Post-Patch SP findings

**Lucavi** · 2011-02-09 16:16

Originally Posted by Grey Jorildyn

The game really needs something to determine mob "difficulty" off of other than just levels. As was said already, having "sub-cons" might work, but it needs to be implemented within a system that differentiates between solo mobs and party mobs. What I would call for is an "elite" system as most other mmos have. While we have a pseudo-system in place, which is implemented in two different ways, they need to be unified.

The first way this is implemented is via mobs that appear to give 1.5x/2x SP. These mobs include crabs, efts, jackals, peistes, ahrimans, raptors, and a few others I'd have to look up. Basically these are mobs you dream of grinding on, but their HP totals vary so greatly from one family to the next, they're not always ideal to grind on due to factors sucb as long respawn (Peistes) or low frequency of spawns (ahrimans/efts).

The second way this is implemented is via covertly difficult mob types. Humanoids, undead, and malboro to name some. There might be others I cannot recall atm, but they're basically the super difficult leve mobs you avoid.

If the first type were transformed into "elite" mobs, we would know they were party mobs. Aion did a great job of this by having different target bar design. Mobs also had dots that represented difficulty. SE could use stars for this since they seem to love them so much this time around. Here's how you implement tiers: boulderdowns raptors/nine ivies efts are 1star elite, everlakes raptors/iron lake efts are 2star elites, velociraptors/salamanders are 3 star elites, etc. Please read this SE--I am trying to help you unsuck your con system.

Apply the same principle to the second group and make them into elites with party bonus sp like the first batch of mobs listed. This ain't hard. Just do it /nike

Or, simply, mob level + normal/elite icon, like other games do so simply?

**tymora** · 2011-02-09 17:58

Originally Posted by Enygma55

Rank difference is the only thing that matters when crafting now. The bigger the difference the more sp jumps. Vice versa for recipes below your rank the more sp gets cut drastically. +3-4 rank is ~300sp where as +7 is like 600sp for regular synth recipes. This system rewards you for crafting hard stuff but accidentally destroyed crafting anything 4-5 ranks below you including local leves. (doing R30 local @R40 gives 100 sp)

Average SP is roughly 1/4 that of the base exp you get. It is now +200 base exp per recipe rank above your rank so that is about +50 SP more per rank on average.

The Base EXP table is in my Recipe Rank thread.

**Grey Jorildyn** · 2011-02-09 20:49

Originally Posted by Lucavi

Or, simply, mob level + normal/elite icon, like other games do so simply?

Yeah. I was just laying it out for the people here who have never played other games (which makes me very, very sad).

**tymora** · 2011-02-10 16:48

Originally Posted by Grey Jorildyn

Yeah. I was just laying it out for the people here who have never played other games (which makes me very, very sad).

Doesn't necessarily make that system good. I find that "Level + various degrees of Eliteness" just complicates things unnecessarily.

Depending on the game, Elite mobs do more damage, have more hp, have better loot and give more exp...which can just be reduced to just using levels.

**Hyan** · 2011-02-11 02:03

Meh, dividing monsters sucks. If the mob is' easy' you put it in a group of 5 to make up for it. If the mob is 'hard' you make it so it's alone or in a duo. 'Easy' mobs doesn't have to mean 'solo' mobs nor does 'hard' mobs mean 'party' mob.

**Grey Jorildyn** · 2011-02-11 04:22

Mob systems require complexity. If nothing else, admit thay the current one is far too simplistic.

True. But there can be that distinction and in no way does that mean you cannot have a good balance of battle in both flavors of many vs one and many vs many.

**Jakson** · 2011-02-13 03:10

Ok, wtf am I missing...On my 24 Gold, I'm doing Brass Ring synths because the ingredients are relatively cheap and I can sell the rings for 1200 or so afterward, and I'm getting expected sp/exp (from the charts). You guys are talking about huge sp/xp from leves or what not and I'm not quite getting what I'm doing wrong. What level leves should I be going for, and what should I be grinding on outside of leves?

Edit: Also, I don't think I've ever seen a crafting leve higher than 20 and Goldsmithing is my highest craft.

**Jojimbo** · 2011-02-13 04:42

Brass rings sounds about right for that level range, there are a few other things you *could* still do but rings are most common item to grind. I've done a few leves post patch (havn't really played much in last month or 2) and got ~1200 skill per synth for r25 leve on r20 alch for instance.

As for the leve ranks, it's very luck based and some cities don't have leves for certain ranges for certain classes (iirc grid is shit for armorer around r15, most of the leves are r10 with about one r20). All I can say is check around, limsa has a few r20, grid occassionally has an r25 for GS

**Sephiroth** · 2011-02-13 05:57

Yeah Gridania has the only 25 leve for gold. I would recommend pushing to 25 as soon as possible as there are way more 30 leves, all given in Ul'dah and LL. You'll struggle with some of the recipes at 25 however but worth a shot. You won't find a gold leve above 25 ever in Gridania by the way. LL only has one leve higher than 30 (40) so it's pretty much just Ul'dah at that point.

