do you have to close it yourself?

Anyone can, as Penta and Rampage can't be gotten by Dnc, and /Dnc doesn't have Wild Flourish last I checked.

Also, 5% ain't bad, 10% would be a lot nicer though.

Good point, lol.

[Lebzile]

Has anyone (37+ preferably) tried tanking as DNC? I mean, /war, tacos, an actual tank setup? I'm just wondering how well a DNC can hold hate. I've tanked a few pts 15-18 spamming Curing Waltz, but mobs hit like pussies at those levels.

Just wondering about the potency of the Voke Flourish honestly, like if it's as good as regular voke or what. e_e

[Wizerd]

Has anyone (37+ preferably) tried tanking as DNC? I mean, /war, tacos, an actual tank setup? I'm just wondering how well a DNC can hold hate. I've tanked a few pts 15-18 spamming Curing Waltz, but mobs hit like pussies at those levels.

Just wondering about the potency of the Voke Flourish honestly, like if it's as good as regular voke or what. e_e

I'm pretty sure it's the exact same as Provoke, but of course Kaeko's testing could probably figure it out. :o Would be best to go /NIN for tanking over /WAR, I think.

[Lebzile]

Has anyone (37+ preferably) tried tanking as DNC? I mean, /war, tacos, an actual tank setup? I'm just wondering how well a DNC can hold hate. I've tanked a few pts 15-18 spamming Curing Waltz, but mobs hit like pussies at those levels.

Just wondering about the potency of the Voke Flourish honestly, like if it's as good as regular voke or what. e_e

I'm pretty sure it's the exact same as Provoke, but of course Kaeko's testing could probably figure it out. :o Would be best to go /NIN for tanking over /WAR, I think.

I was thinking of maybe a DEF/EVA setup at 50+, which could theoretically work.Defender gives a pretty nice bonus to defense and with tacos I think it's possible to get def of a 50dnc to get in the lower-mid 400s(maybe 500s?). Then start stacking some +VIT gear to help close the gap, seems plausible in my opinion.

Can't log in at the moment, but does DNC have any shield skill at all? Haven't really checked or thought about it till now. I'm really only trying to explore all aspects of DNC, I don't see why DNC would be given a voke without being able to do some type of tanking. Unless SE siriusly intended the job as "sub job onry" like they said for SCH.

Need Ruke to get 75dnc so he can throw some Dring on that bitch and tank some HNMs. 8)

[Tomiko]

I've been curious as to the tanking potential as well. The main limiting factor will obviously be the neccessity of TP, if that's not an issue, then I can see it as doing rather well since it would have a Provoke ability as well as a Stun Ability in addition to the cures. I could easily see 2 Dancers co-tanking without the neccessity of a healing job.

No shield skill though.

[Lebzile]

Same, I mean I can pretty much lock hate on myself at 18 by spamming curing waltz, 20tp is a joke to get and it has the potential to have hate gaining as a PLD almost, no sentinel kind of hate, but I do forsee it as being a possible meripo tank.

Although I do not seeing it as a tank for HNM like Wyrms or Khimaera where gaining TP would be hard without 2 or 3 SAMs in your pt feeding you a shikokyo every 10minutes.

[Xanthe]

What do you guys think of Federation Kukri vs. Corrosive Kukri? Basically 3 acc, 12 less delay, 7 attack outside nation vs. the Add. Effect: Weaken's Defense...which I recall doesn't proc very often. I'm leaning towards the Federation Kukri myself, but anybody disagree?
Definitely the Federation Kukri. You're going to want all the accuracy you can get.

[Rellikard]

Just wondering about the potency of the Voke Flourish honestly, like if it's as good as regular voke or what. e_e

Animated Flourish seems like it's Provoke Lite. Using it I can get hate off of anyone, but if someone else provokes they'll take hate off of me. Also, someone who has a lot of built up hate seem to pull hate within about 5-10 seconds after the AF though the initial AF rips it off of them. So it seems like enough to assist in grabbing hate long enough for someone to cast shadows, but that's about it.

