How low can I haggle this? (yet another car thread weee)

[archibaldcrane]

I hope it's not because I can imagine you're right that it would be a no haggle deal.

Are the photos the same or no? (I don't mean "look the same" - I mean the same photos.)

[Lucavi]

See, Ksandra, if you had married me, you wouldn't be having this problem. Tsk tsk.

On topic: I'd go no higher than $12,500 and walk. Even if it is a trusted dealer, you still don't want to pay more than you have to for the vehicle, especially given that its used and you know the dealer will try to use the hidden value to his/her advantage.

[Ksandra]

Are the photos the same or no? (I don't mean "look the same" - I mean the same photos.)

nope

[Ksandra]

I have 20 minutes to purchase this car if you want? Other's are bidding on it now so its like ebay...can you let me know now? I know last second but these are hard to find and go so fast

Guess no rabbit for me today!


Oh I had another question, what happens with buying a car out of state? I have never done it before but I saw one from AZ once that I liked. I know people do it sometimes because different states are cheaper, but I think they charge you when you bring the car instate? Is that true? How much?

[archibaldcrane]

Guess no rabbit for me today!


Oh I had another question, what happens with buying a car out of state? I have never done it before but I saw one from AZ once that I liked. I know people do it sometimes because different states are cheaper, but I think they charge you when you bring the car instate? Is that true? How much?

Oh god your dealer is fucking hilarious.

As far as out of state goes, you'll have to pay the California sales tax when you register the car in CA (so your registration is going to be like 1.65% of the sale price to register plus 8.25% for sales taxes) - if buying from a private party that's simple, you just pay the sale price and get the pink slip filled out and signed by the seller, which you take to the DMV to register and pay taxes/registration on the amount shown on the pink slip - if buying from a dealership I'm not sure exactly how it works - if you don't have to pay sales tax there in AZ and they don't give you AZ registration or what.

[Militant]

I sold cars for over 3 years and know the in's and out's of the car business. That said, its a lot trickier buying a used car than it is a new one because of so many factors. If you want to ensure you get the best deal possible on the car, go in, check the car out, take it for a ride. If everything seems kosher, go ahead and sit down with the sales rep and this part will be easy because he has given you initial proposal already. Tell him you like the car, but you are not completely sold yet, and you can't fit the payment in your budget (even if you can). If this salesman is worth his salt, his first option will be to kick the loan out to a longer term, thus lowering your payment, and keeping the price of his car the same. I used to do this all the time, in fact, lots of times I'd even raise the price of the car, but go to a longer term to show a lower payment, and people would fall for this time and time again. Make sure that he has to go see his sales/desk manager at least twice during the negotiation process. This will usually happen when you reach a stalemate in the deal, and he will go speak to his manager and see how much further they can wiggle on the price. If you can get the salesman to T.O. (turn over) you to his manager, you are doing great. The managers job is to come in and close the deal, but again, don't bite at the managers first proposal, be prepared to walk out (even if you really, REALLY, want the car.) When you finally say "You know I do wish we could make a deal, but we are still just a bit apart" (say thanks, and start to walk out at this time) the manager will likely give you his "walk" price. 9 times out of 10, the walk price is the lowest price they are willing to sell the car for. This is where you are most likely going to get your best deal.

Another thing I'd like to add is that if possible, procure your own financing through whatever bank/credit union or means possible. This is to ensure that you get a legit interest rate. You see, another way good dealers make their money is by jacking up your interest rate a few points (and yes, this is 100% legal, to a certain point). The bank may qualify you for 6.9% APR, and yet the finance manager will tell you they got you a great prime rate of 8.9%. Another 2% worth of interest on a 15,000 loan for 60 or 72 months, is a shitload of cash. This is how the finance managers (the guy you will sign all the contracts with) make their money, by rate jacking. This is why I reccomend getting your own financing if possible. Any further questions feel free to PM/post.

edit: when buying out of state you pay sales tax on wherever you are going to register the car.

