Post-Patch SP findings

[goodr]

Well, as I said, I completely made up the numbers to illustrate two things based on your query:
1) The base SP gained is split up into the number of people in the party regardless of whether you're in range or not
2) Your bonus is calculated based on how many people are in bonus range of you. If no one is, you're SOL.

This was presented as a counter example to the idea that it's based off average group rank or something similar.

[goodr]

Hmm I may be too specific there again. Let me try again.

1) The base SP equals some portion based on the number of people in the party. (That is, I don't know if it's split across the number of people or there's a slight reduction after a duo, etc)
2) same as above

[Celeras]

[edited like 40 times, now done] Goodr, I don't know what you're trying to say but it seems like youre reiterating what we already know without addressing what we're trying to figure out. We already know that it's not based off average party level, never was. Its on a per-individual basis. Its easy to say "Bonus based on how many within range". We knew that already, what we dont know is the penalty for having someone NOT in range. There has to be one, or else the range doesn't make sense. And that's what I'm trying to figure out.

Had a thought. Here's what the numbers in the OP show based on my limited testing to a trio(COULD REALLY USE MORE NUMBERS WITH BIGGER PARTIES, SOMEONE HALP):

Solo: 110 base
Duo within boost range: 99
Trio within boost range: 88

Easy to look at that and say: 90%, 80%. It works when everybody is within range... but maybe that's not what's actually happening? Maybe the math is as followed:

Solo: 110 base
Duo within boost range: 110/2= 55, +(55*.8 )= 99
Trio within boost range: 110/2= 55, +(55*.6)=88

Completely made up, but gets the same results. At that point, you can actually see the bonus being added based on how many people are within range.... which opens the door for subtractions based on how many people aren't within range?

Yeah idk. I'll be bugging people tomorrow to stand around horizon and test, expect it.

[goodr]

I was poorly showing that there is no need for a subtraction, or a penalty for not being in range. The 'penalty' is you're already splitting your SP. That's why powerleveling is so effective (even half of the SP is still pretty good SP). I believe the formula you're showing demonstrates this well.

How I saw this anecdotally was being the person doing the work in a power leveling situation. I was the r20 and my friend was r1. I got exactly half of the SP I was getting solo. IE, no bonus.

[Celeras]

Yeah, it's cut and dry with two people. Not so much with multiple people and multiple boosts. Haven't been able to get people to test yet.

[Chakra]

Even with this new formula, people are not going to be ranking as they intended when there are coblyn. There are pretty much rank ranges of them that can take you all the way to R50. Hence, how I got 46-50 post patch. Even then, it was rough. Coblyn are a pretty good way to play at a pace like a SP party would when you are solo and it still is... awful. I can't imagine what it would be like if they nerfed their HP.

I expect MMOs to have a grind. I didn't expect to get 85k-100k TNRs @99-110SP a kill. That's a Korean grinder level and pre EXP patch FFXI. No fucking thank you. This is not an improvement past a certain point in your progression. This is a huge step backwards.

[Hyan]

Sounds like an alright pace for when I start playing, really.

Can't we keep this thread for figuring stuff out, instead of the usual bitching? There's a thread for it.

[bruiser]

Sounds like an alright pace for when I start playing, really.

Can't we keep this thread for figuring stuff out, instead of the usual bitching? There's a thread for it.

Just to put things in perspective, to upgrade your relic weapon in FFXI after the level cap increase, I think you had to kill like 4,000 mobs right? And to get from 46-50 in 14 you need to get about 375k SP at 100 SP / kill. So... Pretty much the same. Definitely bullshit.

[Hyan]

How long does it take to kill a single mob?

Even EP's in XI take their time to kill.

[Chakra]

More of a warning to whats to come when you're nearing the cap on your class post SP patch. No back seat modding needed, thank you.

Edit: Also, you missed my point. The way I SPed was exploiting a mob that has a faction of the HP another mob has in that rank range. If you put that into perspective you'll find examples much like Brusier made.

[Darus Grey]

How long does it take to kill a single mob?

Even EP's in XI take their time to kill.

Long-enough, the pace right now is really terrible though, worse than FFXI ever was(even at launch), the only difference being you do it alone(mostly). I'd even go-so-far as-to say it's currently beyond Korean grind in current state, I've played plenty of those games, but XIV is the first one that crushed my spirit.

