London Transportation (To the Brits among you!)

[Byrthnoth]

HAI GUIZ WATS GOIN ON LOL?

So, my girlfriend and I are going on a trip to Europe (Start: Madrid, End: Crete) and two weeks ago we noticed that our tickets involved an airport change in London. Oops! Fortunately, my girlfriend's aunt's friend's sister runs a travel company in London, so we e-mailed her about whether our connection (3.5 hours) was feasible. She replied pretty decisively that it was not, and advised we start panicking and try to change our tickets.

We called British Airways, who told us they couldn't do anything because we booked through Travelocity. So we called Travelocity, who told us that to do anything they'd have to revalue our entire trip at current market prices and charge us another $280 for switching the tickets. Of course, they also said it was possible to make the connection. Revaluing came out over $800 per round-trip ticket, which we'd originally paid about $1000 for including all the extra charges they tack on and the seemingly worthless Traveller Insurance that doesn't seem to apply unless you die.

It seems every airline rep insists that the journey is possible, but this distant connection of ours who lives and travels in London pretty vehemently insists it isn't. So, here is my question:

Can someone on a flight that lands in Heathrow Terminal 5 at 6:20AM Thursday get through customs, pick up a potential checked bag, and make it to London City Airport in time to check in for a 9:50AM flight?

LHR to LCY - Google Maps

As you can see, it's dead across London at the peak of morning rush hour on a Thursday. I've had estimations of leaving customs at Heathrow by 7:20-7:30AM, and London City Airport requests you check in 30 minutes before the flight leaves so I'd have until 9:20AM. A little under 2 hours to get across the heart of London at rush hour. Can it be done, and if so, which way is best?

We've been recommended to:
1) Charter a Taxi (47 pounds) - Two votes for, one against
2) Take trains (~40 pounds, and our first time using the tubes) - One vote for, two against.

If you recommend the trains, how exactly should we go?

[Edimir]

Not a Londoner myself, but I suggest the train + tube option. By road your essentially trying to go across 75% of the width of London (Something like 25-35 miles) in rush hour traffic, I consider that a risky option myself.

I recommend getting either the Heathrow Express (15 mins journey) or Heathrow Connect (25 mins journey) trains that'll take you to Paddington. As from Paddington to London City Airport, Transport for London (tfl.gov.uk) suggest the route of:-

Paddington Underground Station
Take the Bakerloo Line towards Elephant & Castle

Change at Baker Street Underground Station
Take the Jubilee Line towards Stratford
or Jubilee Line towards West Ham

Change at Canning Town DLR Station
Take the Docklands Light Railway towards Woolwich Arsenal DLR

Estimated travel time from Paddington to London City Airport is approx 40 mins. If you've ever used a subway system in any of the major cities (New York, Paris) then you should have no problems getting around, plus I think all you may need is a Zone 1-3 ticket for the entire journey each.

Just my 2 cents from someone who occasionally visits London, but not exactly an expert on getting around it.

[SephYuyX]

Cant exactly recommend you a route, but yeah, youll be kind of sol with a taxi. I only took a taxi too and from Heathrow on off times, and the streets were well crowded. If you get a good taxi driver he'll be agressive, but still cant control traffic.

Tube/Train will be your best bet.

Im sure someone from london will respond shortly, probably Stig, but Maps | Transport for London for fun.

[Avinor]

Stig will tell you, from personal experience, that transport through London ranks as:
1) Bicycle
2) Power Boat
3) Public Transport
4) Car

YouTube - Highlights - The Stig, Hammond,May and Clarkson Cross-London Race - Top Gear

[Cesaria]

Nothing to add (I avoid London like the plague but it sounds a rough journey to pull off to be honest) - just giggling at the memory of that Top Gear to be honest.

[The Stig]

Haha @ the Top Gear race/reference.

I think it's pretty impossible too, according to Edimir's suggested route (which is the best route), although I do wonder about the 40min estimated time. It takes me a good 30 min (least) to get to North Greenwich (where the Millenium Dome (O2) is) from Paddington which is one stop from Canning Town (the stop you want to get off at to change to the Docklands Light Railway to London City Airport). However, the site says it's a 7min journey from Canning Town to the Airport. So while 40min does seem "correct" I'd allow 1 hour.

