Post-Patch SP findings

[Thiefami]

Before I start..

_every mmo is a grind _since when has leveling been fun _wah u tryin tah hurt mah SE!?

All have been discussed to fucking death. The playerbase is hugely split on this and SE wants a living breathing game. So cope? No.

As bruiser, I think, stated you shouldn't award someone crap for killIng a mob of greater difficult and spending more time to do so. Mindlessly running in circles two-swatting blues with mike'n'da boys isn't fucking fun. Along with exp points a game serves you game experience on how to play. This helps you formulate how and when to use your abilities, how to play through challenging situations and learn tactics that should scale, and not just throw you in.


The game lacks immersion in the most basic forms. There is no reason to make the grinding as flavorless as the Levequests. This will only limit camps in it's current form, and subject lvling to a few species. Poor move, and shame on anyone willing to say this shit isn't broken.

My suggestion would be to say fuck party bonuses. Have mobs base sp based off highest rank in party, from there anyone within the 10 range will receive full exp/sp anyone not gets severly reduced.

Blues/ 45 - 75 sp
green/ 75 - 150 sp
yellow 150 - 225
orange 200 -275
red 275 - 375
dark red 375~ 450

that would be choice to me, anyway my two cents

[Riposte]

Or they could move away from many vs one combat and have monsters call for help(summon a party of similar or weaker monsters, like guildleves) when attacked with a party. (Though not to lock out many vs one combat altogether, it should obviously scale to party "power level". Size and rank of party deciding if and how many monsters spawn. Legions could perhaps turn a blue monster into 4-6 monsters, while a green into 2-3.) The end result being more demanding combat, more application of AoE abilities, and also more SP. Add a exp-chain mechanic is obviously sensible too(though I didn't say it... there should be a SP boost so fighting 3 blues at once is better than fighting 3 blues over time, other than removing walking time). Though in either case, they do need to increase the SP earned from orange-red.

[Hyan]

Or they could move away from many vs one combat and have monsters multiply(summon a party, like guildleves) when attacked with a party. The end result being more demanding combat, more application of AoE abilities, and also more SP. Though in either case, they do need to increase the SP earned from orange-red.

If they do it like you explained, why exactly do they need to increase the SP from hard mobs?

[Riposte]

Because they are much harder. I feel like the risk/reward ratio is busted, even if you made players engage multiple weak monsters at once.

[Hyan]

Wouldn't that make the system encourage pigeon holing of classes and party sizes? Just theoretically speaking.

The efforts should not go to waste... but maybe more SP is not the way to make the risk/reward ratio "better".

[Frein]

Wouldn't that make the system encourage pigeon holing of classes and party sizes? Just theoretically speaking.

The efforts should not go to waste... but maybe more SP is not the way to make the risk/reward ratio "better".

Pigeonholing happens when there is an incentive to do something well. There is an incentive to do something well when doing something well yields greater rewards than doing something poorly.

I don't see how you can possibly avoid pigeonholing without also trivializing all content to the point where it doesn't matter how you play. At that point I'd rather not play at all. Perhaps some people want the perpetual easy mode but I like to be challenged by my games.

Leves right now bore me to death because there is no incentive to be effective and obviously they contain no story content, either. If I do it fast, I'm just going to run out of leves sooner. Also, in leves so much time goes to things other than fighting that killing a little bit faster doesn't even speed it up all that much. Leves really remind me of WoW quests, which while seemingly different, all felt the same and almost made me puke with frustration near the end of the grind.

[Hyan]

I don't mind pigeon holing but this shit is the most basic content you do to progress. How challenging must it be? I want to be able to progress without having to deal with bullshit.

It's not me wanting the whole game to be easy as fuck but some content needs to be easier than the others.

[Frein]

I don't mind pigeon holing but this shit is the most basic content you do to progress. How challenging must it be? I want to be able to progress without having to deal with bullshit.

It's not me wanting the whole game to be easy as fuck but some content needs to be easier than the others.