Just for perspective, 1-75 in FFXI was 800,000~ or so XP.

800,000 in FFXIV is...just R38-50~?(and this isnt even the final cap!)...and the pace is about 1/2 as slow as XI was at launch(no matter what anyone says about "15k/hour", they're 99% lying, no matter how I do I can barely break 10k in crowded mob spots with a partner going as efficient as possible on mobs that die in 3 hits, they're exaggerating. I run an actual parser and dont just eyeball it..)

[Hyan]

Maybe in an actual exp setting, but at least half of my time in XI was spent in Jeuno (whose spirit wasn't crushed by that?), 1/4th was spent farming for money, and the last 1/4th was spent actually progressing.

If we want to look at it objectively, we can't just ignore these factors.

Isn't guildleves how people have gotten to 10-12k/hour? At least I thought so.

Either way, the problem is not the actual pace, it's what else there is to do in-between ranks. They can keep adding content, or they can make progressing faster and never go back (because let's face it- we don't like nerfs, especially to the rate of progression). This also leads to content being very top-focused, because that's where everyone will be and that's where SE has to keep people busy.

Just saying. We can play and endure the grind, or we can simply wait.

[Celeras]

and the pace is about 1/2 as slow as XI was at launch

Get out. Did you ever even play XI at launch? 4k/hr max, the entirety of which was spent in Eldieme with War/Mnk tanks standing around waiting for mages. I never even hit the cap at any point until it was raised twice to 60.

[Drakath]

More of a warning to whats to come when you're nearing the cap on your class post SP patch. No back seat modding needed, thank you.

Edit: Also, you missed my point. The way I SPed was exploiting a mob that has a faction of the HP another mob has in that rank range. If you put that into perspective you'll find examples much like Brusier made.

I hear you dude, I got 47-50 on those Doblyns and it was BRUTAL post-patch. I've pretty much been scarred by this point and refuse to level anything beyond 20-- it was that bad.

[Celeras]

And is there any reason why you chose to solo Doblyns round the clock for 100SP? I get more than that at R50 when I switch to kill something in a 2 star R30 leve for my other jobs.

Yeah, theyre appealing cos they die fast. I get it. Still a case of doing it wrong. 5star 40 leves with a few links is easily 600+SP/mob all the way up to 50.

[Hyan]

I wonder how that changes when they introduce r50 leves. 600+ at r50 doing r40 leves... hm.

What I'm really confused about is if all people are just stuck in the mob grinding mindset if what you're saying is true. I guess they really gotta make leves OP sp gain wise to make people switch.

[Grey Jorildyn]

I think one of the issues is people don't want to do leves. Nor do they want them to be the primary way to progress ranks. They're kinda boring and require a lot of travel. It's not a very fun way to play a mmo at all.

[goodr]

Agreed about the travel issue. I've been tempted to fraps my leve cycle and see what portion of the time I spend walking.

[Celeras]

I think one of the issues is people don't want to do leves. Nor do they want them to be the primary way to progress ranks. They're kinda boring and require a lot of travel. It's not a very fun way to play a mmo at all.

As opposed to solo grinding Doblyns? Take it to the bitch thread I guess, keep this for the data.

[Drakath]

And is there any reason why you chose to solo Doblyns round the clock for 100SP? I get more than that at R50 when I switch to kill something in a 2 star R30 leve for my other jobs.

Yeah, theyre appealing cos they die fast. I get it. Still a case of doing it wrong. 5star 40 leves with a few links is easily 600+SP/mob all the way up to 50.

You still get SP at rank 50, you know. So that means when I do my 4 star rank 30 leves I can still see that each mob is only giving me only 100 SP even if it is not adding toward anything. Rank 40's on one star give me 40-70 SP per mob. Wasn't it already proven on another page in this thread that the scaling for adding stars couldn't ever be enough to boost it up to this 600 you speak of...?
Not that it makes any difference whatsoever, because your TNL in the late 40's is 100k every fucking level, which even by good SP standards is 10 hours of work. 4k an hour in FFXI? That's still only 2-3 hours right up to level 50ish (pretty sure your TNL didn't even go above 10k until after 50...)
Not that any argument we could possibly have is going to change the fact that leveling anything passed 30 especially is comparable to slitting your wrists.