Washington (State) Bans Alcoholic Energy Drinks

[Saga]

One Four Loko is equivalent to six beers, and a can costs 3 dollars. It's so easy for kids to get fucked out of their mind on that stuff, and as an RD I hope everywhere bans the shit out of this, we've had two transports to the hospital for students drinking themselves half to death off these things this semester alone. Get it out of here.

[Osiris]

A few days ago I drank 3 of these, two coronas, and random people at the bar were randomly giving me patron shots (I have no idea why)
I know I got home safely and blacked out, but I can't really remember what exactly happened. Apparently I'm obsessive-compulsive enough while drunk to still perfectly fold and hang my clothing, though.

[Dontkare]

Yes, it's your own fucking fault for not being able to read, but it doesn't inhibit the fact that there shouldn't be a drink of this caliber in the first place.

I only agree with this statement halfway, but saying that there shouldn't be a drink this strong is wrong. Ever had a good barleywine?

[Saga]

I only agree with this statement halfway, but saying that there shouldn't be a drink this strong is wrong. Ever had a good barleywine?

Four Loko's ONLY purpose is for college students to get completely obliterated off of it, Four Loko knows that, and Four Loko promotes it. And shockingly, college students are stupid when it comes to alcohol. People were getting alcohol poisoning before Four Loko was introduced. And there were the occasional deaths before Four Loko, but now a much greater number people are dying from it because of a binge drinking lifestyle that Four Loko doesn't hesitate to promote. In addition to ALL the other shit out there, alcohol-wise, that is already causing issues and occasional deaths for students, why would you want an additional option for people to choose, where the effects are so much worse than anything else out there?

There shouldn't be a drink this strong, because it's marketed toward binge drinking college students and the company doesn't give a shit about what it promotes or to who. No college student drinks barleywine or brings it to parties or has ever heard about it, so your example is really, really stupid.

It's about limiting the options and the ways that people can harm themselves or others. In addition to the cheap price and the high alcohol content, the caffeine in one Four Loko is equivalent to about five cups of coffee. The caffeine masks the effects of how drunk you are. It's mixing an upper and a downer. So we have an alcoholic drink causing deaths and blackouts, that costs next to nothing, that masks the effects of the alcohol, and that promotes an already dangerous lifestyle most students don't care about changing. That sounds fucking horrible, and I hope they ban it in the other 49 states.

And can people just take a minute and really think about the severity of this? Like the guy two posts above. First, I think he's bullshitting about how much he had to drink, or else he weights 300 pounds, but just imagine that for a second: you're out drinking, people are buying you shots and you're slamming down drinks like it's nothing, you're laughing with your friends. You get home, drunkenly fold some laundry, pass out, then die in your sleep from alcohol poisoning. "Yeah but that poster didn't die." No, but that's a reality for these people that are dead. And for their friends. It's disgusting how desensitized we are to death. Just because it didn't happen to anyone here doesn't mean it doesn't happen elsewhere.

It's just such a stupid way to die. It's not the student's fault for being irresponsible, it's Four Loko's fault for shoving in their naive, binge-drinking face.

[eunhye]

It's just such a stupid way to die. It's not the student's fault for being irresponsible, it's Four Loko's fault for shoving in their naive, binge-drinking face.

Please clarify something. Since when did peer pressure become the faults of advertisement agencies?

[Saga]

Please clarify something. Since when did peer pressure become the faults of advertisement agencies?

Yes, ignore the rest of my post and just focus on one line.

College students aren't binge drinking because all their friends are pressuring them to, they're doing it because it's become the norm. When you're 18, 19, 20 years old, the mentality isn't, "I'm going to have a relaxing night, enjoy my drinks and have a little fun," it's, "oh shit it's Thirsty Thursday! dude it's Wasted Wednesday! oh man it's Tanked Tuesday, let's get completely obliterated!!" Are they still "pressured" by the norm? To an extent, I think, but they don't see it that way. You're "supposed" to go to college, get ripped every night, fuck a bunch of girls, and be on your merry way. Students aren't thinking, "jeez, should I do this? that sounds dangerous." They're thinking, "that sounds fucking awesome, count me in."