It doesn't have to be difficult but I think there needs to be an incentive to perform well, to try your best and to compete with other guys. In FFXI there were those guys who showed up to parties in full AF and Beetle Earrings. Yeah, those guys really pissed me off and the game needs to harshly punish approaching the game with that attitude.

[Kurokikaze]

If they do it like you explained, why exactly do they need to increase the SP from hard mobs?

Because I can take 4-5 minutes to solo red Eft for 203 SP or I can kill it in a group of 6 for 132 SP. That solo is just not worth the time/effort. I honestly don't think you've fought a Orange-Red mob outside of a leve if you really don't know the answer to that question.

The class system in this game is what is going to prevent pigeon-holing if my party last night was any indication. Our healers left halfway through and everyone equipped their Healing Skills/Buffs and we kept moving right along like nothing happened. I was pretty impressed by that... had that been FFXI; party would've been a wrap.

[Tezz]

Yesterday i got the pleasure of Trioing with an Archer. All i have to say is that i can see Arrow Burn parties being some of the fastest SP.
We were both R36 with a R30 Thaum. After killing many puks, rats & Doblyn we killed a few Diremites & Scorpions. Normally they take too long to kill, but the archer burned it down pretty fast.
What i'm trying to say, is that with 2-3 archers in a party, i don't think everyone has to continue to kill Doblyns (which we were 1-shotting a few times).
(If you kill fast enough, you might not even need a healer or can equip a few yourself and be fine)

[Kurokikaze]

Finished the annotations for third part of my November Updates video; this one covering SP changes while grinding. Next one will focus on guildleves.



I wanted to get clips of groups at same level gradually increasing the number members and noting the differences but its hard finding people willing to test stuff. ;/

[Lucavi]

I don't mind pigeon holing but this shit is the most basic content you do to progress. How challenging must it be? I want to be able to progress without having to deal with bullshit.

It's not me wanting the whole game to be easy as fuck but some content needs to be easier than the others.

Just make the mobs call for mobs depending on your party size and done. There's nothing here that SE can't alter to make into a dynamic process. The bigger your group, the harder the mobs, or the more number. Shit's been around forever. Dungeon Siege and Diablo handled it easily.

[Riposte]

Not like that concept isn't in the game. Behest scales to the size of participants.

[Celeras]

Do we know the bonus for a leve mob versus a regular mob? I mean, assuming theyre equal level... leve mobs presumably have a boosted value even without aspect. How much is it? Hoping it is mentioned somewhere I'm unaware of, because it will be difficult to test conclusively as it would require single targets in a leve for accurate conning. Also would either have to assume the difference is identical pre-20 and post-20 after you take the general SP nose dive, or split them into different tests.

[Hyan]

It doesn't have to be difficult but I think there needs to be an incentive to perform well, to try your best and to compete with other guys. In FFXI there were those guys who showed up to parties in full AF and Beetle Earrings. Yeah, those guys really pissed me off and the game needs to harshly punish approaching the game with that attitude.

The problem I have with that is that I'm getting punished as well there.

I wouldn't mind if we were talking about a linkshell activity or some one time only-event. But it's normal exping..

[natethegreat]

Leaders of the Pack
R15
1 Star
No GA
281 Firefly
281 Imp

[Frein]

The problem I have with that is that I'm getting punished as well there.

I wouldn't mind if we were talking about a linkshell activity or some one time only-event. But it's normal exping..

Well, no pain, no gain, as they say. I just can't get any enjoyment out of an activity if I don't feel like doing my best is worth the effort. It's like losing on purpose because you're so much better than your friends and you feel the need to level the playing field; no enjoyment left in that.

[Gulkeeva]

Was lvling up one of my lower lvl jobs...
Lv11 THM doing lv10 leve 5 star solo cobyln's/marmots/dodo's

cobyln's were 850-900 SP, marmot/dodo's were 1000-1100 (and took about 3X longer to kill then coblyns)

wish I could do the same on my lv 40's character for SP ;/

[Lucavi]

That's the current difference between between casual and hardcore, Gulk. They've gotta do something to get people into the game, and they've done it. Its just too bad that their decision winds up hurting the higher levels, but they never said they were finished fiddling with the system.