[Xanthe]

Just wondering about the potency of the Voke Flourish honestly, like if it's as good as regular voke or what. e_e

Animated Flourish seems like it's Provoke Lite. Using it I can get hate off of anyone, but if someone else provokes they'll take hate off of me. Also, someone who has a lot of built up hate seem to pull hate within about 5-10 seconds after the AF though the initial AF rips it off of them. So it seems like enough to assist in grabbing hate long enough for someone to cast shadows, but that's about it.
That's how Provoke works as well though. Provoke (and Animated Flourish) both add VE (Volatile Enmity) which decays at a set rate of -60/sec. Provoke adds 1800 VE (varies with +/- enmity gear), though Animated Flourish has not been quantified on Kanican's LJ tests as of yet. Assuming they are equal, it's only natural that someone can pull hate 5-10 seconds after an Animated Flourish as your VE has decayed by 300-600 in that time. It's also natural that if someone Provokes even 1 second after you they will get hate, assuming CE (Cumulative Enmity) is equal between the two of you. See the Enmity Testing entries on http://kanican.livejournal.com for more information on how enmity works and a very interesting read.

[chichicha]

Just wondering about the potency of the Voke Flourish honestly, like if it's as good as regular voke or what. e_e

Animated Flourish seems like it's Provoke Lite. Using it I can get hate off of anyone, but if someone else provokes they'll take hate off of me. Also, someone who has a lot of built up hate seem to pull hate within about 5-10 seconds after the AF though the initial AF rips it off of them. So it seems like enough to assist in grabbing hate long enough for someone to cast shadows, but that's about it.
That's how Provoke works as well though. Provoke (and Animated Flourish) both add VE (Volatile Enmity) which decays at a set rate of -60/sec. Provoke adds 1800 VE (varies with +/- enmity gear), though Animated Flourish has not been quantified on Kanican's LJ tests as of yet. Assuming they are equal, it's only natural that someone can pull hate 5-10 seconds after an Animated Flourish as your VE has decayed by 300-600 in that time. It's also natural that if someone Provokes even 1 second after you they will get hate, assuming CE (Cumulative Enmity) is equal between the two of you. See the Enmity Testing entries on http://kanican.livejournal.com for more information on how enmity works and a very interesting read.

I don't think they are equal.

Did a test - Both naked, both taru, both not merit on Enmity at all. Both not engage (i.e. not hitting mobs at all)
I am DNC/NIN, He is WAR/NIN

First Mob -
I used Animated Flourish. Then, My friend provoked. He win. He has hate.
I used Animated Flourish again, I can't get hate back.

Second Mob -
My friend Provoked. I used Animated Flourish, I couldn't win hate.

Just a small test, someone might want to test more.

However, whenever I used Cure/ Curaga, Mobs turned to me like immediately.

Besides, I wondered.... whether Building Flourish is working like Sneak Attack....
i.e. only works on non-elements WS.

I ding'd 50, happy to have it. Used "Building Flourish" then "Cyclone" ... I don't see any enhancement on dmg. Did a few test ... still doesn't see any good +dmg on my WS. I haven't tried on WS without Elements though.

[Wizerd]

Has anyone come across anything that Healing Waltz won't get rid of? I tried on Blind and Poison and they work fine, as well as anything normal Erase erases. I want to know about Petrify - I don't think I missed anything in this thread.

[ruf]

I've noticed Animated Flourish to be a good deal weaker than provoke, too. No specific testing, but I've pulled with animated and it's gone after the someone who casted blind on the mob before it even got to camp. Not sure if this means the hate decays much faster than voke or if it's just a lower VE overall, but yeah. Provoke > AF alone for getting and holding hate.

