What exactly is justice?

**Kuya** · 2010-11-01 06:41

As in social justice, something that is just, something that is fair (is this even the same thing as justice?). Part of the idea behind certain forms of liberalism is that we should stand up for social justice, but what exactly does that mean, and how can we promote something when we're not really sure of the definition? How do we define it?

The ever useful RSA helps us start out here. This guy says that humansly have an innate understanding of what is fair, however vague that idea may be, but that the definition of this can vary by person, but what he seems to be getting at is that everyone has an idea on what is fair. So then according to this, what is fair and what is jutice?

**Krye** · 2010-11-01 06:47

Spoiler: show

**Qalbert** · 2010-11-01 06:56

Originally Posted by Derock

first thing I thought of

**TheShadyMan** · 2010-11-01 12:22

Justice is when you go to McDonald's and they ask what you want to drink, and you say "No soda, I want justice."

**Rocl** · 2010-11-01 12:35

Kira

**Ksandra** · 2010-11-01 12:38

Originally Posted by Derock

that was awesome

**#686578** · 2010-11-01 12:43

a : the maintenance or administration of what is just especially by the impartial adjustment of conflicting claims or the assignment of merited rewards or punishments

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/justice

**Shiroikage** · 2010-11-01 12:48

justice is when bad things happen to people who do things i disapprove of

**Lucienne** · 2010-11-01 13:37

I don't think it is possible to find a completely objective definition of either fairness or justice. The way I understand it, the terms justice and fairness do not necessarily overlap.

There is a certain minimal level of materialistic access that all beings should be entitled to, regardless how deserving they are - that is justice. It might not necessarily be fair. When that is provided, what is left should be devided based on one's efforts - that is fairness.

That's how I understood it anyway.

**quannum** · 2010-11-01 13:39

justice is getting what you deserve

**Lucienne** · 2010-11-01 13:42

I think it's really hard to decide what one deserves though. Does a sick child born to poor parents deserve health care even though they can't afford it? And if so, is it fair that rich parents of a healthy child are taxed to pay for it?

**Mertron** · 2010-11-01 14:27

**Mertron** · 2010-11-01 14:27

SEEKING NO TRUTH
WINNING IS ALL
FIND IT SO GRIM SO TRUE SO REALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

**quannum** · 2010-11-01 14:35

yea determining what someone deserves is the hard part, it's subjective and highly context sensitive. the hope is that your culture's just/unjust demarcation meshes with your own.

**Alleya** · 2010-11-01 15:02

In practice, the definition of justice is the definition understood by the people who have the power to mete out punishment. Finding a philosophically consistent and logically cohesive system of justice is a great academic exercise, because feminism taught us that simply getting ideas into the public consciousness is how you get change etc, but it's ultimately just an exercise. The people with the guns and the mandate decide what justice is.

This is why if you don't vote you're a goddamned idiot.

**isladar** · 2010-11-01 15:08

Originally Posted by Kuya

The ever useful RSA helps us start out here. This guy says that humansly have an innate understanding of what is fair, however vague that idea may be, but that the definition of this can vary by person, but what he seems to be getting at is that everyone has an idea on what is fair. So then according to this, what is fair and what is jutice?

Kuya, one of my profs is part of a research project about something related to this; it's a huge cross-cultural study. I don't know that you can read the full article online but I at least found the abstract. "Markets, Religion, Community Size, and the Evolution of Fairness and Punishment". That's like six General Discussion threads all in one.

**Lucienne** · 2010-11-01 15:08

I like your point. Justice is by no means static. Is fairness though?

**LinktheDeme** · 2010-11-01 15:14

I call my penis, justice.

**quannum** · 2010-11-01 15:40

fairness is even trickier. fairness means equal opportunity (in my head) but reality isn't fair. some sort of force (unfair) must be used to make things fair .. if that's what a culture wants.

edit: but is fairness static? i believe so, as long as access/opportunity to the particular resource can be measured empirically.
if not, no.

**#686578** · 2010-11-01 15:57

a : marked by impartiality and honesty : free from self-interest, prejudice, or favoritism <a very fair person to do business with>

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fair

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