Protest in London over tuition increases

[Elcura]

The year I went into uni was the year they upped the price from 1.2k a year to 3k a year. People raged about that, but not to this degree.

Now it's going up to 9k a year, that shit is ridiculous. And I dunno what student loans you got, but the majority of my loans went into tuition and accomodation. Even then I was struggling to eat properly. Now that I've finished, I got the loans companies at my back hounding me for the £15k or so I owe them. That has me a little worried, but I'll be able to pay that off in a realistic time unless I decide to invest heavily on hookers and blow.

But having to pay £30k+ for tuition and accomodation is down right criminal, I'd be rioting as well if I was in London (cause riots are fun!)

[Vuitton]

But having to pay £30k+ for tuition and accomodation is down right criminal, I'd be rioting as well if I was in London (cause riots are fun!)

Accomodation? You pay rent whether you're in school or not. I don't think rent should be taken into account as part of the cost of attending university. It is a cost of living life.

30K/year for tuition at a public university is criminal. 30K/year for public university tuition + cost of rent = your rent is too high. If rent is 700/mo x 12/mo then 8400. 8400 rent + 9000 tuition = 17,400. But seeing as rent is something you would be forced to pay whether you were a student or not, then I guess I am confused as why its being taken into account at all.

scholarships
grants
part-time job
full-time job

so many ways to pay for things.

[aurik]

Not to mention loans, which are a perfectly acceptable way to pay for higher education. Theoretically your investment in education should enable you to earn a wage that will easily cover loans, interest, and pocket some for yourself as well. If this isn't the case, maybe higher education isn't right for you.

[Elcura]

Accomodation? You pay rent whether you're in school or not. I don't think rent should be taken into account as part of the cost of attending university. It is a cost of living life.

30K/year for tuition at a public university is criminal. 30K/year for public university tuition + cost of rent = your rent is too high. If rent is 700/mo x 12/mo then 8400. 8400 rent + 9000 tuition = 17,400. But seeing as rent is something you would be forced to pay whether you were a student or not, then I guess I am confused as why its being taken into account at all.

scholarships
grants
part-time job
full-time job

so many ways to pay for things.

Some loan companies will give you enough for tuition, but you don't have to use the rest for accomodation. I got about 2-3k a term, 1-1.5k for tuition, and about 1.5k for anything else. Usually 1.5k was enough to cover that term's accomodation and still have something left over. The dummies spent it all on alcohol or warhammer figures, while most used it to cover rent.

You have to know, there was a suprising lack in student loans companies. It's not like you could shop around for the best deal, most did the same thing with different wording anyway.

If they didn't cover rent, you'd have to pay accomodation somehow, either by a job (which might hurt your ability to perform in class) or another loan. Or rich parents. So with that in mind, most companies gave you enough money generally to cover rent for 3-4 months. The amount you had left over depended on how much rent was. The most expensive was around £80/w (expensive, private halls), while most normal lets were around £40-60/w.

So no, accomodation doesn't have to be a part of the equation, but for just about everyone I know, it was.

[Vuitton]

Not to mention loans, which are a perfectly acceptable way to pay for higher education. Theoretically your investment in education should enable you to earn a wage that will easily cover loans, interest, and pocket some for yourself as well. If this isn't the case, maybe higher education isn't right for you.

I think the problem is that many people who are going to university have not yet found an applicable reason for actually going to university, so when (if) they graduate, they don't know what they're aiming for in the job market. The shitty economy not helping things either of course (tough competition to get hired, but better success with your degree than without).

Probably shouldn't be pursuing a degree until you figure out what you want to pursue with that degree in hand after you get it. Because if you don't have a plan you'll be standing there after graduation with your degree in hand and a student loan bill in the other hand, but no concrete plans for paying it off.

"I guess I'll get a job." is not a concrete plan. "I'll pursue a career in ________." would be a good start. Chances are you'll follow that up with "I'll need to pursue _______ post-graudate / graduate school education to get the experience I need to enter the industry I am interested in."

[Vuitton]

Some loan companies will give you enough for tuition, but you don't have to use the rest for accomodation. I got about 2-3k a term, 1-1.5k for tuition, and about 1.5k for anything else. Usually 1.5k was enough to cover that term's accomodation and still have something left over. The dummies spent it all on alcohol or warhammer figures, while most used it to cover rent.