[Xanthe]

I've noticed Animated Flourish to be a good deal weaker than provoke, too. No specific testing, but I've pulled with animated and it's gone after the someone who casted blind on the mob before it even got to camp. Not sure if this means the hate decays much faster than voke or if it's just a lower VE overall, but yeah. Provoke > AF alone for getting and holding hate.
VE decays at a constant -60/sec no matter what. It might actually be the case that Animated Flourish gives less VE than Provoke, but yeah, needs testing. For reference, Blind gives 640 VE and Provoke gives 1800 VE. Given the VE decay rate Blind would have to be cast after the 20-second mark from Provoke usage in order to pull hate. Assuming Animated Flourish and Blind were the only actions used on the mob, we can similarly find the threshold for Animated Flourish's VE.

pVE - Provoke's VE over time
blindVE - Blind's VE at cast time
tfu - the time from Provoke usage in seconds


pVE blindVE tfu
1800 640 0
1740 640 1
1680 640 2
1620 640 3
1560 640 4
1500 640 5
1440 640 6
1380 640 7
1320 640 8
1260 640 9
1200 640 10
1140 640 11
1080 640 12
1020 640 13
960 640 14
900 640 15
840 640 16
780 640 17
720 640 18
660 640 19
600 640 20
540 640 21
480 640 22
420 640 23
360 640 24
300 640 25
240 640 26
180 640 27
120 640 28
60 640 29
0 640 30

As you can see, Blind will have more VE than Provoke after the 20-second mark.

It was claimed that Blind pulled hate off of Animated Flourish, so we can approximate it's maximum VE based on time from use given the formula afVE_MAX = blindVE + (tfu+60) - 1.

afVE_MAX - the maximum possible VE of Animated Flourish
blindVE - Blind's VE at cast time
tfu - the time from Animated Flourish usage in seconds

afVE_MAX = blindVE + (tfu*60) - 1

afVE_MAX blindVE tfu
639 640 0
699 640 1
759 640 2
819 640 3
879 640 4
939 640 5
999 640 6
1059 640 7
1119 640 8
1179 640 9
1239 640 10
1299 640 11
1359 640 12
1419 640 13
1479 640 14
1539 640 15
1599 640 16
1659 640 17
1719 640 18
1779 640 19
1839 640 20
1899 640 21
1959 640 22
2019 640 23
2079 640 24
2139 640 25
2199 640 26
2259 640 27
2319 640 28
2379 640 29
2439 640 30
If you can provide the exact time from Animated Flourish usage that Blind was cast you can pick the maximum possible (not actual) VE of Animated Flourish e.g. if Blind was cast 10 seconds after Animated Flourish was used and immediately pulled hate then Animated Flourish's VE could be no more than 1239. You can then close the lower bound by finding the max tfu at which Blind does not yet pull hate, giving a good approximation of afVE. Forgive me if any of my math is off, I'll admit I haven't done a whole lot with enmity calculations.

[ruf]

I'll test it with some friends. While not noting it down or being specific at all, it was about 2/3 of the time after a pull, I did lose shadows to attacks or took damage on the pulls, and it was usually on longer pulls (though never close to 20 seconds from the time of flourish to the cast of blind), so my results are all kinds of off and imprecise.

[Xanthe]

I'll test it with some friends. While not noting it down or being specific at all, it was about 2/3 of the time after a pull, I did lose shadows to attacks or took damage on the pulls, and it was usually on longer pulls (though never close to 20 seconds from the time of flourish to the cast of blind), so my results are all kinds of off and imprecise.
Damage/shadows taken wouldn't matter for VE. Looking forward to seeing more on this.

[Nyiri]

Has anyone come across anything that Healing Waltz won't get rid of? I tried on Blind and Poison and they work fine, as well as anything normal Erase erases. I want to know about Petrify - I don't think I missed anything in this thread.

I tried it on Petrify while XPing on lizards in the Crawler's Nest: no go. A pity, I was excited to have levelled the first subjob that could remove Petrify.

It's worked on Poison, Paralysis, Evasion Down, Strength Down, and Slow for me so far, though, so I can't really complain.

[Hige]

Has anyone come across anything that Healing Waltz won't get rid of? I tried on Blind and Poison and they work fine, as well as anything normal Erase erases. I want to know about Petrify - I don't think I missed anything in this thread.

I tried it on Petrify while XPing on lizards in the Crawler's Nest: no go. A pity, I was excited to have levelled the first subjob that could remove Petrify.

It's worked on Poison, Paralysis, Evasion Down, Strength Down, and Slow for me so far, though, so I can't really complain.

From FF11wiki (http://ff11wiki.rdy.jp/703794578.html#e49e07d0):

"??????????????????????
????????????????"