Four Loko comes along and says, "hey, you know that dangerous lifestyle you're all living? where you make stupid decisions and think it's cool to blackout? Here, we created a drink to expedite that process." Students are reaching for Four Loko more now, not fifths of Rubinoff, because it's cheaper and it gets them more fucked up. Maybe Four Loko isn't directly responsible for a student making the choice to drink one, but they're making the choice easier and shoving it in anyone's face who will pay attention.

Look at all the other alcohol advertising out there. J&B. Dewar's. Look at the 1800 Tequila commercial. It's a guy in a nice suit with a fancy-looking bottle of 1800 kicking his feet up on the table and relaxing. It's all marketed towards adults.

Now do an image search for Four Loko and check out some of the advertising. Look at the design on the can. Oh there's fire!! And a kinda-camo motif goin on!! Whoa a huge "11% ALCOHOL" label!! That's like, so much alcohol!!

There's a binge drinking problem. It existed before Four Loko. Four Loko is promoting binge drinking. Again, it's about limiting the options and the ways that people can harm themselves or others. Why is it wrong to eliminate something that gives students another, cheaper, more alcohol-efficient option than they already have?

[Pirian]

I only agree with this statement halfway, but saying that there shouldn't be a drink this strong is wrong. Ever had a good barleywine?

Love barleywines, and the average strength of the beer I drink is probably right around 9-10%, but nobody is putting those back like kids are putting back these things. You're also never going to be paying less than $6 for a bottle, and to be honest I can't remember ever spending less than 15 for a barleywine, whereas these drinks are under 3 dollars.

Anheuser Busch was one of the first companies, if not the first, to actually release a drink that combined a high-stimulant content with a high-alcohol content. It was also the first to pull their item from the market because of just how bad it really is.

I had wrote up a whole thing for this, but I didn't even scroll down and see Saga pretty much covered everything already

[archibaldcrane]

I think it's funny that a beverage should be banned to prevent people who are already banned from drinking it from drinking it.

[Saga]

I think it's funny that a beverage should be banned to prevent people who are already banned from drinking it from drinking it.

Again, archi: why would you want an additional option available for students, where the effects are so much worse than anything else out there?

Should they make automatic weapons legal now because people are dying from handguns anyway? What's the big deal, right?

College students will get their hands on anything. Why is it a bad thing to limit the amount of harmful, potentially fatal things they can get their hands on?

[Pirian]

I think it's funny that a beverage should be banned to prevent people who are already banned from drinking it from drinking it.

Yeah, I foresee a future where people are going to their dealer "Yo, I got what you need! This 4loko shit is the BOMB!" lol

Such is the way when these items are directly marketed to the underage audience though

[eunhye]

I have no sympathy for young adults between the ages of 18-25 knowingly caving into peer pressure by their friends to engage in an activity that millions of people are doing more responsibly. It just sounds like a cop out to blame it on the Four Locos guys because they are inherently the ones forcing you to go out and buy their products and get wasted until you've passed out. College kids don't know any better would be your response? Well then it's time mommy & daddy remove the purse strings.

[archibaldcrane]

Again, archi: why would you want an additional option available for students, where the effects are so much worse than anything else out there?

The effects are no worse than any other 12% ABV beverage of a similar quantity.

[ferigor]

The effects are no worse than any other 12% ABV beverage of a similar quantity.

What? Haven't you been reading? 1 4Loko is like 6 beers and 5 cups of coffee!!!!

[Alleya]

Mixing drugs that have opposing effects? Why would that do anything?! Must be just like taking one or the other.

The caffeine gives you an alert drunk. You don't feel as drunk as you are, and you get people who think they're alert enough to do XYZ (like driving) when they are absolutely not, you get people drinking more than they might otherwise because they can't tell that they're reaching a limit. You WANT your drunks to get sleepy and go to bed, not be out running around thinking they're ok. Saying it's no different than just alcohol is plain stupid, mang, get a grip.

