The Mercury Keeps Rising: Level Cap to Be Increased! (12/01/2010)

[Foldypaws]

Red mage can do anything it wants, it doesn't need Cure V and it doesn't need to be anything more than what it is as far as healing roles are concerned: A competent healer in low-stress situations with great flexibility and utility that does not work well when extremely Cure-Demanding situations are placed upon it.

No, it can't, because what I *want* to do with it is be able to function as the healer in a mage + melee duo, and it currently cannot do this where a WHM does so easily. And my RDM has the serpentes, and the cure pants, and the earring, and the atmas and etc... It just doesn't work.

[Deven]

Like I said in my first post, you can't have it all. It's called job balance. fucking deal with it. RDM isn't the jewel of the mage jobs anymore and it's about fucking time. WHMs got pushed out for RDM for too many years; now RDMS are pissed they aren't the be-all end-all mage in every situation. boo fucking hoo.

[Juxtaposition]

Niche roles should include potent Regen spells, having low enmity healing, having efficient spells, enmity control, hateless nukes, and counter tanking.

Niche roles should not be healing, nuking, DDing, or tanking.

Game balance is pretty shitty if you want to do a traditional role and the response is 'go level a different job.'

[Greatguardian]

Like I said in my first post, you can't have it all. It's called job balance. fucking deal with it. RDM isn't the jewel of the mage jobs anymore and it's about fucking time. WHMs got pushed out for RDM for too many years; now RDMS are pissed they aren't the be-all end-all mage in every situation. boo fucking hoo.

^ Fucking this.

In a game where any individual character can level each of 20 jobs to max level, there is absolutely no reason to have 1 job that can do everything at once. If you don't need nukes/bind/grav/PDT/MDT, and you do need Cure V/VI, switch from RDM to WHM. If you don't need Cure V/VI but you do need nukes/bind/grav/PDT/MDT, switch from WHM to RDM. If you're too lazy to do that, deal with being subpar.

That said, I can't think of very many (any?) T1 or even T2 NMs that damage a single competent melee too quickly for a competent RDM/SCH to heal them. What NMs are you completely unable to duo with your RDM?

Edit: @Juxta, any RDM or SCH can heal. Since when can't they? They simply can't handle the sheer volume of curing that WHM can. This does not make them defunct healers. They are plenty competent in a majority of situations. When a situation is Cure-Intensive enough that Rdm or Sch just can't cut it, then you really ought to have just brought a WHM from the get-go.

[ronin sparthos]

I think the real problem is that RDM/SCH lost their backup heal - Cure III - due to Abyssea.

If you take damage, you reach for Cure IV but now HP bars are so large, Cure III is worthless and you're now riding Cure IV or eating the ground.

[Foldypaws]

^ Fucking this.

In a game where any individual character can level each of 20 jobs to max level, there is absolutely no reason to have 1 job that can do everything at once. If you don't need nukes/bind/grav/PDT/MDT, and you do need Cure V/VI, switch from RDM to WHM. If you don't need Cure V/VI but you do need nukes/bind/grav/PDT/MDT, switch from WHM to RDM. If you're too lazy to do that, deal with being subpar.

That said, I can't think of very many (any?) T1 or even T2 NMs that damage a single competent melee too quickly for a competent RDM/SCH to heal them. What NMs are you completely unable to duo with your RDM?

It's not the damage they take that's the problem, it's the fact that they can't hold hate off Cure IV spam while cycling through 7 shitty weapons to try to proc !! so I don't have to wait /another/ 30 minutes to claim the NM to get the key item. Even with minikin mostrosity and -enmity gear and etc... And then I can't stay alive on /SCH while the mob just beats on me. (Also I'm pretty positive a RDM couldn't keep a melee alive on Bukhis or Amhuluk or etc... but I don't try to duo those, so it's not the main argument.)

[Greatguardian]

Conflux out hate? Take a punch or two in PDT gear to dump CE? I don't think I've ever had major Enmity issues on my RDM, at least when I'm not nuking. It's not like RDM is in any danger of getting its ass kicked, they're far more sturdy than any Melee.