Then there's also the concern of knowing what to do once you're at the Airport station in London, another place which I haven't been to. But I think it shouldn't be too bad, but when you're racing against time simple things can be overlooked. Looking at the satellite maps on Google the airport is TINY so my guess is that it definately should be easy, plus the station is literally outside/next to the runway.

As I probably stated on other threads, I hate travelling on airplanes, so I have no idea of the time it takes from customs. I also have not personally travelled between Heathrow to Paddington.

However, I do use Paddington each and everyday, as well as the Bakerloo Line.

My only concerns now is your amount of luggage, and also am surprised at how inconsiderate the booking company is at this "change".

I can only help you save time so you don't waste time looking for routes and such.

I can do something silly (to some it seems silly) and film/take pics of myself leaving the platform which the Heathrow (fast and/or slow) trains arrive at Paddington and into the Tube to the Bakerloo Line (otherwise for a first timer finding the tube, despite the signs, is the biggest cock block, as Paddington is a big station with 4 tube lines going through it)

If you got a phone/PDA I can take some pics which you can shove onto your device as a reference (i'll draw arrows and stuff).

When is this trip?



The only "good" thing about this trip is that once you're into the Tube, the change at Baker Street is extremely easy. Simply get off, no matter where on the platform, head towards an "exit" onto the wall, the Jubilee Line that goes to Westham/Stratford is there. Unless something is seriously wrong all trains would go towards there so just hop on the next available one.

Also, there's tube trains every 1-4 minutes at most, so it's not the end of the world if you miss one.

One other thing, it's gonna be VERY warm, there's a heatwave in the UK this week and it's 32 degrees C today (and 30 degrees C average for this week). I'm not sure what will happen next week yet but if all signs are clear it'll either: rain-none-stop-flood/snow/drop to 15 degrees C, but regardless, you're looking at least 28 degrees C (80 degrees according to my calculator) in the tube, and at that time in morning it's near impossible to get a seat, so pack some towels/tissues/water.

Oh, the DLR (Docklands Light Railway) is an overground rail system so it'll be cooler up there than in the tube.



So ... yeah, long post, but when I go to work tommorow I can take some preliminary pics if you want to get a head start.

[wop]

Heathrow Express runs every 15 mins.
Sometimes, taking the Heathrow Connect (if you missed th Express) CAN BE faster than the Express. Just a tip.

Also, if you are getting off from the Heathrow Connect, you'll most probably be getting off platform 12 to 15. There's a small exit straight to the Bakerloo line at the end of platform 12 (saves you time from walking a big round from the big tube entrance opposite Burger King)

[Byrthnoth]

The trip is this Thursday morning (in two days.) Any pictures you could take would be appreciated, as it seems the train/tube is the best option and we obviously don't know where we're going!

[wop]

Take the Heathrow Express/Connect to Paddington and Taxi from there to City Airport.
That's the safest bet.

The only bottleneck I see is M25 from Heathrow into London. Always a nightmare during peak hours.

[Takedown3]

you are both fucked

i've been thru heathrow 10+ times and at that time in the morning it will be a complete nightmare

enjoy your stay in london might as well just head to amsterdam instead of madrid. cheaper and more fun anyway

[The Stig]

Right, I'll do what I can tommorow morning. There's 2 trains I catch so I'll just catch the earlier one to get some window of time when I get to paddington, shouldn't be an issue.

If I fail completely to take a picture/respond then assume my equipment broken or I am running late.

[Takedown3]

stig why dont you escort them personally, i'm sure for a modest fee you can get them there in time

[The Stig]

Well, that did cross my mind but I'm afraid of failing, because I'll feel guilty then and everything and it'll all go crap =p

[Takedown3]

well if you fail the worst thing that can happen is that you have some house guests.

[Byrthnoth]

Actually, as long as we make it to the airport we'll likely end up in Madrid by the end of the day. There's another flight going out of London City Airport for Madrid at 6:30PM that we could probably get on. There are also numerous flights out of Heathrow for Madrid (about one every hour,) so worst case we work our way back across London and fly out of Heathrow. In fact, what time do the bars (pubs?) open in London? I get the feeling I'm going to need a stiff drink if I have to go back across, and I might as well get it en route!

