Go vote

[Anton]

Thanks, that makes sense.

Another example of Democrats' failure to properly frame the argument. 30 billion to stop the great depression is great P.R.

Allowing the Republicans to somehow frame the Democrats as being the "big business" party is insanity.

You can't run a political platform on finances unless you did it as cool as Clinton (It's the Economy, STUPID!... classic), because, as you just saw, very little of your electorate will actually understand what you're saying. Numbers are vapid in an election when the opposition can just make some up (some of it is SERIOUSLY WTFBBQ made up), but nobody can call them on it without looking elitist and alienating.

Oh and degrading into a "I say, you say" fest that again, hardly anyone would understand.

It'd be great, but Jersey Shore is more popular than BNN and CNBC put together, so it won't happen.

EDIT: I just had a brainwave (at 4AM local). It's worth noting that TARP may only end up costing 30 Billion, but that's just the stimulus targeting the financial system. It's pretty darn important (and cheap!), but there are other programs for the people and somesuch, like infrastructure spending and the like, which cost money too. Not to mention the loss of growth, a year and a half of global stagnation, loss of jobs as a result...

YOU SEE? Oh sure you saved the financial markets for 30 billion but if you widen your scope, you can say the Dems spend like drunken sailors and be correct and wrong all at the same time... This is why nobody runs on finance. I can say, with certainty, that the Wall St portion of the bailout will ultimately be a heckuva lot cheaper than $700Billion, and the taxpayer got pretty decent deals out of it too


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As for AIG and their bonus 'scandal', because somebody is bound to throw this out there, here's how it went down:

In most companies, bonuses are tied to performance though your job contract. AIG just posted a very bad quarter. The economy is bad - you're in the red. The government gives you 85 billion dollars. Well in that last quarter your books now reflect +85 billion dollars in loan agreements. You improved since last quarter BY A FREAKIN MILE AND A HALF. Thus, since it is bonus time, the bonuses reflect the 'performance'- and this is contract obligatory stuff. (This is how Goldman and the other banks could post a 'profit' that year - it's all phony baloney because everyone knows they got lines of funding from the gov't, but that's accounting and they have to report it).

Bernake apparently broke his telephone in anger after hearing about and responding to AIG's billion-dollar stunt.

In response, the gov't voted 358-60 or so to levy a 90% tax on bonuses on salaries greater than 250,000/y if your co. has more than $5B in TARP funding across the board. This pissed off Goldman, JP Morgan and others who had nothing to do with AIG's momentously stupid-and-yet-contractually-obligated announcement. High priced talent is... high priced talent for a reason. Many sought jobs in less restricted companies.

(Also, someone in the Wall St. times did the math and found, with the then-current medicaid tax, state, and local tax, someone who got a bonus and fit the bill would pay %101.68 of their bonus to the gov't. THAT'S PRETTY LOL. Plus the gov't interfered and broke previously agreed contracts, which is definitely nationalizing a bank[read: scares the shit out of investors], and worth a lawsuit if you got the balls to appear in daylight after you win.)

(Alsoalso, there is a law in Conneticuit called the Wage act, where AIG is incorporated. If you don't pay an employee their contractually obligated amount, you are required to pay twice that amount. You can see now how chaos might ensue )

It was later revealed that Jake DeSantis, an ex-XVPFinance at AIG, had been working on a salary of $1 since '08 in a resignation letter printed in the Times, as had many others, after the gov't pressured him into getting axed. 9 of 10 AIG execs gave their bonuses back, as did many other top execs that year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIG_bon...ts_controversy
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EDITEDIT: As of the end of December 2009, the gov't watchdog has officially started looking into TARP fraudulence (like bogus claims and such. It took a while to set the group up). They've got about 77 claims currently active, and have busted a few people already(It's mostly small banks and firms. There are scumbags on Wall St, but there are scumbags working in Dunkin Donuts. Point is most aren't actively seeking to screw people).

And on that note, I may have killed the thread with boredom. Sorry

[BaneTheBrawler]

If I'm not familiar with a specific race, I vote along party lines. That way, at least my overall philosophy gets some support. I really wish there were more parties in a realistic position to win, though. Both main parties are just too... absolutist. You're either on their side or you're the greatest scourge ever known to mankind, and it's stupid.

[Kuya]

lol

[Dezzimal]

I'd bet that almost everyone who votes along party lines can't even write a paragraph about their party's ideologies outside of abortion.

[Kuya]

Voting along party lines is often better than not, particularly if the party in question has similar beliefs as you. You would want to make it easier for that party to work if you agree with them more often than not.

Unfortunately, and apparently, you'd have to give democrats 100% control of both houses and the presidency to get them to pass anything revolutionary.

[Palin]

Unfortunately, and apparently, you'd have to give democrats 100% control of both houses and the presidency to get them to pass anything revolutionary.

They'd find a way to fuck it up.

[Kuya]

I think i asked this before, but, why do republicans/conservatives hate Pelosi so much?

[kuronosan]

Hi, have we met?

I'm the retard-naive-anarchist-dude, perhaps you're thinking of someone else? Someone who might not argue that the US government is evil? You know, in that Christian Bale, American Psycho sort of likable murderer in a nice suit kinda way.

Internet autism? Oh lordie. Nevermind. Joke didn't work.

[Desoo]

So, I skipped all the stuff between there and here, but the moveon.org ad makes me wish I didn't vote, specifically to cause those events to transpire, just because I hate moveon that much. Also, I lost all respect for Olivia Wilde and random-black-guy.

why do republicans/conservatives hate Pelosi so much?

I hate having to look at her.

[Kuya]

This visceral hate of Pelosi is genuinely an interesting subject to me. They just hate her so much, perhaps as much as some people hate Hillary.

