How to identify a homophobe

[Cadsuane]

If Seph is our mascot then I want to play for a different team.

There's lots of em on BG. About half share the insufferably creepy and lonely and socially inept with compensatory addictions to unforgiveably weird pornography internet archetype.

edit: oh shit I'm cykowanalizing again its unfunny

[pahnphoenix]

to atone for my occasional walls of text, am i right in summarizing the kuya/ksandra argument that i skimmed as follows:

kuya: nerds and gays are attacked for being a threat to conventional gender roles.

ksandra: nuh-uh.

is that right? if so, i'll stay concise and say that nerds and gays are attacked for a multitude of reasons, some of which overlap and some of which don't. therefore, nuh-uh.

[archibaldcrane]

I still think that there is something (whether social/religious/fear/Idon'tknow), that makes people more inclined to attack someone who is gay vs. someone who is a nerd. I agree there's that fundamental basis about "being different" which can come to anything not just nerds (ie. obesity), but I do think there's more it it than just that when it comes to gays that bullies are so against.

Just depends on where you're at. I grew up in a pretty liberal college town (Madison) where rainbow flags and pink triangles were commonplace in some neighborhoods - kids in my school had gay parents, "experimenting with lesbianism" was rampant, and every grade had probably 2 or 3 "out" gay guys - many of whom were not "social outcasts" - drama, choir, band, etc found plenty good homes for them. Picking on the gays wasn't particularly "cool".

The fact that they were out probably helped though - if you think someone's a closet case and they rage when you call them a fag, it provides endless bully entertainment. If someone's already like "yeah I'm totally a huge fag" it's not nearly as fun.

[BerenTebogo]

As you said you are just a specific case, and therefore can't be proof of the whole, but at least you might understand why I think the way I do then considering it basically happened to you. (even though you aren't actually gay)

I still think that there is something (whether social/religious/fear/Idon'tknow), that makes people more inclined to attack someone who is gay vs. someone who is a nerd. I agree there's that fundamental basis about "being different" which can come to anything not just nerds (ie. obesity), but I do think there's more it it than just that when it comes to gays that bullies are so against.

The prevailing belief about what drives a bully is that they need to make themselves feel boss by preying on someone weaker than them, yes? In general, and this is a huge generalization that I may get called out on - whatever - the common archetype of a "nerd" is of someone who is going to be vastly easier prey than a "fag". I mean, think about the stereotypes, pasty, skinny, weak, basement-dwelling vs. fashion conscious, tan, pretty-boy, etc. You can't really be an attractive guy without being in shape, and the stereotype of a gay guy is not of an out-of-shape troll.

It would seem to imply that there is a discrepancy in the motives for bullying gay vs. nerd. Some of the gay guys I know who were male cheerleaders in college, or other fun stereotypes, could break the people who harass them in half without a thought, yet it doesn't always prevent the harassment (just ends up being group bullying vs. one person instead of one on one). The bully who is bullying to prey on the weak isn't as likely to attempt to victimize somebody who could knock a few of their teeth out.

It's all supposition and I admit I don't have the firmest grasp on the underlying concepts, but I don't know. I have to agree with both you and Kuya for different reasons I guess.

[Ksandra]

to atone for my occasional walls of text, am i right in summarizing the kuya/ksandra argument that i skimmed as follows:

kuya: nerds and gays are attacked for being a threat to conventional gender roles.

ksandra: nuh-uh.

is that right? if so, i'll stay concise and say that nerds and gays are attacked for a multitude of reasons, some of which overlap and some of which don't. therefore, nuh-uh.

basically except kuya thinks that's the only reason. I do agree that sometimes they are attacked for being not being inline with their "general roles" (and is probably the major reason), but it's not the only reason.

Just depends on where you're at. I grew up in a pretty liberal college town (Madison) where rainbow flags and pink triangles were commonplace in some neighborhoods - kids in my school had gay parents, "experimenting with lesbianism" was rampant, and every grade had probably 2 or 3 "out" gay guys - many of whom were not "social outcasts" - drama, choir, band, etc found plenty good homes for them. Picking on the gays wasn't particularly "cool".

I totally agree with you that there are places where it wouldn't be the case, I don't want to imply this is universal, the fact it changes does say more about it being a social stigma issue vs. solely being a "gender roles" issue though which is kinda what I'm getting at.

[Ksandra]

The prevailing belief about what drives a bully is that they need to make themselves feel boss by preying on someone weaker than them, yes? In general, and this is a huge generalization that I may get called out on - whatever - the common archetype of a "nerd" is of someone who is going to be vastly easier prey than a "fag". I mean, think about the stereotypes, pasty, skinny, weak, basement-dwelling vs. fashion conscious, tan, pretty-boy, etc. You can't really be an attractive guy without being in shape, and the stereotype of a gay guy is not of an out-of-shape troll.