I actually didn't give the full account of our battles with Travelocity and British Airways. I'll do it now for added frustration. If SE hadn't been training me in the art of dealing with bad customer service for the last 5 years, I might not have been prepared to handle this:

1) Originally we called British Airways and asked to change the flight. They said no because we booked through Travelocity so we technically weren't their customers. Travelocity buys the tickets and resells them, so they're the ones responsible and the only ones that can change the tickets as we didn't even pay for them in the eyes of British Airways.
2) Next, we called Travelocity (Read: India). They said that if we wanted to change anything about the flight they'd have to cancel the booking and rebook the flight at current rates, which would cost us over $800 per ticket (~600+240 rebooking fee.) At one point we got the Indian operator to call British Airways for us to see if he could do anything. He said that he could change the tickets for only $250 each. We were about ready to accept his offer just to have everything done with when he put us into a conference call with the British Airways rep and disconnected himself. The British Airways rep was pissed and said he was going to try and report the Travelocity guy, but noted there was nothing he could do without him.
3) We called Travelocity back, couldn't get the same offer from anyone. Best offer we got was $600 to change each ticket. We suspect the first Travelocity guy realized he'd fucked something up when he offered us $250 per ticket and DCed himself.
4) We called Travelocity back again and kept asking to speak to supervisors until we got someone in the US. They still offered us the $600 per ticket. At this point, we asked them if we could just buy another ticket to Madrid from Heathrow (~$230, making it the cheapest option available.) They not only said "No", but also told us that if we didn't show up at London City Airport, we would be considered a "No show" and the rest of our travel arrangements including our return trip would be automatically cancelled.
5) Yesterday, we drove up to PHL international a few hours before I made this thread to talk to the British Airways people at the ticket counters. They tried to help us, but the computer wouldn't let them change the ticket because the whole trip was linked together as one itinerary. They also kept saying, "Well, we can't change it yet because you aren't in route yet." And then we'd ask, "So if there are planes going out of Heathrow to Madrid that aren't full, and we're in Heathrow, could you change it?" and they'd say "No >.> <,< >.>" which maybe made us think it was actually a yes?
6) I made this thread, and we subsequently decided to try and use the trains!


So yeah, we really need to make it or we potentially lose our return trip and get nothing. It seems that it's entirely possible the whole thing will be resolved within minutes of us landing, especially if our plane arrives late and we get a nice British Airways rep. If the plane is Late, it's British Airways' responsibility to get us to Madrid and they can change our flight. A Late (gets changed) or Early (more time) arrival is what we'd like. On Time is the enemy.



This is the suggested route from the London Transportation Journey planner we found, and seems to be the same as the one described in this thread:
1) Heathrow Express from Terminal 5 to Paddington Station (Zone 6,1)
2) Paddington Station to Paddington Underground (7 minute walk?)
3) Bakerloo Line towards Elephant & Castle (Zone 1)
4) Bakers Street Underground station -> Jubilee line towards Stratford or West Ham (doesn't matter) - Looks like we're going south out of the Bakers Street station. (Zone 1,2,3)
5) Canning Street DLR station (I assume we get off at the Canning Street Underground and it's also a DLR station/the Station is nearby?) -> towards Woolwich Arsenal DLR (Zone 3)
6) Arrive at London City Airport DLR station.

I've tried reading Wikipedia and I don't quite get the zone system. The way I'm reading it, that'd be one for the Heathrow Express (Zone 6 ticket?), one to get to the Canning Street DLR station (Zone 3 ticket?), and one to get to the Airport via the DLR (Zone 3 ticket?)

What tickets do I have to buy, and can I buy them all with a credit card? Can I buy them all at once, or will I be buying them each time? Our bank here won't get its next shipment of pounds until the day after we leave, so we're either going to have to burn money and time at the shitty currency exchange booths in the airport or use a credit card to get these tickets.

[The Stig]

Ok I'm here, with pics. brb while I modify and upload.

