Go vote

[Olo401]

LOL, Fuck this guy

If we can survive Bush we'll survive another Republican President in 2012

Last time I looked, David Axelrod wasn't the President.

[Rhinox]

People said the same thing in 2004. Trust me the sun will rise.

What I don't get is why gays continue to give him the benefit of the doubt. He administration has been as toxic to the gay community as bush. He fought against the DADT and DOMA ruling that it was unconstitutional. He is dragging his feet on a presidential executive order and won't ask congress to do something during the lame duck session. He is even on the record of saying that marriage is between a man and a woman.

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[aurik]

But see if we reduce taxes, people will have money to create jobs, which will increase taxes! Pay no attention to the fact that we are well below the ~60-70% rate required to give a negative slope on the Laffer curve.

Also there actually was a pre-proposal for deep budget cuts a few days ago. It will never in a million years get the 14/18 votes required to bring it out of committee and to the floor. http://www.examiner.com/political-bu...slash-and-burn

If anyone knows where to find a good, factual breakdown / chart of the proposed cuts please post. I can only find news articles which have a lot of fluff. It does propose the following:
- cut spending on SS / medicare
- cut defense spending, agriculture subsidies
- freezes federal wages for a few years, and cuts budgets for most govt agencies
- raise some taxes (particularly on gas), and eliminate tax rebates (particularly the mortgage interest credit, which is a terrible rebate anyway)

[Rhinox]

Last time I looked, David Axelrod wasn't the President.

David axelrod is the one that controls his message. Moreso then Gibbs considering he is in charge of getting him reelected and guess what the 2012 presidential election officially kicked off last Tuesday.


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[pohibaba]

I'm calling it right now: Marco Rubio is going to be the Republican Presidential candidate in 2012.

[Atreides]

People said the same thing in 2004. Trust me the sun will rise.

What I don't get is why gays continue to give him the benefit of the doubt. He administration has been as toxic to the gay community as bush. He fought against the DADT and DOMA ruling that it was unconstitutional. He is dragging his feet on a presidential executive order and won't ask congress to do something during the lame duck session. He is even on the record of saying that marriage is between a man and a woman.

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he's actually passed a lot of important pro-gay legislation already (hospital visitation/medical decisions, federal employee benefits). The sad thing is that gay rights in the US is slow and incremental, and even though he's been something of a letdown he's still made more progress on gay rights than any president in history.

As for the marriage thing, Obama actually gave a recent interview saying his views on gay marriage have "evolved" although he stopped short of saying he now supports it. I would say it's a fair bet that he'd be more supportive in a 2nd term if gay marriage makes it to the supreme court, but you are right in that it's disappointing that he only seems to oppose it when it damages him politically.

The anger of most gay voters comes from the fact that republicans are much, much worse on gay rights and democrats have long known this and exploited it. They know that most gay voters wouldn't be caught dead voting for a republican so the dems can still afford to make promises and then not really follow through and still avoid alienating the gay electorate.

I get what you're saying and I think most gay voters share that anger/frustration but for most of us it's still a matter of the lesser of two evils. I'd vote for someone who doesn't get a lot done for us rather than someone who is planning on passing legislation that is specifically and vehemently anti-gay.

I mean it's nice to look back, but I can tell you with absolute certainty that things would have been much worse with McCain as president, considering he's actually leading the charge against repealing DADT, and you can bet that all of the 2012 republican candidates would be just as bad. The only way things could have been better is if Hillary Clinton had gotten elected, but even then I'm still not so sure.

edit: and to clarify, when I said I didn't think the country could afford another republican president I meant in terms of the economy (and the environment)

[Rhinox]

McCain only went to the right because he was in danger of getting thrown out of office. We was on the record as being for the repeal of DADT before that. My point in all this is the problem with today's politics is we vote for the lesser of two evils. The problem with that is guess what no matter what your still voting for evil.



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[pohibaba]

I mean it's nice to look back, but I can tell you with absolute certainty that things would have been much worse with McCain as president, considering he's actually leading the charge against repealing DADT, and you can bet that all of the 2012 republican candidates would be just as bad. The only way things could have been better is if Hillary Clinton had gotten elected, but even then I'm still not so sure.

Vote for Gary Johnson in 2012.

[Olo401]

David axelrod is the one that controls his message. Moreso then Gibbs considering he is in charge of getting him reelected and guess what the 2012 presidential election officially kicked off last Tuesday.

Yeah, and now he's walking back what he said because he wasn't speaking for the President - he was speaking out of his ass.

[Rhinox]

Yeah, and now he's walking back what he said because he wasn't speaking for the President - he was speaking out of his ass.

Read between the lines and parse the language they're using.

I'll talk more about this when I get home



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[Olo401]

Read between the lines and parse the language they're using.

I'll talk more about this when I get home

You're missing the point - you can parse the language all you want, but it's still Axelrod speaking for Axelrod's sake, not the President's policy.

[Rhinox]

You're missing the point - you can parse the language all you want, but it's still Axelrod speaking for Axelrod's sake, not the President's policy.

Did you not read your own article? Even the white house acknowledged that axelrod isn't saying anything different then what the president and Robert Gibbs have said the past.


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[Atreides]

yeah, the whole idea of a 2 year compromise has been tossed around basically since the day after the election, so this is really nothing new.

Democrats know that they most likely can't get the votes required to extend it only for the lower/middle class, and they'd rather compromise and extend it for everyone than let taxes go up on everyone, because it'll make the president look bad instead of the republicans who blocked it. I think the problem most democrats have is that they're already capitulating before they even try, making democratic leaders look like spineless weiners who can't stand up for themselves. When Republicans are in power they have no problem pushing through any number of bills regardless of democratic opposition, and when they're in the minority they have no problem saying no, filibustering, stalling, defunding, and impeaching. I think most liberals wish that the president and the democrats would finally grow some balls, at least in their last few weeks controlling both houses of congress.

[aurik]

Permanent sub-250k and 2y 250k+ tax rate extensions is a wolf in sheep's clothing for repubs. Can you imagine in when they want to push tax cuts again in 2012, they will be pushing tax cuts exclusively for the wealthly. In an election season. There's no political way to pass that in 2012.

[Atreides]

the Dems really sold it wrong, I mean all we heard was from the republican camp saying "We shouldn't raise taxes on anyone in a recession" instead of the reality of what the tax cuts really meant. A few people said it would cost 700 billion, but no one really pointed out that the Republican plan gives a $375,000 break to someone making the average of 8 million dollars a year.

[aurik]

The dems should have pushed a temp/perm split plan from the beginning, and sell it as easing tax burden in the recession. Unfortunately they did not, and the Rs totally shotgunned that argument, but for the "all tax cuts permanent" plan.

Wonder what they're going to do about the estate tax. My guess is they'll extend that till 2012 as well. Retarded.

[Atreides]

I wonder if republicans are hoping the unemployment rate stays constant for 2 years so they make the retarded case that tax cuts on the rich stimulates job growth lol. I bet they try to torpedo obama's infrastructure/green jobs plan just to do their part to keep people out of work for the sake of political power, fucking dicks.

[Ksandra]

I'm tired of politics. Let's just get rid of them all and put Oprah in as our Queen. She's got enough to pay off most the debt and can buy us all a car while she's at it.

[Kuya]

They know that most gay voters wouldn't be caught dead voting for a republican

You mean the ones who call themselves gay?

[Kuya]

http://i56.tinypic.com/2el4ftj.jpg

Is this image accurate?