[Foldypaws]

NMs have never shed hate when I've confluxed before, I don't know how you're doing it. And I have ~40% PDT, it isn't enough, especially when I then have to cure myself and generate even more hate...

Yeah, it doesn't help. It's either get a WHM and proc, or go RDM and hope you get lucky on the first few weapons. And that's lame.

[Greatguardian]

Confluxing, Zoning, Logging, etc shed hate when the monster tries to search for you (you're at the top of his hate list) but can't find you. If you have more hate than your melee, you can just get chased to a conflux and tap it between attack rounds (not really hard on a slow'd/para'd mob). If you and your melee are both riding capped hate, you can conflux out then let them take a punch (putting you back on top of the hate list) and Lucid Potion I their Hp back.

Also you're generally losing more hate than you gain back by taking hits and then curing back up. If it's really *that bad*, use a martello, temp items, or regen spells. A ton of the temp items can be bought from the NPCs if you absolutely can't find a temp item chest between pops.

[Cleverness]

If you're actually having any hate issues or fighting something that has some sort of hate or partial hate reset, can just switch out your 5mp/tic Atma for Allure; larger MP pool and -Enmity is a good trade.

This, exactly.

Stop being a bunch a douchebags and level WHM if you want Cure5.

I already told you yesterday I am! D:

It's not the same tier. Ask any SMN. without the healing skill to back it up, it's not on par with a SCh or RDM.

sure atmas are great, but RDM gets those too, and composure/refresh II. So RDM will still be more efficient with MP than a WHM. You can argue with me all day, but the fact remains that RDM will be able to do more things more efficiently than WHM if they get Cure V, and you all know it will reflect on the invite status of WHMs. And don't think I'm hating on RDMs because I'm a bitter WHM, see my sig, I have them both 85

Ignoring the first part since enough pointed it out, but honestly, why bring up MP efficiency now? Frankly I can't remember the last time I had to Convert on RDM once I got 15mp/tic from Atmas alone. You can argue that RDM can get more self Refresh due to Refresh II, and then of course you'd be reminded of the AF3 pants for WHM. Invite rate, for what? Abyssea xp?

RDM getting Cure V wouldn't be the end all for WHM, the job has ALOT more going for it than just that in comparison for RDM for support. Can and has RDM been able to survive with Cure IV? Yes, I've done it myself lowman on some annoying bosses. Does that mean I think we should never get Cure V? If HP keeps scaling and the damage does all the way to 99, no, we should probably get it eventually. WHM will still have Cure6 + higher potency + several other tools that made them better at main healing than RDM, now without the hindrance of a more limited MP pool due to the level cap increase + abyssea. I'm already leveling it for that purpose but that doesn't mean I think they should never get it. WHM can and should be the best healer in the game for obvious reasons, but the alternatives shouldn't be as lackluster at 99 in comparison since it creates the same 1 job mentality people complained about with RDM over WHM.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Its so laughably obvious that people claiming RDM can fulfill a WHM's slot in a niche duo have never actually killed anything remotely challenging in a duo.

That's not to say that I think RDM should get Cure V(I have no opinion in the matter), but to say that its not in some ways crippling is pure ignorance.

[Greatguardian]

Its so laughably obvious that people claiming RDM can fulfill a WHM's slot in a niche duo have never actually killed anything remotely challenging in a duo.

That's not to say that I think RDM should get Cure V(I have no opinion in the matter), but to say that its not in some ways crippling is pure ignorance.

I very specifically said I was talking about T1 and some T2 NMs, the majority of which are not challenging in the slightest. Otherguy was freaking out because it was "totally freaking impossible, man" to duo anything with his RDM, and that's just plain not true. Hell, I said quite a few times already that if shit's too challenging for a Rdm's healing to cut it then they should get their asses on Whm, which is what got the other guy so upset in the first place. Where are these claims of complete interchangeability coming from?

[Francisco]

As a career MNK, I have to say I'm tired of this bullshit. Impetus? Fuck that... I want to be able to nuke/kite shit. I swear, if I get one more enhancement to Counter, critical hits, kick attacks or attack speed, I'm gonna flip my shit.