EDIT: Will upload, some shit came up at work and I'm trying to resolve that first. Oh, make sure to check back for some lulz

Ok:

Tickets

Technically 1 ticket should cover you as you're travelling from 1 destination on the map to another. However, I do not trust people to be helpful at that time in the morning, I would do this:

1 - One ticket from Heathrow to Paddington on the express trains
2 - From Paddington buy a SINGLE ZONE journey to whatever zone London City Airport sits in. London Underground tickets can be freely used across all services that are on the tube map. London Travel cards (1 day ones) can be freely used to travel on ALL public transport (buses, trains within london). However as you are not doing that you only need to buy the Single Zone journey
3 - If you feel you are NOT going to make it to London City Airport in time, buy a ONE DAY TRAVEL CARD so you don't have to pay to go back (at the cost of £2-3 more I believe) || In the event you fail to get to London City Airport in time you can use this travel card and go via the Piccadilly Line back to Heathrow 5, yes it will (should) cover it.

##NOTE## Using: Fare finder &#124; Transport for London if you hammer in "From: London Heathrow Terminal 5" (it'll auto complete for you) and "To: London City Airport" the cost is £4 which is the cost of all "single journey" tickets, distance does NOT matter. However, this only seems to apply if you're using the Piccadilly Line (Tube) from Terminal 5. I would not trust/try going on the express train with that ticket.

4 - Canning Street, yes the DLR would most likely be on top/very close by. As it is only 1 line crossing another line it will be fairly easy to find (signs pointing to DLR should be littered everywhere). However my nightmare story involves going to "Bow Road" (a bit north and then east of the map) where it says the DLR station is within 100meters of the station, turned into a near 500metre walk for me due to lack of signs. But then again they were not "directly on top of each other"

5 - You can purchase via credit card (I've not tried) but I'm sure it'll be fine. I've not been abroad at this age before (with credit cards and such) but I believe it's possible to insert your credit card, use your pin, then withdraw cash from ATM? (Then it'll just get charged to your credit card)

5a - If you CAN withdraw cash like that, take £100 out between you 2. A bottle of coke can/will cost £1.50-2.50 (depending on location/how close to a train station), Big Mac Meal £3.50, a basic sandwich can cost £3-5 depending on quality. It's NOT cheap, so be prepared for a shock.

6 - Pubs should open at around 11~12 (serving lunch as well) (a meal can cost £5-£10 (£10s are usually steaks) but I've not eaten in a pub before in London), a pint of coke will cost £2 usually, while I'll allow/expect £3-4 for a pint of alcholol

7 - This might sound anal, but alcohol is NOT allowed on public transport in London. Long Distance trains seem to be OK however, but you're not going to be going on that.

8 - As a travelling tourist, you are obliged to cock block everyone and annoy them while going your way around
- Take ages to get through the ticket barrier
- Stand on both sides of the escalator
- Be slow
- Talk loud (but everyone can hear you)
- Jihad if applicable

Walkthrough

Pictures

As promised, here are the pictures. I will do my best to describe them so you know absolutely which way to go:

Platform 12
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...Platform12.jpg

Note that I am facing the direction all trains come into Paddington at. You should in general be heading down the same direction to get to the underground. You will end up on this platform if you are using the SLOW Heathrow Trains (Heathrow Connect)

Platform 12 - End
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...end-corner.jpg

This is what it looks like at the end of Platform 12. You want to be going around those 2 red bumps and heading to the right. Direction Right from the point of view of the picture. You will encounter the ticket barriers here (you can see it on the right of the picture).

##NOTE## Wop recommended a route from Platform 12:

Also, if you are getting off from the Heathrow Connect, you'll most probably be getting off platform 12 to 15. There's a small exit straight to the Bakerloo line at the end of platform 12 (saves you time from walking a big round from the big tube entrance opposite Burger King)

I heavily advised against this as this route is one big cluster fuck during rush hour. So I have decided to not mention it here.

Plaform 6 and 7
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...latform6an.jpg

If you use the Heathrow Express trains you will end up on either side of these platforms shown here (I had to go up this bridge to take such a pic!). If you do end up there, head towards the "white light" (the glass). You will go past 1 ticket barrier on the way.

Underground Entrance - The Glass/White Light
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...undEntranc.jpg

LOLOLOLOL at the guy staring at me. I hope it's no one on BG I know. Anyway, there's an underground sign in the middle of the pic, and you can see people going down some stairs. Go down them.