When you advertise and sell cars on the internet, you have to be VERY, VERY, competitive with price, or else people wont even walk in the door. Speaking from past experience, if an "internet" price on a car I was selling was 14,995, the "walk-in" price, was probably around 16,495 or 16,895, something like that. Since you got your first price via an e-mail correspondence, I'd guess he is already giving you a discounted "price" from the normal walk in price. Good used car dealers will not sell a used car for less than $1800-$2000 profit, otherwise, its just not worth it. The above poster suggesting walking at $12,500 is way, way, too low assuming the 15k he quoted you was their "internet" price. Check their website, see if they have an account with autotrader or cars.com. Again, when dealers post cars on these websites, they have to be VERY aggressive in their pricing or else no one will call. Typically, the dealers I worked for, only had 300-800 dollars of wiggle room in our autotrader/cars.com/internet prices, sometimes, we wouldn't budge off those numbers at all. Just some more food for thought.

[Korietsu]

What is a good/safe hatchback/wagon that's in the same price range?

I am not against not getting a VW. I wanted to for 2 reasons: I figured I'd might have a better incentive because I've had a car through them previously, and because of this I also know they are a trusted dealership since I've already worked with them. And I care about safety/long-lasting than anything else. The Rabbit's have awesome reviews for not falling apart, and are extremely safe.

So if there's something else that is a strong/well-made/safe car for the same price lemme know.

You can get a brand new Ford Fiesta for the same price as your used golf/rabbit. They're sportier, easier to work on, get near identical mileage, have more room, and they drive like a dream. They're also one of the most popular world rally cars on the market right now, next to the subaru impreza (out of your price range) and the citroen ds3 or c4, which aren't available in the states. I might also suggest a Mazda 3 Hatchback, or Hyundai Accent hatchback.

[Militant]

You can get a brand new Ford Fiesta for the same price as your used golf/rabbit. They're sportier, easier to work on, get near identical mileage, have more room, and they drive like a dream. They're also one of the most popular world rally cars on the market right now, next to the subaru impreza (out of your price range) and the citroen ds3 or c4, which aren't available in the states. I might also suggest a Mazda 3 Hatchback, or Hyundai Accent hatchback.

Mazda 3 and the Hyundai are both great suggestions. (lol hyundai I know, but their quality has gone up 100 fold over the past 10 years, seriously). Not to sound like an elitest car know it all guru (even if I kind of am, having sold cars for years, and now an ASE certified mechanic, I know the car business from both ends, inside and out), that said, stay away from the ford.

[Korietsu]

Old fiestas yes, new fiesta is a beast.

[archibaldcrane]

You can get a brand new Ford Fiesta for the same price as your used golf/rabbit. They're sportier, easier to work on, get near identical mileage

4 door 2011 golf is 24/31mpg, Fiesta is 29/40mpg. Near identical?

[Eliseos]

Also recommending the Mazda3 hatch. I have a 2010 sedan, and I used to work at a Mazda/VW dealership and the only reason why most 3's were in for service was for scheduled maintenance. We probably had an average ratio of VW to Mazda of about 3 to 1, at least. I am leasing my 3 (it's one model under the top of the line, it has GPS/push button start/sun roof/keyless entry etc), payments are around $230/month for a 3 year/36K mile lease. I think if I were to upgrade to a 45K mile lease it would have only been about $20-30 more a month. If you aren't averse to a new car, I'd suggest looking at a lease. You won't have to worry about something going wrong with a used car, and payments are generally going to be cheaper. I think my total loan for the lease is about $9k, which is obviously a lot cheaper than buying the car outright.

[Korietsu]

4 door 2011 golf is 24/31mpg, Fiesta is 29/40mpg. Near identical?

I had assumed that the petrol golf was doing as well as it's TDI and euro petrol cousin, apparently not so.

[Miragemaiden]

Like Eliseos said, Mazda3 hatch is definitely a good one for the price range you're looking at. Any reason why you're looking specifically into hatchbacks?

As for buying out of state, don't forget to factor in shipping. Depending on who/how it's shipped, it could add another grand onto the sales price.

