Laevateinn (fully upgraded 85) vs Magian staves

[Jtmoney2424]

Ive been researching the two and with the formulas ive seen, the two seem very close on damage but i think my math maybe off. With the fully upgraded Laevateinn with magic attack bonus +40, would that beat the dmg of a fully upgraded magian stave? Trying to decide this before i waste a lot of time going for a mythic that may not be the best stave in the game.

[Malacite]

Mythic is garbage because it's straight up MAB instead of Affinity.

The original set of HQ staves beat out the basic Lev, and the upgraded Magians are even stronger. You're looking at a difference of +40 MAB vs +30% magic damage. You can't even compare the two.

[Jeryhn]

Just so we're clear, I assume that Affinity bonuses tend to be stronger because they are a multiplier for the entire magic damage equation (including MAB), whereas MAB itself only acts as a modifier for the base damage of a spell, not including day/weather bonuses? MAB is also directly subtracted from the equation when MBD comes into play, whereas Affinity is not?

Basically means the more MAB you have, the stronger Affinity gets?

[Cymmina]

Just so we're clear, I assume that Affinity bonuses tend to be stronger because they are a multiplier for the entire magic damage equation (including MAB), whereas MAB itself only acts as a modifier for the base damage of a spell, not including day/weather bonuses? MAB is also directly subtracted from the equation when MBD comes into play, whereas Affinity is not?

Basically means the more MAB you have, the stronger Affinity gets?

Affinity is what elemental staves have on them, there was just never a name for it. It's "staff bonus" in the magic damage formula.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Mythic is garbage because it's straight up MAB instead of Affinity.

The original set of HQ staves beat out the basic Lev, and the upgraded Magians are even stronger. You're looking at a difference of +40 MAB vs +30% magic damage. You can't even compare the two.

No. The bonus from the Lv.51 elemental staves is applied at nearly the very beginning of the formula, preceded only by resists and, in the case of AoE, division between multiple targets.

[rog]

You can't even compare the two.

Yes you can...?

mab/mab. With 131 mab (ie ice spells only), you'd get 2.71/2.31=1.173 Laeva nearly loses to hq staves, and if the macc matters at all, it actually will lose.

For non ice, you'd get 2.41/2.01=1.199, which isn't quite so terrible, but still obviously loses to magian staves at only +4 dmg.

[orson]

If acc is a concern Laev kind of blows not that the damage version of TotM staves are amazingly better (granted it's highly dependent on the MDB that the mob has) but you'd probably still want to create some +acc staves or have some HQ lvl 51 staves. There are a few other factors too like if can you melee any of the stuff you are fighting Laev should be a beast.

I wouldn't think about a mythic though until TotM is closer to the level 99 cap because you never know what'll happen Laev could end up being garbage later on.

[Byrthnoth]

Laevateinn (85) is garbage right now, especially considering the atrocious amount of effort that would go into getting one. If you can get MAB+100, then a further MAB+40 from Laevateinn is Damage+20%. Affinity +5 staves are Damage+30%. We don't know if the elemental Attack enhancement from Atma (Beyond, for instance) goes into Affinity, but it seems likely. That would decrease the potency of that element's magian staff relative to a pure MAB+ option, but it's not going to make the difference between 20 and 30%.

Traits - 36
Merits - 10
Novio/Moldy/Uggly/Teal pants/Morri body/Sorc ring/Eradicio/Witchstone/Theurgia = 47 MAB from gear
Atma - 30 MAB
30+47+36+10 = 123 MAB, so 100 MAB when weaponless is not close to unreasonable.

[Aurara]

i thought Yhel jacket+1 beat morri?

[Cymmina]

We don't know if the elemental Attack enhancement from Atma (Beyond, for instance) goes into Affinity, but it seems likely.

Yes we do know. It is a damage multiplier (not MAB!), similar to weather and staff bonus. It has it's own step, but not sure where in the order it occurs. There's testing in the atma discussion thread: http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/100...=1#post4252400

[TummieGaruda]

This conversation has been brought up many times in the past, specifically back when the Dorje came out. As said in previous posts, Affinity (Staff Bonus) is applied before Weather/Day Bonuses and MAB. Because BLM's already have the MAB traits, adding more MAB on a staff yields less damage per MAB added in gear when compared to Affinity based Staff weapons. The fully upgraded Laevateinn(85) with +40 MAB does ~10% less dmg per +5 MAB in gear/traits when compared to level 51 NQ staffs. When you compare the fully upgraded Laevateinn vs the fully upgraded Magian Affinity staff, the Mythic does ~24% less dmg per +5 MAB in gear/traits.

What this means is basically the Mythic beats the Magian Staff until around a total of 35 MAB in gear in traits. Once you cross that point, the Magian Staff does more damage. Since BLM already gets +36 MAB at 81, a naked caster with the Magian Staff would beat a naked caster with the Mythic.

[mdkuser]

No. The bonus from the Lv.51 elemental staves is applied at nearly the very beginning of the formula, preceded only by resists and, in the case of AoE, division between multiple targets.

Multiplication is associative. Facepalm.jpg

[rog]

Multiplication is associative. Facepalm.jpg

NOT WHEN THE RESULTS ARE TRUNCATED AT EACH STEP!!!111

[Chrius]

Multiplication is still associative... that fact is just not very useful when applying non associative functions in between.

Edit: And we probably should have been talking about commutativity here.

[Cream Soda]

Technicalities.jpg

[Humblejoe]

Clearly Rainbow Staff wins