Thread: Let's talk about Ranger    

I'm a career Ranger, and damn proud of it. Since Ye Olde Nerf of 2005, I've worked really hard to remind the people around me that Ranger is NOT a dead job, and that we can still carry our weight in a variety of situations. It takes the proper expertise, equipment and attention to detail, but it can still be done. In fact, I've said many times that I think the Ranger nerf was one of the best things to happen to Rangers. Not only did it fix the game (we were undoubtedly broken), but it forced out the bandwagoners who thought "money = effective damage" and now die-hard Rangers (and even Rangers in general) are more skilled and conscious of their performance than ever before.

Still I find myself, along with other top-notch Rangers of today, working hard to cope with the same challenges which reared their ugly heads after that patch two years ago. Squeenix has thrown us a bone or two to help us deal with them (namely Snapshot and Flashy Shot), but I still think that the Ranger job requires more attention, and I've even heard non-Rangers say this on the forums lately. And so, I'd like to start some discussion about what changes people think could improve the Ranger job, without restoring its easily-abused overpowered status of before the patch.

DISCLAIMER: READ THIS BEFORE POSTING HERE, PLEASE

• This thread is not for QQing, if all you're gonna do is cry and moan, then lurk some more[/*:m:66ef9]
• This thread is not about 2-handed damage/accuracy changes. While Rangers face some of the same challenges as 2-handers, do not derail this into a discussion of the 2-handed changes.[/*:m:66ef9]
• Ranger should NOT go back to the way it was in 2005. It was broken, and if they brought it back it would be just as broken. If you post that SE should put Ranger back the way it was, then you are not contributing to this discussion.[/*:m:66ef9]
• If you think Ranger is fine the way it is, then feel free to share it, but don't be ugly about it or discourage others from posting their ideas.[/*:m:66ef9]

I hope to write a summary of ideas we come up with here and send them to the FFXI team (via the lol POL function, yes) or even see if any of the community sites or other people with ties to Square Enix can present them at least in written form.

I think we are capable of some very good ideas here, and I'm looking forward to hearing what current, retired and non-Rangers have to offer. I'll begin.

Eagle Eye Shot

Eagle Eye Shot is one of the least impressive 2-hour abilities in FFXI today. While it isn't the worst, it still has some key limitations. Let's examine some of the positive and negative characteristics of Eagle Eye Shot:

Pros:

- Delivers an instant, high-damage attack through a Job Ability. No other Job Ability delivers such high and accurate damage.

- The attack provides TP just as a normal Ranged Attack would, which can help in a pinch.

- It is possible to execute Eagle Eye Shot at a modest distance as long as the character can see its target.

Cons:

- The ability is not a 100% accurate attack. Especially on high-level or highly-evasive monsters, there is a chance that Eagle Eye Shot can miss entirely, yielding no result. There is also an increased chance of missing when the character is blinded. While 2x Weakened, Eagle Eye Shot has poor accuracy and never does more than 0 damage.

- Monster statuses like Blink and Utsusemi can also cause the ability to miss and have no effect.

- Sidewinder and Barrage are capable of much more damage output than Eagle Eye Shot is. Research indicates that Eagle Eye Shot is much like a Sidewinder but without the STR/AGI modifiers, which makes it inherently weaker, albeit more accurate.

- When it comes down to it, Eagle Eye Shot is nothing more than a powerful, ranged Jump, which DRG has starting at level 10 and any job can access through a subjob. Moreover, Spirit Surge makes Jumps more potent and adds special effects.

As we can see from this examination, Eagle Eye Shot is, all things considered, very underwhelming for a SP ability. Still, it is a very characterisitc ability - if we can improve it, it may help bring some better balance for Rangers vs. other jobs.

Possibilities to Consider:

- Allow Eagle Eye Shot to strike its target without fail. If there is no chance of the ability missing, then it will be much more reliable as a desperation attack in dire situations, or as a sure-fire way to defeat a weakened enemy.

- Make Eagle Eye Shot ignore all defensive status effects on its target. If Eagle Eye Shot is able to penetrate the enemy's defenses when other methods cannot, then it will be much more unique among the different job abilities. Specifically, Eagle Eye Shot could deal damage through Cerberus's Magma Hoplon effect, Hydra's Physical Shield, or even an enemy's Invincible effect! This would make Eagle Eye Shot far more useful than just a damaging ability.

- Simply increase the damage on Eagle Eye Shot so that it stands out above Sidewinder and Barrage for strict damage-dealing potential. This is fairly straightforward.

- Add an additional effect to Eagle Eye Shot. This could be one of many things, like an Evasion Down effect, a Defense Down effect, or even an Amnesia effect. If Eagle Eye Shot could be used strategically to help everyone in battle against the enemy would make it much more valuable.

If Eagle Eye Shot is enhanced, then it may give Rangers a unique role against many enemies instead of simply dealing damage!

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This is only the first of my ideas, there will be more! Please share yours, I would love to hear them and discuss them.