[Melena]

If your credit is good raise a stink about the apr. When I bought my civic in 08 the first dealer offered me 7.9% and my credit is over 700. I wound up walking and going back to my first dealer at 4.84%. If I had a better job at the time I probably could have gotten even better.

But yea shop around. Even if you love your current dealer, so long a's you stick to just them they know they have you by the balls

[Cantide~]

Just wanted to chime in that I am enjoying my mazda3 very very much and have had no problems at all. Also I wish I would have taken Militant to the dealership with me :3

[Ksandra]

hmmm awesome info militant, I never thought about how the prices could change on the internet and for sure I'll start looking at car loans outside of the dealers, I never thought about that. Come fly to CA to help me at the dealership!!! <3


I will definitely check out the mazda3 since all the recommendations!

Like Eliseos said, Mazda3 hatch is definitely a good one for the price range you're looking at. Any reason why you're looking specifically into hatchbacks?

It may sound stupid, but me wants a baby in the next 1-2 years (*''). Now ideally, I would love a station wagon, but they are usually 2k-3k more than a hatchback. And getting things out of a hatchback (ie. baby carriage) is much easier than in a sedan. Plus it's probably just an illusion but I always feel a hatchback is more roomier.


As to why I don't go bigger with say an SUV/minivan/van/etc. I don't like to drive cars that are too big, and like to be low to the ground.

[edit] so ya I do have more questions for Militant or anyone else who may know.

1. When I got the car they said I can sometimes gain equity on the car towards a new lease/buy car/etc. how likely is that? and usually how much?

2. would the dealership be more likely to work with me because I bought from them before, therefore it'd be easier to get a better deal off them.

3. I really didn't want to get a new lease cause I didn't want my money going into thin air (like my bug), but lease to buy might be an option, but on average how much a money loss is that? (from the interest since I'd be paying off the car for like 8 years instead of 4)

4. Just to see, are most the stuff they show online just like cars they can't get rid off? About how much of their inventory will they show online? Just for curiosity sake to see which dealers I should be going to.

[Stromgarde]

Echoing that the Mazda3 is a great option. I've had mine for about a year now, and side from getting blindsided by some asswipe that ran a stop sign and it currently being in the shop, it's been great. The integrated bluetooth option that they have is particularly nice for a car in that range.

[Eliseos]

1. When I got the car they said I can sometimes gain equity on the car towards a new lease/buy car/etc. how likely is that? and usually how much?

You need to owe less on your car than what it's actually worth. This is usually done with shorter loans. Cars don't really appreciate in value, so the shorter it's paid for the more it'll be worth. I think dealers usually give a little bit less than the difference between how much left you owe on a car, and what they are valuing the car at.

As for leasing to buy, I wouldn't do it. The invoice price on my car was around $20k, and I mentioned my loan was only for about $9k in three years. I don't remember exactly what my numbers were going to be if I bought the car at the end of the lease (it's in my lease somewhere, they tell you when you sign for the lease) but it was something ridiculously higher than what I pay now, and my car wouldn't be worth shit since I'd be putting more money into what the car would be worth by then. As soon as I saw whatever number they gave (I'm pretty sure it was upwards of $300 which would make sense since that's what I would be paying now had I bought my car instead of leased) I knew I wouldn't ever be buying my car.

[Ksandra]

What do you guys think of the Nissan Versa? They have a deal going on right now:

http://local.nissanusa.com/san-diego...hatchback.html

which means I could get a new one rather than buying used.

(so I guess compare getting a new versa vs. a 2006~ mazda 3).

True car has it where I'd get it for about $12,734 with the $1000 perk. which is lower than I was expecting to get on a car anyway.

[archibaldcrane]

Thing is, you can do well on the 2010s now if there are some left on lots. The 2011s just came out and this is generally the worst time to buy the new models. That being said, that $1,000 incentive is pretty good considering they just came out.

I've driven a Nissan Sentra since '03 and I like it just fine, the Versa is actually a step down from that even but I don't have any first-hand experience with it. It's going to be one of the cheapest 4-door hatchbacks you can find though, 2 grand lower than even the Fiesta.