"Except for Petrify, Disease, Amnesia, Terror, erases 1 (negative) effect. (This includes every "down" status effect.)"

My Japanese is a little rusty, one point of interest is that it doesn't specify plague (like from Tiamat), only disease (undead hound). So either it hasn't been tested yet or it may work on plague.

[kuronosan]

For self-targeting, I could see it not removing Petrify, Terror, or Amnesia... as all of those status effects would prevent you from using the dance in the first place.

[ruf]

orz, it may be a little bit before *I* do the testing, only other account I have access to has +enmity merits.

[Nyiri]

For self-targeting, I could see it not removing Petrify, Terror, or Amnesia... as all of those status effects would prevent you from using the dance in the first place.

Healing Waltz can target any party member.

[kuronosan]

I know that. I'm referring to the post which says that the JP otherwiki says that it doesn't remove those status effects... other than Disease, all of the status effects listed are effects that prevent abilities from being used.

[Nyiri]

I know that. I'm referring to the post which says that the JP otherwiki says that it doesn't remove those status effects... other than Disease, all of the status effects listed are effects that prevent abilities from being used.

Why should that prevent a person who does not have that effect from removing the effect from another person?

A moot point, given that Healing Waltz, like Erase, won't fix those effects, but it seems a nonsensical approach to the question, given that the dancer herself needn't be the one afflicted with the ability-use-preventing effect.

[Toth]

given that the dancer herself

Uh oh lol

[Nyiri]

Just finished my first "dancer-burn" party. No kidding. Party setup: dnc dnc dnc dnc dnc. We had a scholar in the sixth position for about an hour, too. XP was fast, easy, and safe, on the various goblins at the E Altepa outpost. Went from level 41 to level 43 in about two hours. Very delicious.

And here I was worried that there being several other dancers in my level range all seeking at the same time might be a *bad* thing!

[Yoshimiko]

Still no word on whether or not haste samba is uncapped?

[Tulun]

Still no word on whether or not haste samba is uncapped?

I would be very curious to hear the answer to this......

If Haste Samba especially stacks with Haste + March, even at 5%, it would give drks a theoretical 98.3% reduction.

That would be so batshit crazy...

[Yoshimiko]

Still no word on whether or not haste samba is uncapped?

I would be very curious to hear the answer to this......

If Haste Samba especially stacks with Haste + March, even at 5%, it would give drks a theoretical 98.3% reduction.

That would be so batshit crazy...

About a 4x increase in damage. (Delays with B.Z. & the -2% offhand: 470 normal, 31.51 with 93.3%, 7.9968 with 98.8%)

[kuronosan]

I know that. I'm referring to the post which says that the JP otherwiki says that it doesn't remove those status effects... other than Disease, all of the status effects listed are effects that prevent abilities from being used.

Why should that prevent a person who does not have that effect from removing the effect from another person?

A moot point, given that Healing Waltz, like Erase, won't fix those effects, but it seems a nonsensical approach to the question, given that the dancer herself needn't be the one afflicted with the ability-use-preventing effect.

Jesus christ dude... learn how to read. In the JP wiki it says those status efffects aren't removed. The only instance that they wouldn't be removed is if the dancer itself was inflicted with them. Nowhere did I say that the dancer couldn't use it on other people.

[tufrabza]

just a bit of info, but with 4 h2h merits, and a cestus belt (/mnk), dnc does get raging fists at 41

[Koeta]

just a bit of info, but with 4 h2h merits, and a cestus belt (/mnk), dnc does get raging fists at 41

yes, yes it does 8)
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/4313/ffxiwotg007pl8.jpg

[Toth]

I'd like to mention that a duo or even trio of DNCs/NIN make fantastic tanks for any party setup (up to 41 so far anyway). Animated Flourish and their dances generate quite a fair amount of enmity and I have been able to nuke comfortably as SCH when they are the main tanks. There is also no downtime :D

[Koeta]

Anyone else 40+ feel like they evade a bit more ?
i swear im starting to think DNC gets Evasion Bonus II, i was evading IT Hell bats and Goblins pretty good with like +2 evasion in gear on (+3 mantle +3 gloves -4 earrings) just had to keep the evasion down move off.