**Kaeko** · 2011-02-13 20:43

Been trying to collect data to figure out the combat SP system and I think I have the basics figured out at this point.

What we were talking about earlier about different mobs having different base SP values seems to hold true. The amount of SP is also modified by the difference in level between you and the mob (dLVL) similar to XI. The SP modifier caps at dLVL=+10 and floors to 0 SP at -20.

Also think I have the majority of the party system SP worked out, but still some fine tuning to do on that one. Some nice charts provided on LJ.

http://kanican.livejournal.com/51730.html

**Celeras** · 2011-02-13 21:52

Good shit man

**Hyan** · 2011-02-14 03:10

So basically there's no downside to being in a duo?

**BethorBismarck** · 2011-02-14 04:19

Originally Posted by Jakson

Ok, wtf am I missing...On my 24 Gold, I'm doing Brass Ring synths because the ingredients are relatively cheap and I can sell the rings for 1200 or so afterward, and I'm getting expected sp/exp (from the charts). You guys are talking about huge sp/xp from leves or what not and I'm not quite getting what I'm doing wrong. What level leves should I be going for, and what should I be grinding on outside of leves?

Edit: Also, I don't think I've ever seen a crafting leve higher than 20 and Goldsmithing is my highest craft.

I bought some crafting gear (Canvas LV24) for my CRP and I can craft those LV20~25 leves pretty easy with good SP outcome. Atm I'm ignoring those LV1-15 ones, because I don't give a shit ;( Guildmarks becoming rare that way.. but.. 100 SP with a TNL of like 27k is like... literally nothing :O

Get decent crafting gear, the best crafting tool Main/sub and pick a recipe which is like 5 levels higher than you. The success rate is good with master's support and the crafting abilites. Nets you about 500~700 SP.

You can aim for a recipe which is higher than that. But your success rate goes down rapidly but if you get a success it will net you 1000+ SP

I did 2 lvls with my CRP24 yesterday which was ok. But.. like 2hours of crafting is like.. omg boring D:

**Kaeko** · 2011-02-14 08:51

Originally Posted by Hyan

So basically there's no downside to being in a duo?

No downside. Get the exact same EXP and SP as if you were solo. Found that odd too.

**Celeras** · 2011-02-14 09:12

Havent played much since the patch, but that'd be a change from my tests prior. Duo used to be x0.9

**Kaeko** · 2011-02-14 17:42

It's definitely been changed so that solo and duo give the same amount, but I honestly feel the table I have for party modifiers is a bit shaky. I already know the values past 10 members is wrong. So a bit of verification / debunking would still be good.

**natethegreat** · 2011-02-14 19:09

Originally Posted by Kaeko

It's definitely been changed so that solo and duo give the same amount, but I honestly feel the table I have for party modifiers is a bit shaky. I already know the values past 10 members is wrong. So a bit of verification / debunking would still be good.

Tomorrow afternoon should be my first opportunity to test 10+ party.
I have also tasked some people I know to gather some data.

**Grey Jorildyn** · 2011-02-15 01:11

Hmm. I never party larger than 5 in a group and 8 in a leve static.

The math all seems to match what I scribbled since patch too. Glad to see it put into a neat table. Wish I had the time to do those things now.

**Kaeko** · 2011-02-15 01:23

Couple of Base SP values on XP'able mobs in the 40-50s. They are written as, again, the amount of XP/SP gained if you were to kill one solo at dLVL=0. In general, higher base = better SP. If you want to know what you would get solo at dLVL=10+ then just multiple the values given by 3x. Then use the party modifier table in blog to find your actual SP before fatigue.

Sundrake (60-64) - 500XP/200SP
Mountain Pieste (50-54) - 375XP/150SP
Grass Raptor (55-64) - 375XP/150SP
Wild Hog (40-49) - 250XP/100SP

Still need to check Efts, but are there any other common SP camps people want checked?

**Tezz** · 2011-02-15 17:53

Still need to check Efts, but are there any other common SP camps people want checked?

Padfoots & Eft in Mistbeard Cove seemed to give high SP around (i believe) the R44~ range before the update solo/duo (130? - 180+SP).
And of course Ahriman if you haven't tried them yet.

CLICK "Show Grid" - http://ffxiv.yg.com/zone/mistbeard-cove?id=1101
Padfoots at: (6x - 3y) & (9x - 4y)
Group of 2 Efts (spawn very fast) at: (10x - 4y)
Ahriman around: (10x - 6y)

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