Is there a reason to ban it? Eh, maybe. You can just pour some redbull into your drink, or coffee, or whatever, and get the same effects more or less, if you're willing to drink that much extra stuff. I think it's irresponsible to manufacture something that only exists to get you to drink more of it than you should, and much as it pains me to say it I think it is actually unreasonable to expect the average person to actually know what the stuff is doing to their body. The surgeon general warnings on alcoholic beverages are hilariously understated and ambiguous, and they don't have to tell you about the effects any additives (like caffeine) in their drinks could have on you. It's a public health hazard, frankly, so I can see why the government would feel the need to act with the only real power that they have. Will it accomplish anything? Harder to say. If people were drinking these things specifically because of the caffeine content and not just because it was the thing to do, then they'll find other ways. All in all it will probably be a net positive from the government's viewpoint, fewer people will be getting sick or injured off the stuff.

[Heavencloud]

I strongly agree with the choice to ban this simply because:

1) my (alcoholic-ish) brother says that it's bad, and if an alcoholic says a drink fucks you up too bad, then it's gotta be bad.

and

2) I'm applying to work in an emergency department, and I know people who work in the job that I'm going to be going into (ER Scribe), and they say +80% of the cases deal with alcohol and people doing stupid shit like they do with drinks like 4loko. I'd rather help treat people who aren't stupid fucks that didn't know their limit.

[archibaldcrane]

Again, this beverage will not negatively affect your health moreso than a COMPARABLE-SIZED amount of any other 12% ABV drink.

If you're drinking more of it than another alcoholic drink of similar ABV, then yes you'll get drunker. The caffeine in it DOESN'T ACTUALLY HURT YOU though.

"I didn't know how drunk I was because of the caffeine" is simply a copout being seized upon to fuel hysteria - to make this into a "media story" beyond just "binge drinkers binge drink". College kids getting blacked-out drunk, getting alcohol poisoning, having to go to the ER, and occasionally dying from alcohol overdose are nothing new. These kids aren't getting "tricked" into drinking too much - that's their fucking goal from the outset. Read the article, it says they're even mixing this 12% ABV drink with hard liquor.

They're trying to get super fucked up and they're succeeding admirably.

Anyone know the wording of the Washington law? How do they specifically target Four Loko?

[Alleya]

Again, this beverage will not negatively affect your health moreso than a COMPARABLE-SIZED amount of any other 12% ABV drink.

If you're drinking more of it than another alcoholic drink of similar ABV, then yes you'll get drunker. The caffeine in it DOESN'T ACTUALLY HURT YOU though.

Yes, you are technically correct, but you're missing the point. The caffeine DOES affect your perception of the alcohol's effects. You are mixing a stimulant with a sedative. This LEADS TO people drinking more of the stuff than they might otherwise because their perception is changed. "I'm not feeling the buzz I want to => I'll drink more!" That is why this product is irresponsible, shady, and dangerous. People will drink more of it than they should BECAUSE of what's mixed into it. Hence the ban.

inb4 PERSONAL RESPANZIBILITEH, as if alcohol does not impair judgment.

[archibaldcrane]

If there wasn't a long and storied history of hundreds of other alcoholic drinks that were mixed with caffeinated drinks all the time, this whole caffeine argument might actually seem interesting.

I still don't get why people are convinced Four Loko is dangerous and worthy of a ban and Redbull+Vodka isn't.

[Alleya]

Because how are you going to regulate what people mix their alcohol with? The government is targeting a marketed product for reasons I already speculated about. That is a BIG difference from what people do on their own time.

[archibaldcrane]

Because how are you going to regulate what people mix their alcohol with? The government is targeting a marketed product for reasons I already speculated about. That is a BIG difference from what people do on their own time.

Do you think bars should be allowed to mix Redbull and Vodka and serve it to people?