[Koyangi]

When pulling some Puk's as 60dnc/nin (puller dc'd) I evaded on avg 50% as it was brought to camp, usually still had 1-2 shadows up, a few pulls it would miss 4 in a row. SH+1, nomads, battle gloves, and emp pin for evasion, squid+1 for food.

[Max™]

Just to add, if noone else has noticed, this makes an awesome low man melee sub.

As an example, I give you, WARDANCER

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/3051/max071202074150aed4.jpg

Using this for sky farming/sea farming/assaults/campaign, etc once I get it to 37 til I can get it leveled up the rest of the way.

[Seigfried Of Pandy]

you look like elton john

[Max™]

you look like elton john

I noticed the hilarious similarity too, and it makes me laugh like a dolt.

[Lilswitche]

I'm not even leveling Dancer, but I thought I would post this up to tingle some people's curiosity. Wild Flourish can make 2nd lvl Skillchains.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i305/Switche1/img_20071202_192601.png

I'm also being told from another party that Wild Flourish -> Sturmwind = Fragmentation.

[Beckwin]

whoa that's pretty kewl. I may have not been following the thread close, but I didn't know other party members could "close" off of wild flourish.

[Lordwafik]

Any dancer on asura wanna test with mercy stroke when I get home from work? (approx 6h from now). Haven't seen anyone test with a relic, wondering if it'll make darkness.

[Zilong]

Sorry if this has already been answered, but do healing waltz clears multiple status one by one like erase, or do they clear them all at once like vicar drinks/remedy?

[Lilswitche]

Sorry if this has already been answered, but do healing waltz clears multiple status one by one like erase, or do they clear them all at once like vicar drinks/remedy?

One by one.

[Tulun]

Still no word on whether or not haste samba is uncapped?

I would be very curious to hear the answer to this......

If Haste Samba especially stacks with Haste + March, even at 5%, it would give drks a theoretical 98.3% reduction.

That would be so batshit crazy...

About a 4x increase in damage. (Delays with B.Z. & the -2% offhand: 470 normal, 31.51 with 93.3%, 7.9968 with 98.8%)

Double attack off grip would be better, no? Rune Chopper has no natural proc.

What's the delay difference in the end?

Either way.. jesus tap dancing christ :) 4x better???

[Max™]

Wild Flourish > Fusion Priority WS > Fusion Light Closer=mirrored 3 Man light?

I'm still dying to see if this works out.

[Lordwafik]

Wild Flourish > Mercy Stroke = nothing .

Thanks for helping test it Chichicha :)

[Max™]

Wild Flourish > Mercy Stroke = nothing .

Thanks for helping test it Chichicha :)

That is REALLY odd, but kind of makes sense given the weird SC properties of relic WSes.

Since you're trying to close half of Darkness+Double Darkness (right?), maybe the game doesn't know what effect to give without an opener.

Hmmm...doesn't WF > EV do Compression? (gotta check, don't see the post yet) maybe have them do a WV > EV or SB to Mercy?

[Lordwafik]

I could only test it quick as I'm about to do something else, but if I'm done and they're online / not in party i'll go back and test a bit with them.

Mercy stroke doesn't carry any level 1 properties, it can do gravitation and darkness only.

[Max™]

lol, I did a ninjafied edit in there, and yeah that confirms what I was thinking.

I'll do a lot of testing on it whenever I get Dnc up, as I still dig making SC's after all this time, but surely it will have been worked out before then. Only 16 Dnc atm.

[chichicha]

Lordwafik, Thanks for testing :)
I didn't read my text, I am not sure if I missed my Flourish ^.^
If w/e I am not in party or any lolevents I am taking part, you can always look me up for any test you can think off :)
More than happy to discover the potential of DNC with people. :)

Demostrate one solo method on dmg (which I am pretty happy with - taru is always happy with tiny dmg they have done ^.^)
At DNC60/NIN30

Picture attached, hope it tells - Time stamp included. :)
Have fun, all DNC :)

p.s.
Test WS - SC
WF -> Evisceration -> Transfixion
WF -> Dancing Edge -> Scission
WF -> Shark Bite -> Dum dum dum ! Nothing (Tried twice)
WF -> Savage Blade -> Scission
WF -> Gust Slash -> Detonation
WF -> Rampage -> Scission