You have to know, there was a suprising lack in student loans companies. It's not like you could shop around for the best deal, most did the same thing with different wording anyway.

If they didn't cover rent, you'd have to pay accomodation somehow, either by a job (which might hurt your ability to perform in class) or another loan. Or rich parents. So with that in mind, most companies gave you enough money generally to cover rent for 3-4 months. The amount you had left over depended on how much rent was. The most expensive was around £80/w (expensive, private halls), while most normal lets were around £40-60/w.

So no, accomodation doesn't have to be a part of the equation, but for just about everyone I know, it was.

Student loans operate differently across the atlantic, I guess. Here in the States student loans are all federally regulated (unless you get private loans, which is a big no no). The goverment states the maximum you can receive in loans per year and overall, and they set the interest rate. You can choose to accept the maximum amount every year or enough just to cover tuition. This means you don't have to "shop around" because all the loans are the same.

Private loans here in the states... Hmm. I am not sure why anyone would choose to get those rather than student loans. I guess if they've been denied by the government, they would have no recourse but to pursue private loans. But you'll get financially raped if you take them.

[The Stig]

It sucks that these Britains are being forced to enter a similar situation, but its not the end of the world for them. They can still go to school. It will just cost them a little more in student loans, and they might have to also get a part or full time job (which is not a bad thing at all, for many reasons).

Long post here, sorry, but I want to explain of the current situations:

$35k is still incredibly insignificant, @ £22000 for the duration. And the fact the loan can cover the hiked up fee AND books, is incredibly good. Loans in the UK won't cover any of that. What you need to fork out on top is nothing, and some can be done without (cell phone + data plan, cable internet, my new PC, alcohol, dates). You can go pay as you go for your phone, go to the university premisies for internet (unreasonable but some do), PC is debatable if you need raw power for your projects, but some people don't even have PCs and can make do with the university ones, alcohol is optional, and you can choose to stay single.

Living costs are still significantly lower in the west in terms of food.

What we're talking about here is basically, assuming a 4 year course:

$58,000 for the tuition fee alone
Assume $130 a week for your living place (£80, roughly average, area dependant) and most landlords will charge you 10 months. So...

$58000 + $20800 (5200 x 4) = $78800
Maximum loan is £3375 in 2012 according to the UK Gov website ($5400)
NOTE: Your loan is assessed by your household income. So if you're total household earns over a specific bracket, you get none.

Minimum wage here (and because you're a student, that's probably what they'll give you) is currently £4.92/hour for the 18-20 bracket, and £5.93 for the 21+

Social Costs, I don't drink, but pints I've noticed seem to float at £3+, getting into clubs usually cost £5, "doing things with your mates" can float to just about anywhere, and if you're very active, this adds up REALLY quick.

Other misc costs like bills and food have not been included yet.

I'm not an economist or anything, but I don't think they'll up the loan limit anytime soon, or everything will just fall over.

The situation is already bad given the majority British people's inability to save money, and now it's basically gone hard mode.

I have to admit if I was in the situation now, I entered uni with about £5000 savings since I worked my ass off, but I really see no way around this. My parents won't be able to pay it.

*

Wop's anger is directed towards how when university fees were £1150/year whereas Wop's fee would've been £9000 for sure, as he's classed as an overseas (international) student. I'll skip the class argument/discussion

EDIT:

Sorry man replies were lumped in, I want to address this:

Accomodation? You pay rent whether you're in school or not. I don't think rent should be taken into account as part of the cost of attending university. It is a cost of living life.

Most kids/teenagers will be living at home. Only when they move out to a university where it's more feasible to rent somewhere than to travel there would they first start paying rent.

[Vuitton]

What is the maximum student loan amount for a single year in the UK? Here in the US it is $12,500 (5000 subsidized, 7500 unsubsidized). This is enough for public university in the student's state, and for rent and living allowances if the student has a roommate to share the bills with.

[Elcura]

fees were £1150/year

Still mad I missed this by a few weeks. If I was born before september, I would have been 1 year ahead, and had gotten those sweet sweet fees.

Edit: In loans you can get about £9-12k a year, depending on location and family income. I dunno if that's the max (we go by terms, so each term you get a max of 3k or so, and there are 3 terms per year), but it's about what everyone around me got.