[Atreides]

I think i asked this before, but, why do republicans/conservatives hate Pelosi so much?

because she's got a huge amount of power, being the one that basically crams everything down the throats of house republicans and gets stuff done or the administration. It's also probably partially because she's a woman, and partially because it's easy for them to paint her a "typical san francisco liberal out of touch politician", and partially because she doesn't fight back. But most of the politicians in washington respect her since she is the target of literally EVERY negative campaign ad and still she keeps on trucking like it doesn't bother her.

Interestingly, for the amount she's targeted by negative ads she's actually really well liked by the public too. Nationwide, Obama and the Democrats both poll around 40-45% but Nancy Pelosi has a 50% approval rating

also how the fuck is Washington/Colorado not decided yet?

[Acturus]

I think i asked this before, but, why do republicans/conservatives hate Pelosi so much?

She's unruly and a hyper-partisan hack, and the sheer arrogance she exudes on behalf of her party really does a lot to undermine any Democrat who tries to claim a willingness for bipartisanship.

*edit*

Apparently Florida isn't a total loss. Two amendments passed that improved redrawing of districts:

Amendment 5 Summary:

Legislative districts or districting plans may not be drawn to favor or disfavor an incumbent or political party. Districts shall not be drawn to deny racial or language minorities the equal opportunity to participate in the political process and elect representatives of their choice. Districts must be contiguous. Unless otherwise required, districts must be compact, as equal in population as feasible, and where feasible must make use of existing city, county and geographical boundaries.

Amendment 6 Summary:

Congressional districts or districting plans may not be drawn to favor or disfavor an incumbent or political party. Districts shall not be drawn to deny racial or language minorities the equal opportunity to participate in the political process and elect representatives of their choice. Districts must be contiguous. Unless otherwise required, districts must be compact, as equal in population as feasible, and where feasible must make use of existing city, county and geographical boundaries.

Of course, there's a long way to go from legislation to policy to implementation.

[Desoo]

because she's got a huge amount of power

Really this. It's the same reason the president catches a lot of flack for things that aren't exactly his fault.

In all honesty, while I was hoping she'd lose too, I'd much rather have seen Barbara Boxer lose her seat after the "call me senator" incident.

[Coren]

Actually, of the 700 billion TARP program, only $245 billion was lent out. $199,300 million of the TARP funding has been repaid(some with debt-to-equity deals), with about 66,000 million still outstanding (AIG, Chrysler, Ally Financial, some other pissant place... mostly AIG at 45 billion). The projected final cost of the TARP program, as of Oct 5, is roughly 30 billion... whenever AIG gets around to paying their portion back (plus interest. you didn't actually think this money was free, did you?)

Seriously. Dodging a Great Depression-style crash for 30 billion is a fuckin bargain, no matter how you look at it. Herbert Hoover had a similar program in the 30's with a final cost which, once inflated to 2010, was roughly the same cost. Only not nearly as effective, seeing as how the sitting gov't spent 4 years letting the economy turn into Jenkem before finally doing something about it.

See, Bush wasn't necessarily the problem, though the whole Iraq thing was definitely a huge part (the bailout is dirt cheap comparatively). It was the actions of the Fed under Greenspan to reduce o/n rates to 2% in 2004, in conjunction with a boom economy expanding into mortgage sec...

yadda yadda yadda. This is pointless, your comment is giving me nothing to work with. I should be less surprised that there are still plenty of people with stronger opinions than financial background. Sorry for quantitative data, it's a real buzz-killer.

The problem is the majority of america thinks obama enacted TARP, and that it cost us 700 billion (they think we haven't been repaid). Additionally, most people think obama raised taxes (he lowered them for 95%, and the other 5% stayed the same). Hell, obama actually reduced the deficit (bush's last fiscal budget, 2009, was around 1.4 trillion, obama's first budget, 2010, was 1.2 trillion), yet people think we're at record levels of spending.

You can yell reality in these peoples faces 24/7, and because limbaugh said the opposite on the radio, they go out and vote to cut off their nose to spite their face every time. It doesn't matter waht you do if the other side has the bigger megaphone and more money than god to run attack ads.

[darkepyon]

Not surprised the CA weed thing didn't pass.

We in Florida still don't know who our next governor is. We just love to keep 'em guessing!

I couldn't really get behind either one so I wound up voting independent. Though Rick Scott will probably win by an awfully slim margin.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

You are a goddamn idiot. Nothing to do with this topic, I thought I'd just mention.

I thought I'd just mention half the shit listed there is why the Dem's just got thrown out, not that Repub's will do much better.

[eunhye]

I think i asked this before, but, why do republicans/conservatives hate Pelosi so much?

She's a career politician. Nothing more. Nothing less. Just another politician who believes it's her duty to run the country with her ideas and not of that of what people paying her salary would like. http://www.gallup.com/poll/143885/pe...s-new-low.aspx

[Antithesis]

She's unruly and a hyper-partisan hack, and the sheer arrogance she exudes on behalf of her party really does a lot to undermine any Democrat who tries to claim a willingness for bipartisanship.

*edit*

Apparently Florida isn't a total loss. Two amendments passed that improved redrawing of districts:

Amendment 5 Summary:



Amendment 6 Summary:


Of course, there's a long way to go from legislation to policy to implementation.

I can't tell if Sink or Scott won yet. It seems like Scott is still leading.

If he wins, see you in London.

[Kuya]

She's a career politician. Nothing more. Nothing less. Just another politician who believes it's her duty to run the country with her ideas and not of that of what people paying her salary would like. http://www.gallup.com/poll/143885/pe...s-new-low.aspx

Is this that "liberal elitists imposing their values on the american people" trope that the right uses whenever the Supreme Court pulls a legal right for some marginalized group out of the ass of the Constitution?

[Atreides]

yes