[Max™]

That is pretty sweet, but whats this about tarus doing tiny damage? >.>

:p

<Wardancer>

So I've been thinking about subs, Dnc/Drg was interesting since it gives the 5%/6% Haste at 30, 10% with Swift Belt, 15% with Haste Samba (effectively) which doesn't sound like anything to scoff at, and hey free attacks to get a bit more TP. Dnc/War gives a nice balance of Chr/Vit for self curing at early solo, Dnc/Nin is good for being cured by it's Chr is kind of low.

Dnc/Thf gives +5 Dagger skill at 30 from the belt, and +2 loldex on ear, and SA for landing Steps/etc.

Dnc/Sam has the obvious store tp/meditate, but not sure how much store TP it takes for dagger hits to lose a round to 100, and even more interestingly, since you only need 10-30% for most dances, how much it can reduce the time needed for those.

[Xanthe]

That is pretty sweet, but whats this about tarus doing tiny damage? >.>

:p

<Wardancer>

So I've been thinking about subs, Dnc/Drg was interesting since it gives the 5%/6% Haste at 30, 10% with Swift Belt, 15% with Haste Samba (effectively) which doesn't sound like anything to scoff at, and hey free attacks to get a bit more TP. Dnc/War gives a nice balance of Chr/Vit for self curing at early solo, Dnc/Nin is good for being cured by it's Chr is kind of low.

Dnc/Thf gives +5 Dagger skill at 30 from the belt, and +2 loldex on ear, and SA for landing Steps/etc.

Dnc/Sam has the obvious store tp/meditate, but not sure how much store TP it takes for dagger hits to lose a round to 100, and even more interestingly, since you only need 10-30% for most dances, how much it can reduce the time needed for those.
I wouldn't go DNC/DRG. DNC/NIN will have a 10% delay reduction at 20 and you also get the added benefit from the offhand weapon stats. Wouldn't even consider /SAM until 60+, but I doubt I'd use it even then except situationally. DNC/THF *maybe* from 30-40, but DNC/NIN with Tilt belt at 40 would be better and I still would be hard-pressed to give up those offhand stats.

[chichicha]

honestly, I haven't been thinking much about endgame/ merit party yet.

But, so far, from DNC21 till DNC60, I didn't suffer with not getting enough TP.
Especially, after DNC40, I got TP fairly quick. You will love Reverse Flourish (RF) so much. (i.e. Invest 20 TP on 2 Steps, RF and you get back 46TP)
And bare in mind, while you are doing all these, both of your hands are still swing your daggers still.



Just in my opinion, after I see that how WF is working. (Just duo'd with my BST on a bit of his empress band.)
DNC can do good for party to kill quick, imo. :)
Two Steps -> you can open 2 x SC for ppl in 30 sec.

We killed birds, I first do my self-sc (like I posted before), then WF again for BST to Rampage. Bird's HP dropped significantly quick to less than 5% ^.^

p.s. Confirmed - Violent Flourish (Stun), as long as you don't miss, you get TP. I got 5 TP from my dagger Flourish. Not sure about other weapons.

[Max™]

Well, I'll screw around with /Drg just cause I have it leveled and the earring from War/Drg, /Thf for the Dagger belt is interesting...if you can find one. At least Dnc/Nin I can have something offhand.

Using just Dagger/Nothing feels weird, but HTH is lagging behind alot even with 1 active HTH merit from Monk, between the slowness of the delay, and the crap accuracy, I've just swapped over to daggers already at 15.

[Wizerd]

Well, I'll screw around with /Drg just cause I have it leveled and the earring from War/Drg, /Thf for the Dagger belt is interesting...if you can find one. At least Dnc/Nin I can have something offhand.

Using just Dagger/Nothing feels weird, but HTH is lagging behind alot even with 1 active HTH merit from Monk, between the slowness of the delay, and the crap accuracy, I've just swapped over to daggers already at 15.