[The Stig]

What is the maximum student loan amount for a single year in the UK? Here in the US it is $12,500 (5000 subsidized, 7500 unsubsidized). This is enough for public university in the student's state, and for rent and living allowances if the student has a roommate to share the bills with.

I addressed it in my first quote (I thought I'd highlight it by dumping it into a quote of the major factors. Tuition fee, rent and available loan) :

Maximum loan is £3375 in 2012 according to the UK Gov website ($5400)

v The rest of it below:

4 year course calculation:

$58,000 for the tuition fee alone
Assume $130 a week for your living place (£80, roughly average, area dependant) and most landlords will charge you 10 months. So...

$58000 + $20800 (5200 x 4) = $78800
Maximum loan is £3375 in 2012 according to the UK Gov website ($5400)

NOTE: Your loan is assessed by your household income. So if you're total household earns over a specific bracket, you get none.

EDIT:

In loans you can get about £9-12k a year, depending on location and family income. I dunno if that's the max (we go by terms, so each term you get a max of 3k or so, and there are 3 terms per year), but it's about what everyone around me got.

What loan was this? Wow! £3000/term?! Link me! I was going via http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Educatio...time/DG_171542

[XanthePandy]

What is the maximum student loan amount for a single year in the UK? Here in the US it is $12,500 (5000 subsidized, 7500 unsubsidized). This is enough for public university in the student's state, and for rent and living allowances if the student has a roommate to share the bills with.

The tuition loans (£3,290) at the moment cover the exact tuition amount. Maintenance loan which is about £3,600 if you're not eligible for grants, is used for accommodation, food, books, travel etc. My accommodation is a lot higher than most peoples being about £4,700 but including crappy food for 2 meals a day. This is only for a 30 week lease too. It's also pretty uncommon to share rooms here, too.

[Vuitton]

So, it looks like the infrastructure is in place to help students cover the costs of tuition and then some at a comparable level to the US. Even after the increased tuition.

I mean, I'd be upset as well if my tuition was increased (well, it is every year actually but not hugely). It just seems like things are blown out of proportion. I don't see higher education being moved financially out of reach of anyone if the loans are still there to cover it. Which is what the media keeps showing protestors stating.

[The Stig]

My bad, I'm just reading up on this maintenance loan.... seems to be capped at £3000/year. I was aware of such a "gift" for the poorest (no offence intended) of students, but I cannot find this £3k/term maint. loan Elcura speaks of, however according to http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Educatio...time/DG_171557 it does not need to be paid back?

This is relevant to my interests as I have a sister starting university in 2012 and my parents are worried about how to provide.

[Elcura]

I totally forgot about maintenence loans, mostly because it was the same company giving those out and all the payments into my account were as one.

Basically, the company gives you tuition fee and maintenence loan. Every term (Sep-Dec, Dec-April, April-July) you get enough to cover your tuiton (about 1.3k), and enough to cover living expenses (about the same, if not a little more). So effectively, each term you get about 3k. But you have to pay back the two loans as one, so even though I technically owe 9-10k in tuition, I have to pay more because the maintenence loan was included with it.

Though if I remember correctly, the maintenence loan is optional.

Edit: that also looks like a grant and not a loan, I think you have the option of both, but reading that looks like if you get the grant, your loan could be reduced.

[Shiroikage]

Wat.
You're not even in the UK. The unemployment rate here is at record high.

There are too many graduates in the UK now chasing so few jobs.
Statistics are like 16-18 people going after 1 role.

By implementing £9k a year school fees, we weed out the lower class so that they can stick to their subordinate jobs.

Sounds good to me.

wop i am going to fuck your face

[Wintermute]

So for anyone who cares the Vote Passed and the protesters didn't take it all too well.

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/image...trallondon.jpg
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11962415

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11954333

From the Beeb

The coalition government has won the vote to raise tuition fees in England to up to £9,000 per year - amid violent protests in Westminster.

In angry scenes, protesters are battling with police and attacking buildings, including the Treasury and the Supreme Court.

A car containing Prince Charles and Camilla has been attacked, with reports of a cracked window. Both are unharmed.

Police say eight officers were hurt in clashes. They have made nine arrests.

The attack on the car carrying the royal couple is reported to have involved paint being thrown and a cracked window.

Protests have spread to the West End with demonstrators in Oxford Street.

Shops in Oxford Street have been attacked, and I'm amazed they managed to do what they did to the car carrying Prince whosits and whatsherface.