Underground Entrance - Bottom of the stairs
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...ttomoftheS.jpg

A bit blurry here as I was having a difficult time finding a spot. But underneath the 4 monitors you should see some ATM-lookalike machines on the wall. You can buy your tickets there manually, or go forward a little bit (still located on the left wall) you'll find a place to queue to buy tickets.

Just tell him you want to go to London City Airport or a One Day Travelcard (mention the Airport too just incase)

Underground Entrance - Ticket Barriers
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...cketBarrie.jpg

A little bit ahead is the ticket barriers. Before the barriers (on the left) should be the queue where you can buy tickets from a person.

From here you will come to a wall with a route going "straight" or a little route/tunnel going to the left. The "straight" route leads to the Circle and District lines (you can see it in the pic if you look closely). Do NOT go there, instead follw the other sign that points left to go to the Bakerloo Line.

Bakerloo Line Route
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...ce-Bakerlo.jpg

This is what the route I was talking about looks like. Go down it. Stick to the left of the "barrier" as on the right is for the other direction people traffic

Bakerloo Line Entrance
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...rsEntrance.jpg

At the end of that small route described is the open area for where the escalators are located to go down the Bakerloo Line (notice the sign?)

Bakerloo Line Escalators
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...-BeforeDes.jpg

Not sure why I took this pic. But go down the escalators anyway. If you want to troll people, both of you should stand on the same escalator step to stop people in a rush from running down the escalators.

Bakerloo Line Escalators - Bottom
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...kerlooLine.jpg

2 paths here. As you come off the escalators, turn right. Platform 4 [Southbound] will have each and every train going to and past Baker Street. The other platform will take you out of London, so do not turn left.

Bakerloo Line Platform 4
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...dPlatform2.jpg

Not sure why I took this pic either. But get on the damn train. And mind the gap. If possible, go along the platform (the way I am facing is the direction the train is coming from. So from this point of view, the train is coming towards me) and get on the train at the end of the train.

Baker Street - Bakerloo Line Southbound Platform
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...tformBaker.jpg

I took this pic from the END of the platform (end of the last train I got off from). As you can see it's a bendy platform/station. There is a tunnel at this end of the platform and the other end of the platform which will lead you to Jubilee Line Platform (Southbound). Use either one of the tunnels. All other routes between these 2 routes will lead else where (normally going on some stairs). So if you find yourself going up the stairs for any reason at Baker Street, you're going the wrong way.

Jubilee Line Platform - Baker Street
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...ubileeLine.jpg

And finally, Jubilee Line. I took this pic from where I got off at Baker Street (end of the train). So likewise, when the train arrives here it'll also be the end of the train. From the point of view on this photo, the train will zip to the right past me.

Get on the train, mind the gap (lol), and from here if you can find a seat, take a small break.

[wop]

Ok I'm here, with pics. brb while I modify and upload.

EDIT: Will upload, some shit came up at work and I'm trying to resolve that first. Oh, make sure to check back for some lulz

Do you still take the tube from Paddington to Vauxhall?

I've started taking the bus (no change-36 or 436 direct) and it's only 30 mins lol.
Much more comfortable (seats always available) than tube.

[The Stig]

Do you still take the tube from Paddington to Vauxhall?

I've started taking the bus (no change-36 or 436 direct) and it's only 30 mins lol.
Much more comfortable (seats always available) than tube.

Yes, however I will consider the bus route because my ticket will expire soon and will experiment on the bus. This will also save me money. We'll see.

I will piss myself laughing if someone makes an avatar out of that guy who was staring at me when I took the pic.

EDIT: if my pics come up as photobucket pics later on let me know via here and I will upload them to a download service. lolfreeaccount limitations

[Draggy]

lol at the random guy staring at you, just.. lol i dunno why he looks so funny

[Byrthnoth]

Thank a ton; the guide is awesome! I transferred the whole thing to a Word document and printed it out (so pictures weren't split.)

Look for us tomorrow morning! We'll be the two silly Americans carrying a picture-book guide going, "Hmm... this looks like the place!" In all seriousness though, I'll be wearing shorts, glasses, and this shirt:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/wootsaleimag...rs71Detail.png