Around that level it does tend to suck. I'm lv40 now, almost 41, and I think I'm about to switch back to HTH just for Raging Fists. I was main healing a party today and still WSing every couple battles with crappy Gust Slash, I love Reverse Flourish~.

[Max™]

Gust Slash sucks until you use it to pull, then it's fun.

Ranged dagger WSes ftmfw.

[liefe]

Anyone see if skillchain results from other's weaponskills change depending on what weapon you use wild flourish with?

edit: Sorry for this but for Dancing Edge for DNC without the stacking of THF abilities and so on, would STR be the best stat to macro in for WS?

[Cylo]

Anyone see if skillchain results from other's weaponskills change depending on what weapon you use wild flourish with?

edit: Sorry for this but for Dancing Edge for DNC without the stacking of THF abilities and so on, would STR be the best stat to macro in for WS?

Yeah, Accuracy til you have all hits landing, then STR... unless you are trying to improve crits (see Rampage discussions)

[Max™]

DE doesn't crit naturally, unless they REALLY changed something in a patch I didn't see.

Str mostly, Dex incidentally, lolChrMod~(base will cover all you need of this, your highest stat, and it doesn't affect actual accuracy or attack/wdmg/etc) but mainly just try to get all hits stuck.

[archibaldcrane]

DE doesn't crit naturally, unless they REALLY changed something in a patch I didn't see.

Str mostly, Dex incidentally, lolChrMod~(base will cover all you need of this, your highest stat, and it doesn't affect actual accuracy or attack/wdmg/etc) but mainly just try to get all hits stuck.CHR will help your WDMG rating for Dancing Edge the most, then DEX, then STR, but they are all very close to each other. Of course, DEX gives acc and STR gives atk. STR can cap, but not on XP mobs or higher given the lack of STR+ gear for DNC.

[Delekii]

DE doesn't crit naturally, unless they REALLY changed something in a patch I didn't see.

Str mostly, Dex incidentally, lolChrMod~(base will cover all you need of this, your highest stat, and it doesn't affect actual accuracy or attack/wdmg/etc) but mainly just try to get all hits stuck.CHR will help your WDMG rating for Dancing Edge the most, then DEX, then STR, but they are all very close to each other. Of course, DEX gives acc and STR gives atk. STR can cap, but not on XP mobs or higher given the lack of STR+ gear for DNC.
Work out your wsc, with some of the high chr gear available (dunno if it is available for dnc though..), it should be better a lot of the time..

if we look comparatively the numbers are
0.249dex:0.25str:0.332chr

of course, in both the case of str, and dex/chr, it only counts in whole numbers..

work out (dex*.3+chr*.4)*.83, and if adding a piece of gear pushes you to the next whole number it's probably worth wearing, chr or not..

[Max™]

Str counts when you hit the mob by essentially raising your pre WS mod weapon damage, it raises your attack, improving your pDif rolls, dex helps you land hits and improves your WS mod weapon damage, chr improves your WS mod weapon damage.

[Yutuyu]

STR & DEX will end up better than CHR like Max said because they also give attack and accuracy bonuses. But that doesn't necessarily mean you shouldn't use any CHR. Keep in mind that the best setup for anything that varies heavily on multiple factors is a nice balance. Don't just go for STR or DEX, go for ACC, ATK, and CHR. Just get it all. 5 STR and 5 DEX is gonna be more useful than 10 STR or 10 DEX.

But 1 CHR will only outclass STR and DEX if any attack or accuracy gains you'd make would be negligable. But obviously if you can get CHR in large quantities on a piece and STR/DEX in small amounts, go for the CHR.

[Delekii]

Str counts when you hit the mob by essentially raising your pre WS mod weapon damage, it raises your attack, improving your pDif rolls, dex helps you land hits and improves your WS mod weapon damage, chr improves your WS mod weapon damage.
STR is essentially the same as a 30% WSC mod, with the added benefit of 1attack per 2 str, but the deficit of having to know your opponent's vitality to accurately gauge the actual amount needed to raise base damage. There is never a situation where 1 or 2 attack will be more effective than 1 base damage, so if you are comparing two pieces of gear, where one is chr and garunteed to raise your wsc, and the other is str and isn't garunteed to raise your fstr, you are probably better off using the chr. This is especially the case with DNC, since they don't have access to a lot of high str gear like neptunal.