Just have STR/AGI = ranged attack/accuracy on bow, AGI/STR = ranged attack/accuracy on marksmanship. Problem solved.

Originally Posted by Veli

RNG was never broken. RNG was what a Top DD is now. It cost money to do damage then the job should be the highest DD.

This is a valid comment in reference to EXP PTs and mid-level mobs, but on the whole, HNMs crumbled under the arrows and bullets of Rangers before the nerf, and all while subbing NIN. Today's RNG/WAR is hardly equivalent to 2005's RNG/NIN on high-level monsters. If that doesn't speak to you about how overpowered RNG was, then I'm not sure how else to say it.

Originally Posted by Mohican

Originally Posted by happydude

Except for that fact
that we threw gil for damage instead of the current 2handers.

Cost is the main reason I almost never go RNG now. I was a career RNG about 6months post patch... then I started leveling other jobs and realized how stupid it was to farm/craft just to be able to slightly outdmg someone (and this was before the recent 2-hander boost)

I realize there is not a fix for the problem that is reasonable (ie: unlimited ammo), and bringing down the price of ammo wouldn't help an economy that is already declining... but that's my "Let's talk about Ranger" post.

As sad as I am to say it, this argument doesn't hold up as well after Recycle was added as a merit ability. I know it's lol in comparison with the other merits, but with a Scout's Beret and three Recycle merits, you use almost 50% less ammo than you would without. It all goes back to the bones Squeenix throws us... and lately there have been situational Recycle+ gears for Salvage and Besieged.

It's true however, it is a signfiicant cost, and it's one of the "Ranger woes" I intend to write about.

Originally Posted by Keno

I just read the first post and all I can say is that to complain about RNG 2 hour is really, really dumb. Many jobs have far worse 2 hour than RNG (read:NIN/THF/BST/etc.). I'd be looking more to get R.Acc fixed or have 1 STR = 1 R.Atk.

EDIT: OK, it's not dumb to complain about it, but RNG 2 hour is fine the way it is. Maybe adding the STR/AGI mods would make it a little more even with some of the other job two hours, but then it'd far surpass most job 2 hours.

I agree, and I acknowledged that EES is far from the worst 2-hour out there (I am after all a THF75...) but the least they could do is make it a 100%-hit. It's ridiculous to see "Shadida uses Eagle Eye Shot, but misses." and it only became a big problem after the nerf, so something's up.

Originally Posted by Keno

I suppose you haven't seen a kraken/BZ drk or the new pimped out DRG zerg? Even a hundred fisting mnk would probably outparse over the time HF takes. But I guess if you mean ultra burst damage, like in under five seconds, then yeah, I suppose you're right.

If you're talking about "exotic" gear sets, then give the RNG a Kraken Club and even after the initial unload they'll be dropping absurdly high damage WS's every 10 seconds at most. FWIW, RNG can, with (relatively) little cost get a solid 8-12k damage gearset for ganked HNM like DL, KV, Baha2,etc.

RNG's main problem now is mostly DoT and TP gain. Ranged attacks alone are too slow for the damage they deal to compete with melee jobs, and with the recent 2h buffs, the WS damage isn't nearly enough to pull them up to an even level with them. Insult to injury even, ranged crits suck. Rather than a flat PDIF+1.0 like melee have, we simply get a 1.25x boost to our attack...which at a capped ratio, sure, is nice. We go from 3.0 to 3.75. But generally it's just rather lackluster, and doesn't add much damage at all.

Oh, and pre-nerf RNG was the same damage shot-for-shot for the mostpart. Assuming you fire at the "optimal" distance, the damage is identical. Pre-nerf though had a PDIF floor of 1.0, so no matter how shitty your gear, food, or support were, you'd deal damage roughly equal to that of your weapon.

But I believe they buffed Empyreal Arrow&Detonator to try to help in a similar fashion. But I haven't heard much about their changes other than they've been improved.

Empyreal/Detonator seem to do about 12-1400 damage now at 300% with buffs, regardless of how high or low the level of the target is. With the (admitedly) little chance i've had to play with it at 300% post-patch, it feels like it's been made into the RNG version of Wheeling Thrust.


/waits for VZX

Originally Posted by alphacat

Rng has never been a weak job, it's always either a top tier DD or mid-high DD. You have to realize that every 2H can be the most awesome thing ever. Nin has the most useless 2h, and you don't see them whine about it. For them it's a free D2, and they live with it. How about bst 2hr, it's also very very limited. I think you just have to realize that every 2h is not soul voice, and is situational. Rng provides one of the best spike damage in a zerg situation, Sidewinder>EES>Barrage>Sidewinder, now that's fucking sick. The fact that you don't see many people rave about rng is because not many people play it, and that is because money is the limiting factor, not the ability to dish out hurt. It's the same as why corsair isn't played. So, please, just enjoy your job, NO MORE WHINING please!

I wonder if people can get banned for doing specifically what the OP said not to do in what is supposed to be a constructive discussion.


As for the discussion, I'd think it'd help the job's popularity to have a recycle job trait (gotten at low levels) in addition to the gear that provides the trait.