It would seem to imply that there is a discrepancy in the motives for bullying gay vs. nerd. Some of the gay guys I know who were male cheerleaders in college, or other fun stereotypes, could break the people who harass them in half without a thought, yet it doesn't always prevent the harassment (just ends up being group bullying vs. one person instead of one on one). The bully who is bullying to prey on the weak isn't as likely to attempt to victimize somebody who could knock a few of their teeth out.

It's all supposition and I admit I don't have the firmest grasp on the underlying concepts, but I don't know. I have to agree with both you and Kuya for different reasons I guess.

I'd actually think the "stereotypical gay" would fall more into the "flammer" category, but that could just be from where I grew up more than anything. XD

I totally get what you're coming from though and understand your position. (b'')b

[Penthesilea]

oh shit, when was this purple shirt day? Hopefully it wasn't yesterday seeing as I worn one

[archibaldcrane]

Who the fuck owns a purple shirt anyway? Unless you're like, a Vikings fan, which is super gay already.

[Acturus]

oh shit, when was this purple shirt day? Hopefully it wasn't yesterday seeing as I worn one

Yes, it was yesterday. You are now forever labeled as one of them queer fags. Enjoy your buttsecks.

[Penthesilea]

Who the fuck owns a purple shirt anyway? Unless you're like, a Vikings fan, which is super gay already.

This guy did.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._5912741_n.jpg

[Galkaeater]

Fucking gays ruining the color purple
I went through all my clothes picked out the stuff with purple on it and burned the lot.

also lets have a wear, I don't know, blue day for for all the non-gays who commited suicide after being bullied.

[Kuya]

I'm genuinely dumbfounded by anyone having the audacity to refer to my sexuality as a "lifestyle".

Put an attractive male in my bed, my dick gets hard. Put an attractive female in my bed, and my flacid penis and I are going to ask if she wants to watch Sex and the City 2 while cuddling, then I'm going to masturbate to the attractive male that should have been in my bed when she leaves.

My sexuality, very much like yours, is out of my hands. Know what is in your hands? The decision to base your life choices off a book written by a bunch of farmers who were probably fucking their own sheep.

So you're not going to get her to suck your dick by saying that she should try to "turn you" straight? What a waste of a good moist legal orifice, tsuko.

[Yuri-G]

also lets have a wear, I don't know, blue day for for all the non-gays who commited suicide after being bullied.

suggestion noted and rejected, thank you

[Kuya]

It seems this comes down to:

1. Me making a precise and somewhat fleshed out statement as to what motivates bullying.

vs.

2. Supposition that there must be some other factor just because.

Sometimes i like to say statements that leave room for some other unknown factor, but when that's what your argument comes down to, you know you're on the weakest side.

Anyway, to advance the topic:

Bullying of gays is fundamentally tied to their violation of gender norms. As a society becomes more accepting of alternative ways to express gender, gays will also see much greater acceptance.

[Galkaeater]

suggestion noted and rejected, thank you

are you some kinda hetrophobe?

[Cadsuane]

are you some kinda hetrophobe?

Are you suggesting there are people out there offing themselves because they're straight?

[Max™]

In Kuya's world, there is no such thing as a female nerd.

We male nerds have long ago hunted them into extinction.

[Galkaeater]

Are you suggesting there are people out there offing themselves because they're straight?

Yeah.

[pahnphoenix]

It seems this comes down to:

1. Me making a precise and somewhat fleshed out statement as to what motivates bullying.

vs.

2. Supposition that there must be some other factor just because.

Sometimes i like to say statements that leave room for some other unknown factor, but when that's what your argument comes down to, you know you're on the weakest side.

Anyway, to advance the topic:

Bullying of gays is fundamentally tied to their violation of gender norms. As a society becomes more accepting of alternative ways to express gender, gays will also see much greater acceptance.

i kind of can't believe you're serious, but i don't care enough to argue about it and don't think it's important anyway since it's just a messageboard distinction and gender trouble is behind lots of shit anyway. i'll just baldly state that anti-intellectualism, class issues and relatively gender-neutral norms, and religion need to be considered as well. also, people bully marginalized people because people are cruel and/or need to take power over someone for whatever reason. not all bullying is norm reinforcement. just think about it for a couple minutes.

[Yugl]

to atone for my occasional walls of text, am i right in summarizing the kuya/ksandra argument that i skimmed as follows:

kuya: nerds and gays are attacked for being a threat to conventional gender roles.

ksandra: nuh-uh.

is that right? if so, i'll stay concise and say that nerds and gays are attacked for a multitude of reasons, some of which overlap and some of which don't. therefore, nuh-uh.

So basically, the last few pages has been "Fucking bullying, how does it work?".