[Max™]

Yeah, but they do get the Gigas bracelet line, str rings as we all do, various back pieces, rse, didn't see if they are on Warwolf, but yeah I get what you're saying.

On a different note, got Dnc to 18 earlier, was out in Tahrongi getting trains of 4, 5, or 6 EP-DC mobs and then killing them all, good deal faster than hacking up EM's, considering the crappy acc/att we get.

Funny as hell when people walk up to see a taru dancing in front of three dhalmels, two yags, and a bird.

[archibaldcrane]

Yeah, but they do get the Gigas bracelet lineGigas bracelet line is basically worthless for Dancing edge due to the -DEX on it.

[Delekii]

Yeah, but they do get the Gigas bracelet lineGigas bracelet line is basically worthless for Dancing edge due to the -DEX on it.
no it isnt.

alky bracelets offer 2.75fstr and ~5.5attack, at the cost of -1.5wsc and ~3%accuracy. There aren't too many better options.

[Max™]

Yeah, but they do get the Gigas bracelet lineGigas bracelet line is basically worthless for Dancing edge due to the -DEX on it.
no it isnt.

alky bracelets offer 2.75fstr and ~5.5attack, at the cost of -1.5wsc and ~3%accuracy. There aren't too many better options.

Thank ya, was about to "go there" but you beat me too it.

[Ironhide]

I just dinged to 35 the other night and was wondering if anyone has any sense of how much an improvement Drain Samba II is over Drain Samba. I only did about 2K more XP after I levelled and I didn't really get a feel for the difference. I'm mainly just wondering if it's worth blowing the extra 15 TP over DS I, since we can always use moar TP. I guess once I get Reverse Flourish it'll be less of an issue, but I am interested in knowing if there's a significant difference. All the info I could dig up simply says it's more potent.

[Razzley]

I'm sure this is answered somewhere in this huge thread but I'de like clarification if anyone could help.
In a Party from levels 20 - 75, what job does Dancer usually replace?
I've heard they can tank, but does this mean I should form a party with a DNC/NIN and a WAR/NIN, in the hopes that the DNC will take the place of a NIN?
Or would a Dancer but the opposite of this? Where I would form a party with a NIN/WAR and a DNC/NIN to replace the would-be WAR/NIN?
And furthermore on these questions, how "healer" intensive is a Dancer? Do they require a WHM? Or would a RDM/WHM suffice?

[Max™]

From leveling so far, Dancer is a healer that uses Sushi instead of Refresh.

No refresh? Find a Dancer.

Mind, I'm just lvl 18, but being able to beat down hordes of EP-DC mobs at once, from the uninterruptible Cure II spam I can toss out, yeah, I'd say I'm a healing job.

Melees hit the mob with Samba on it, effectively getting Regen.
Smack someone with a Curing Waltz II, they get back 150-nearly 200 Hp.
Divine Waltz away those blues, as long as it can be erased, that is.

Yeah, healer with flair.

Can they tank? Yeah, but the voke flourish is like 0.75 Provoke, and there are better things to do with that flourish, like refilling your own TP (basically refreshing yourself) so you can keep your party going.

I will try tanking as War/Dnc when I get to 37 though.

[Cylo]

In my mind... I would say that the role of a Dancer is "Support". They aren't quite capable of being a Main Healer except in some circumstances.

They also can fill the following additional roles:
Puller
Backup Healer
Hate Control / Hate Assist


From http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Party#Basic_Strategy
Support: "Member of the party that facilitates the functions of a party. Able to increase the effectiveness of all other members of the party by enhancing the ability to deal damage, tank, and/or directly reduce downtime through usage of abilities that restore MP. The role of a support character is quite simply to support the other members of the party. While not having a direct impact on the goals of the party, a support character is just as important as the rest of the party. Having a support character around makes everybody's job easier - as one can easily enfeeble an enemy to deal less or take more damage, directly enhance a damage dealer's damage potential, or provide a safety cushion for healing when the healer has exhausted his/her resources."


So to answer your question... DNC can replace the following jobs: RDM, BRD, SMN, COR