Seriously though - I've trio'd shit with RDM+MNK+BLM and WHM+MNK+BLM, and I will say I'd take the WHM setup any day over the RDM one. RDM doesn't seem efficient as a healer on many NMs, if any - at least compared to WHM...

Blazing Eruca is an example. Incinerate can do ~1200. Iku-Turso is another... ~600-1500 damage Maelstrom. Iktomi has 2000-2500 damage Sickle Slashes that ignore shadows... Unlucky double or triple attacks w/ Counterstance up can do 600-1000+ damage total... all that damage and Cure IV does what... 500? It just doesn't cut it. The fight turns into a race between how fast you can keep get the tank topped off, and how fast the mob readies it's next big TP move.

On easier NMs like Gangly Gean or something, I'd say RDM is better, however - thanks to superior enfeebles.

[Foldypaws]

I very specifically said I was talking about T1 and some T2 NMs, the majority of which are not challenging in the slightest. Otherguy was freaking out because it was "totally freaking impossible, man" to duo anything with his RDM, and that's just plain not true. Hell, I said quite a few times already that if shit's too challenging for a Rdm's healing to cut it then they should get their asses on Whm, which is what got the other guy so upset in the first place. Where are these claims of complete interchangeability coming from?

Actually, I said it was impossible to duo with a RDM and reliably proc red !!. If the DD keeps their main weapon all the time, it's not an issue, but being forced to kill the mob 3 times instead of 1 because I have RDM instead of WHM is retarded.

[Tsuko_Asura]

As a career RDM, I find it hard to believe that there's really any mobs where Para and Slow2 are going to be worth giving up Cure5/6, Auspice, and Afflatus Solace. Not that there's anything wrong with RDM G2 merit spells, but when WHM can virtually always be at the dMND cap, the difference between the enfeebling tiers becomes much less important, IMO.

[Greatguardian]

You can't reliably (100%) proc red duo anyways, so I'm not really sure I understand... if anything, MNK+WHM is the only duo that can reliably (100%) proc Blue 33% of the time.

Edit: Assuming the melee doesn't go and change jobs mid-fight, in which case it's a lot easier to hold shit on Rdm than Whm. But I'm assuming this isn't what you meant.

@Tsuko: I agree, and I bring my Whm 99% of the time over Rdm for healing situations. My point was that it's not impossible to do basic stuff with a Rdm if that's your only option and you refuse to level/use Whm.

[Jeryhn]

As a career MNK, I have to say I'm tired of this bullshit. Impetus? Fuck that... I want to be able to nuke/kite shit. I swear, if I get one more enhancement to Counter, critical hits, kick attacks or attack speed, I'm gonna flip my shit.

Chiblast, yo.

[Andradi]

Monk's style is.... impetuous.

Unless some magical awesome weaponskills appear DRK is still shit.

[Foldypaws]

You can't reliably (100%) proc red duo anyways, so I'm not really sure I understand... if anything, MNK+WHM is the only duo that can reliably (100%) proc Blue 33% of the time.

Edit: Assuming the melee doesn't go and change jobs mid-fight, in which case it's a lot easier to hold shit on Rdm than Whm. But I'm assuming this isn't what you meant.

No, by reliably I meant "more often than the 0% chance I have if the DD sticks to GAxe" You're right that it's not assured with a duo, but a WAR has better than a 66% chance if they can hold hate with gimp weapons.

[granando]

all i can say to that 1-job whm, is keep yr cureV, VI, auspice, afflat..whatever to whm ONLY. At the same time, keep refresh/convert to rdm ONLY, so no refresh/convert when sub. That is cool for u?

anyway that not what i want to post, im interested in the new Rng ability 'bounty shot'
Increases the rate at which the target yields treasure.

Does it meant that there is counter/timer for treasure? when the mob get claim, the timer start counting, upon reaching a threshold of the treasure (which might be determine by TH), the treasure would appear in the treasure pool?

If its the case, then zerg fight should yield the least drop, compare to regular 20min fight?
Anyone able to provide data for droprate in zerg fight?

and having Thf starting the fight (to start the counter or threshold) is better than having Thf at 5%?