US diplomatic cables to be dropped by wikileaks; US doing pre-emptive damage control

[Kuya]

It sounds like you're implying that being wrong about something in the past prevents you from ever being right about it.

The fact is that this is the sort of thing that only has to happen once, no matter how many times it was warned against.

Stupidity. If all a group of people have to do is uncritically tow to the government's claims then they are right about nothing.

Explain precisely how it is that these leaks will lead to some sort of specific damage and what the likelihood and plausibility of it is. Because if you can't do this, then you don't really know anything, and you're nothing but a parrot.

[Cyn]

Stupidity. If all a group of people have to do is uncritically tow to the government's claims then they are right about nothing.

Explain precisely how it is that these leaks will lead to some sort of specific damage and what the likelihood and plausibility of it is. Because if you can't do this, then you don't really know anything, and you're nothing but a parrot.

I never said that it was likely or plausible, merely that if anyone can ever provide substantial evidence that a leak caused the loss of a US citizen's life the number of times people were wrong about it will not matter.

Again, I don't necessarily believe that the information will result in violence against the US, but IF it did even once the US would start taking a much more direct approach dealing with it.

[Ohemgee]

Long live 88.80.13.160

Amazon's policy violation is full of shit
PayPal is full of shit.
And everyone covering this is full of shit.

I am full of shit, going to poop now.

[aurik]

The Espionage Act, aside from having a shaky constitutional basis, is not international law.

Furthermore, Bin Laden was complicit (and arguably an architect / funder) of illegal acts perpetrated both on American soil and against American property and persons abroad. In addition to the whole running a terrorist organization thing.

So, unless, of course, you suddenly are on-board with the Iranian fatwa against Salman Rushdie, you should probably back off on this whole "illegal" thing.

[archibaldcrane]

The arrest warrant isn't for a trial or anything it's so they can have him in some sort of custody and then immediately extradite him to the US via some really shady practices

ftfy

[Kuya]

I never said that it was likely or plausible, merely that if anyone can ever provide substantial evidence that a leak caused the loss of a US citizen's life the number of times people were wrong about it will not matter.

Again, I don't necessarily believe that the information will result in violence against the US, but IF it did even once the US would start taking a much more direct approach dealing with it.

Okay, but independently of whether any damage comes to any person or facility directly because of the leaks, unless the people claiming said damage will happen, can specify why in any rigorous way, beyond a mere lazy statement that "these leaks harm US National security", then they are wrong on all counts even if damage does happen. This is because their statement was born on a presumption and not on any actionable knowledge. They did not know anything. They merely opened their mouths. That's my point.

As for this leak we're talking about right now. I can see how it could be used as a checklist of things to attack, but the leak does not facilitate any action. Meaning, it provides not methods for attack, a way to bypass security. A lot of the places were obvious, and some indicate the very broad nature of what the US defines as its national interest (there's an anti-venom factory in that list).

[aurik]

The US is very afraid of snakes. Particularly on planes.

[archibaldcrane]

Wouldn't it really be the activity exposed in the leaks that caused the damage, not the leak itself?

Like, if a UN crusader blew up an embassy in protest of the US spying at the UN (weird example but just go with me here) - is the problem that he found out that we're spying at the UN, or that WE'RE SPYING AT THE UN?

[Kuya]

Perhaps the US gained knowledge of an impending terrorist snake attack, and so the US took measures to secure an anti-venom factory due to national security interests.

[Cyn]

Wouldn't it really be the activity exposed in the leaks that caused the damage, not the leak itself?

Like, if a UN crusader blew up an embassy in protest of the US spying at the UN (weird example but just go with me here) - is the problem that he found out that we're spying at the UN, or that WE'RE SPYING AT THE UN?

Well, what if the UN knew and there was an unspoken acceptance that can no longer exist because the public suddenly has knowledge?

[archibaldcrane]

Well, what if the UN knew and there was an unspoken acceptance that can no longer exist because the public suddenly has knowledge?

How does this make spying at the UN acceptable?

[Souj]

How does this make spying at the UN acceptable?

It doesn't make it acceptable, but every single country spies on every other country and everyone knows about it. It's just when it becomes public everyone has to pretend it's a big deal.

[Cyn]

How does this make spying at the UN acceptable?

If it's accepted then how the fuck is it unacceptable at the same time?

[archibaldcrane]

If it's accepted then how the fuck is it unacceptable at the same time?

If it's accepted then how is it spying?

[Cyn]

If it's accepted then how is it spying?

By the public having knowledge.

[Olo401]

Guardian UK is reporting that JA has agreed to meet with police in the UK.

He's supposedly not going to be charged with anything, only questioned.

[archibaldcrane]

Guardian UK is reporting that JA has agreed to meet with police in the UK.

He's supposedly going to get black-bagged and shipped to Guantanamo

ftfy

[archibaldcrane]

and then relinquished to Estonia in exchange for a meeting with President Obama.

[Kuya]

http://sowhyiswikileaksagoodthingagain.com/

Similar to that Obama site.

[Athas]

I can see how that leak might adversely affect US interests. Of course the idea that this information was a very important secret or that this will lead to deaths is pure exaggeration.

It seems that people like athas want to keep insisting, after every leak, that someone is going to die, until, some day, it happens, and they think they will be vindicated. It does not matter that the same thing was said for the previous leaks and nothing serious happened. They will just keep insisting on the same damn point and be wrong on the principles again and again and again.

Funny, I don't remember ever saying any leak has caused unnecessary death or even put lives in danger. In fact I prefaced my first post in this topic noting the nessecity of the Iraq and Afghanistan leaks in revealing illegal or immoral activity that was either allowed or carried out by the US government.

However, this latest release of documents in this leak in my mind has only reinforced the idea that this release has been entirely unnecessary and entirely without benefit to anyone while unquestioningly damaging US and other interests. Only release of information that would negatively affect not only America's but many nations interests and make diplomat’s work that much more difficult in a time where their work is difficult enough, you’ve even admitted as much yourself Kuya. Not to mention this release of critical infrastructure as actually been skirting the line of irresponsibility unlike those that came before it.

While I would disagree that releasing this information is completely without risk (I would say it is very minimal) but for the sake or argument let's say it doesn't exist. Of what benefit is this information to any individual? Of what good does it do you to know that there are coal mine in Africa on which the US energy grid is very heavily dependent?

They are only vindicating those who attack Wikileaks claming they are endangering lives, because say for any reason anything should happen to any facility name in these documents, do you think there is anyone on the planet that would not consider WikiLeaks culpable?

Then why release this information? This has been my issue with this latest dump. If some revelations come from the cables dealing with the banks that they’ve been hyping up perhaps I’d walk that back some but I this point I have serious doubts if anything productive will come of it.