The Mercury Keeps Rising: Level Cap to Be Increased! (12/01/2010)

[Tsuko_Asura]

I think Pchan knows how healing magic works.

[Khajit]

Not really. It might mean something outside abyssea possibly but inside it means it's weaker than whm Cure 5 simply due to how solace works. Whenever I was whm vs a nm post minikin I just randomly casted cures because there was nothing better to do.

[Purrloin]

Funny stuff. SMN wasn't one of the jobs left in the lolDRK with the Razed Ruins Atma. About the only thing we make our SMN cast is Raise.

[Cream Soda]

Someone needs to make a Hitler video with his main job as Drk or something and hearing today's update notes.

[Alkar]

I honestly don't get why some RDMs are so worried about curing. The only thing a WHM can do in a party/group is heal/support while a RDM can easily nuke as well as supporting other mages or melees. WHMs and DNCs can cover healing just fine, focus on other things.

[Foldypaws]

I honestly don't get why some RDMs are so worried about curing. The only thing a WHM can do in a party/group is heal/support while a RDM can easily nuke as well as supporting other mages or melees. WHMs and DNCs can cover healing just fine, focus on other things.

Because some of us like to lowman in the healer + melee strategy, rather than kite nuke, and that's currently annoying as fuck.

[Siatdiat]

Yeah trying to reinstate some game balance is annoying as fuck.

[Colenzo]

FINALLY, I CAN BRING DRK OUT OF RETIREMENT!

[Greatguardian]

Because some of us like to lowman in the healer + melee strategy, rather than kite nuke, and that's currently annoying as fuck.

So go WHM+MNK? I fail to see the issue here, unless leveling WHM in Abyssea is super duper hard for some reason. I took my RDM from 37-85 with full merits and capped skill (including Elemental which was like <100 before that) in like a week so I could solo some shit. It's really not that hard at all to add another job to any decent player's repertoire at this stage of the game, and basic AH gear is dirt cheap. If you're the sole healer for a Melee with 3-4k HP, you can go WHM and toss on capped dMND Tier 1 Enfeebles all the same. If you're in a group with a proper WHM, or Dnc, or whatever with real cures, RDM can do a lot more productive things with its time than Cure.

[Kaslo]

I am still more concerned about healing on PLD >.> Cure 4 really isn't doing anything when I have 2500+ HP which will only get more ridiculous after this update.

[Shin Volcano]

I am still more concerned about healing on PLD >.> Cure 4 really isn't doing anything when I have 2500+ HP which will only get more ridiculous after this update.

Because the goal with pld is to keep and maintain hate (what they used to try to do anyway) and cure 4 is very good for that, it's meant to help them establish hate, not become a full fledged healing job.

[Jeryhn]

I don't really understand this argument that RDM and SCH should have Cure5 because HP bars are getting higher thanks to Abyssea buffs. It seems to me that people don't necessarily want to be able to Cure better, they just want to be able to hit one macro to heal a melee completely to full, like what a well-geared WHM can do now. Attributing a "sadness factor" that a WAR can sub WHM and still get Cure4 to match the healing power of an RDM or SCH with refresh atmas (Here's a protip: Considering cure potency gear availability and Fast Cast effects, they can't) is much akin to complaining that anyone will be able to countertank with Counterstance and GH, i.e. it's a worthless argument.

That being said, there's absolutely nothing wrong with a SCH or RDM being limited to Cure4. WHM is not necessarily a better AoE healer either thanks to the availability of Accession. If you're in a situation where you're main-healing on either of those jobs, perhaps you should rethink your priority system and actually go and acquire gear that enhances your Cure Potency, like Serpentes set, Augur's Gloves, Surya's Staff +1. If you're too concerned about taking hate throwing out Accession Cure4s when fighting stuff, tell your melee to suck less and kill shit faster, or invest in enmity gear, or better yet... consider leveling WHM - it's not like its hard to do so now that its a decent mage job to have leveled and in groups. Or maybe you could just be more efficient on either of those jobs, and nuke mobs to shit with them. Thanks to the addition of Atma, it's not only worthwhile to do so, it makes things more efficient in general.