Live feed if you're so inclined: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11566509

Some of the tweets on the live feed are great.
"Nick Clegg didn't stick to his plan. Why should the protesters stick to theirs?"

[Mistress Stowastiq]

Interesting that his son is an activist.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/...udent-protests

http://i866.photobucket.com/albums/a...ie-Gilmour.jpg


Pink Floyd guitarist son Charlie Gilmour held over student protests

Charlie Gilmour arrested on suspicion of violent disorder and attempted criminal damage in student tuition fees protests.
* Adam Gabbatt
* guardian.co.uk, Sunday 12 December 2010 15.33 GMT

Charlie Gilmour Charlie Gilmour, the son of Pink Floyd guitarist David Gilmour, during student protests. Photograph: Matt Dunham/AP

Charlie Gilmour, the son of Pink Floyd guitarist Dave Gilmour, was arrested today on suspicion of violent disorder and attempted criminal damage following his involvement in the student protests in central London on Thursday.

Gilmour, 21, was seen swinging from a Union flag attached to the Cenotaph war memorial as he took part in a march demonstrating against increases in tuition fees. He later apologised for the "terrible insult", saying he had been "caught up in the spirit of the moment".

"On the morning of Sunday 12 December, a 21-year-old man was arrested at his home address in Sussex," said a spokesman for the Metropolitan police. "He was arrested by officers from Operation Malone on suspicion of violent disorder, and attempted criminal damage of the Union flag on the Cenotaph on 9 December. He was taken to a Sussex police station where he has been further arrested on suspicion of theft."

Gilmour, who remains in custody at the police station, is the 35th person to have been arrested following involvement in Thursday's protest. Some 176 people have been arrested in the four protests so far.

Earlier police released pictures of 14 people wanted in connection with committing violent offences during the tuition fee protests last Thursday.

The demonstration against a proposed £9,000 rise in university fees sparked violent exchanges between police and protesters after MPs voted in favour of the move.

Police said they had reviewed hours of CCTV footage to identify people responsible for offences committed during the protest, in which some police officers were attacked and buildings, including the Treasury, were vandalised.

Detective Chief Superintendent Matthew Horne, head of the police investigation, said: "We want the public to help us identify these people who may have been involved in violent disorder, attacking police officers and smashing buildings, shops and windows. The vast majority of the people we are seeking are suspected of committing serious offences of violent disorder and criminal damage."

[Unreal]

At uni I currently get my £3225 tuition fee paid for through the student loan, but the maintenance loan is a lot more then to be desired. I get £1025 every term and my rent is £980 a term.
The problem with the current system is that they take into account your parents income (my parents isnt great £51,000 I beleive) unless you are either over 25 have lived independently for atleast 3 years or a parent is dead, divorced, whatever. I "luckily" fall into the middle of two of these so I get diddily squat! The kicker is that the limit for determining grant or loan is £50,000 currently and that extra £1000 reduces my potential loan from student loans by a third.

Not to mention they took my mothers overtime into account which isnt even guarenteed to be constant lol. Realistically unless you flat share in very cheap accomodation your are not gonna be able to even come close to making enough and unless the uni has a good accomodation department your screwed to find anywhere especially if your nearest town is anti student like mine.

I currently have two jobs and still have no money and I hardly do anything apart from kayak and rock climbing...which in hindsight are actually quite expensive pursuits lol.

I will easily rack up atleast £20,000 by the time I finish my honours and thats with very little support from student loans or my parents (which I dont expect or ask for anyway), it will easily triple for anyone going to uni after the changes.

But I guess money is probably the last thing you should worry about considering potentially what your getting back not to mention you pay back currently 5% of your wages if your earning above £15,000. I think the threshold is raising to £21,000 after the change. Besides if you havent paid it back within 15 years the remainder is wiped.

[The Stig]

But I guess money is probably the last thing you should worry about considering potentially what your getting back not to mention you pay back currently 5% of your wages if your earning above £15,000. I think the threshold is raising to £21,000 after the change. Besides if you havent paid it back within 15 years the remainder is wiped.

I can't find any info on this so far, but the bolded part, isn't this going to have some knock on effect sometime in the future .. ?!

[sephir]

I feel kind of lucky. I'm paying only $3000 per semester in tuition. So $6000 a year. I couldn't imagine having to pay 9000 pounds a year, thats just crazy.