[Isiolia]

I don't really understand this argument that RDM and SCH should have Cure5 because HP bars are getting higher thanks to Abyssea buffs.

It's no different than finding Cure III healing from sub to not quite cut it at 75.

Where is the logic in trying to reduce the number of viable main healers anyway?

[Jeryhn]

It's no different than finding Cure III healing from sub to not quite cut it at 75.

Where is the logic in trying to reduce the number of viable main healers anyway?

How is Cure4 not viable, exactly? Having to cast it twice in a row to take someone from red to white doesn't seem like a restriction. If you want to factor in the recast of Cure4, you can alternate Cure3 and Cure4 to get someone healed up pretty quickly. It seems to me the only difference for a WHM is that they can throw out a Cure6 to heal someone to white in one Cure, with Solaceskin to boot. Not to mention the only reason Cure5 and Cure6 are better because of the incredible amounts of Refresh that are accessible in Abyssea. Outside Abyssea, RDM and SCH are still the cream of the crop when it comes to main healing in an efficient manner.

If anything, the argument that Cure 4 is accessible by subjob being a bad thing is counteracted by the fact that more healing is now accessible because anyone can sub WHM with dual Refresh atmas and throw out Cure4s like nobody's business, keeping people alive to do whatever they want in Abyssea.

[Yugl]

I personally don't care about healing other melees on RDM. The only spells I have are Haste, Refresh II (Macro has <me>), Dia III, Para II, Slow II, and Barvirus. Yet, I would still want Cure V just so I'm not stuck spending a million years curing from Convert. That said, does anyone have ideas (Bar-Manual cure) for getting myself cured in full MP? Casting it from macro puts me in cure gear, which cuts all benefits.

[Isiolia]

How is Cure4 not viable, exactly? Having to cast it twice in a row to take someone from red to white doesn't seem like a restriction. If you want to factor in the recast of Cure4, you can alternate Cure3 and Cure4 to get someone healed up pretty quickly. It seems to me the only difference for a WHM is that they can throw out a Cure6 to heal someone to white in one Cure, with Solaceskin to boot. Not to mention the only reason Cure5 and Cure6 are better because of the incredible amounts of Refresh that are accessible in Abyssea. Outside Abyssea, RDM and SCH are still the cream of the crop when it comes to main healing in an efficient matter.

Partly there you're overlooking the vast inefficiency of RDM in particular. The job has next to no AoE -anything- outside a sub. Casting a few cures back to back may work decently for one person...but if you're covering several, it really becomes slow. Spam casting Cure IV 10 times in a row (or whatever) is not efficient. Accession from sub? Sure. If you don't need to cure people back from AoE but once every couple minutes, and don't have anything else to do with your Stratagems.

WHM/SCH, particularly, ekes a lot more out of their MP. RDM certainly will have more raw MP to use, but uses more of it doing the same job.

If anything, the argument that Cure 4 is accessible by subjob being a bad thing is counteracted by the fact that more healing is now accessible because anyone can sub WHM with dual Refresh atmas and throw out Cure4s like nobody's business, keeping people alive to do whatever they want in Abyssea.

I don't think anyone is saying that better healing from sub is a bad thing. More that the few jobs that actually have native healing capability should rightfully be at least a little more capable than that. Cure V is the next available notch up. Giving it to RDM and SCH would still not grant them the additional potency gear from WHM, benefits of Solace for it, and so on. It'd just help maintain the relative usefulness of those jobs as healers, and it really makes little sense why SE hasn't given it to them yet.

[Jeryhn]

The job has next to no AoE -anything- outside a sub.

Irrelevant, there is no time you should be without a sub. If you sub WHM, you have Curagas. If you sub BLM or NIN, you're probably not main healing. If you sub SCH, you have Accession.

Casting a few cures back to back may work decently for one person...but if you're covering several, it really becomes slow. Spam casting Cure IV 10 times in a row (or whatever) is not efficient.

I wholeheartedly agree, but if we're talking a bunch of people involved and getting hit by AoEs and such... well, why the hell didn't someone come on WHM?

Accession from sub? Sure. If you don't need to cure people back from AoE but once every couple minutes, and don't have anything else to do with your Stratagems.

Speaking of Accession, what else are you going to do with it? Stoneskin? An RDM doesn't need any other stratagem besides Addendum: White (and I guess Manifestation in the case of a bunch of adds).

WHM/SCH, particularly, ekes a lot more out of their MP. RDM certainly will have more raw MP to use, but uses more of it doing the same job.

I don't get what you're trying to say here. If the only case where WHM is absolutely superior in healing is inside Abyssea, and both WHM and RDM have access to infinite MP levels inside Abyssea, what does it matter that an RDM spends more MP healing in comparison to a WHM? Let's also not forget that RDM has Refresh2 which can be Composured on its side. Again, the issue comes down to time when inside Abyssea. What you are asking for is a way to Cure faster, not better.

I don't think anyone is saying that better healing from sub is a bad thing. More that the few jobs that actually have native healing capability should rightfully be at least a little more capable than that. Cure V is the next available notch up. Giving it to RDM and SCH would still not grant them the additional potency gear from WHM, benefits of Solace for it, and so on. It'd just help maintain the relative usefulness of those jobs as healers, and it really makes little sense why SE hasn't given it to them yet.

I think you'll find that when it comes to WHM, there are just as many gimps around as there are on other jobs. There are a ton of WHMs out there who don't put the measly effort to kill 25 bottled pixies and kill 250~ elementals for Surya's +1.

That being said, if an RDM or SCH wants to heal better, they should simply make the effort to acquire the gear that allows them to do so. Surya's +1, Sitagoromo, Roundel and Serpentes set will put both of those jobs at exactly +35% Cure Potency, a more than respectable amount of healing with Cure4, and easily matches the average AH-geared WHM's amount of Cure Potency. And only one of those items is "hard" to get. You can come pretty close to the Cure Potency cap if you actually gear for it, even on RDM or SCH. Other jobs that don't have access to this gear, but can sub WHM to Cure4, won't even come close to the amount of healing potency you can achieve.

The tl;dr is: Suck less.

[Greatguardian]

Rdm and SCH need Cure V about as much as WHM needs T4 nukes. Don't kid yourself into thinking WHM won't be completely outclassed in overall utility if RDM or SCH were to gain access to Cure V, even if only through Addendum: White in SCH's case. WHM has a very niche role and it does it right. The advent of Abyssea has simply exacerbated the difference between the Primary healer of the game and Multi-Role jobs with healing capability. When you're somewhere on WHM you're Enfeebling, Sleeping (with one single-target spell with a 30 second recast), and Curing at the most. That's what the job does (ignoring melee-mage entirely here).

If you're RDM in Abyssea you can select from any combination of Healing, Enfeebling, Bind/Gravity kiting in a ton more PDT/MDT than Whm has access to, nuking for over 2k/spell, straight tanking /NIN without losing the majority of your fast cast options, and so on and so forth. SCHs likewise can toss out AoE debuffs, T4 nukes for 3-4k/spell, Animus spells and now Regain. If a SCH is going to be expected to be the primary/only source of cures for anyone they are going to be on /WHM for Haste (I want to shoot every SCH that shows up /RDM when they know they're taking care of melees for whatever reason), so they will have access to Curaga 2 natively for when they need to AoE cure without losing Strategems.

Sidenote: I just re-do my composured buffs when I convert and toss in Regen 2, saves a handy chunk of MP assuming I'm not worried about getting whomped through stoneskin at low HP.

Edit: I fail at quotes and f5, this was directed @ Isiolia.

[Classikmage]

Good lord insurgency/guillotine crit ws please please please please....

qft

[Fievel]

SE posts update notes so BG argues about Cure IV for 5 pages

I love you guys<3