Question about learning a new language.

[Woozie]

Is it possible for me to learn to write and read in another language without a teacher? I'm trying to learn Dutch. I have someone who I talk to on a very regular basis whose native language is Dutch, so that should help a lot in terms of learning to speak it. But her grammar and spelling are absolutely horrible in English (when she types) and I suspect it would be the same in Dutch. And I don't mean that her grammar is bad because she moved over here and had to learn English as a second language. She was born and raised in America and so were her parents. She speaks perfect English and all, she just types like she's on myspace or something, and she makes the same mistakes everyone else who's bad at grammar makes when typing. I'm not a grammar Nazi or anything. There's probably some grammar mistakes in this very post. I really just want to learn to do this right.

Also, does anyone know any good websites about learning Dutch? I have some books, CDs and Rosetta Stone

[Silenka]

Yes it's perfectly possible. However, to get the accent down without a proper teacher, you're going to have to watch a shitton of news/tv shows in the language, maybe even listen to music. Also, you should let your Dutch friend correct any mistakes she sees in your grammar after you start learning. Sometimes the stuff they teach in books or on websites sounds 'weird' in the actual language to say the least, sometimes it's outdated phrasing or something. It won't be a perfect replacement for a real teacher but learning on your own usually ends up being passable.

[SephYuyX]

Is possible to learn w/o a teacher, it's just the initial learning curve is much higher. I would suggest taking an introductory course at a local community college or something (then again who offers Dutch?), to get the basics, and then you can go from there. Grammar is definitely the hardest aspect for me when it comes to learning a language. After you have the basics it's all word memorization.

Ive heard good things about http://www.rosettastone.com/ and you can torrent it for free.

[miokomioko]

Rosetta Stone is great for learning the super formal form of a language from the ground up. I'm talking about matching the word "to drink" to a picture of a little kid drinking a glass of milk amongst 3 other images of kids doing things like eating a cookie, reading a book, and sleeping... repeatedly. Also, it's excellent for accents since the foreign words are always accompanied by a voice.

Pair that with watching lots and lots of subtitled television/films and you can eventually pick up the casual end of things. If you have a knack for figuring things out like language nuances through watching subtitled dialog, taking a language class might eventually bore you to tears.

I highly recommend Rosetta Stone + Netflix (for subtitled foreign films). I have caught on quite a lot of French solely in this way and was able to function in France based on it.

[Woozie]

Yeah, I figured she'd be really useful in terms of correcting my spoken language and helping me learn it. It's the writing I'm most concerned about. I doubt that she could pass the Dutch version of English Comp I and II at a college in Dutcherland or wherever the hell they're from (Dutchylvania?), so I'm more worried about being able to write and read really well without a teacher or professor to help me.

Oh right, it's Dutchistan, my bad.

[kawaiiuzume]

If you're fairly astute at learning languages Dutch is quite easy for English speakers to learn to read and write once you get the orthography down, As Dutch and English have a closer break off point than other Germanic languages. The major part that always gets me is word order since Dutch and English have fairly different word orders when sentences get above very basic levels. out side of general text books to learn Dutch the best way to learn writing would be to simply attempt to read stuff, books, newspapers from the Netherlands and Belgium and the like and try to see if you can model your writing after that. Music is a good way of getting the prosody of the language down, but you got to sing loud and horribly to what ever music you find lol.

What are you learning Dutch for? When I attempted to learn it I looked for things I was interested in and went from there.

[Weiing]

You can definitely learn a language without a teacher... just have to be persistent. Perhaps Rosetta may be helpful like you and others have mentioned. What do you think about Pimsleur method? There are a ton of languages I want to learn but really flip flop between them (sign language, French, and Spanish), but I now have the Pimsleur audio for Spanish and it's not bad for trying to get the nuances of the spoken language in conjunction with using practice books.

[Rhinox]

Schmoke and a pancake

[*Shinzon*]

Yea I've heard Rosetta stone is great for self teaching, probably the best. I've actually almost forgotten most the class room spanish I learned because my professors were always lame and I never really used it. Hoping to pick up (torrent) Rosetta stone Spanish and teach myself.

[miokomioko]

Just know that while Rosetta Stone is great for reading/writing and basic grammar/structure, it doesn't do a whole lot for casual conversation. You need to pretty much learn that somewhere else (media, submersion, etc.) if you want to be able to function verbally with others.

[Kerberoz]

Don't use just 1 source to learn. I'd recommend obtaining (see: pirating) Rosetta Stone purely for vocabulary, a normal English->Dutch textbook (get some old edition that no schools use anymore, it'll be dirt cheap), and if possible, a couple middle-school level books on any subject in Dutch. Watching dubbed TV shows/movies online might help, too. Just keep changing it up so you stay challenged.

[Viq]

This gets mentioned in just about every language thread, but the closer your native language is to the one you want to learn, the better Rosetta Stone is. English -> Japanese/Korean/Arabic/Mandarin/etc is a massive waste of time with Rosetta Stone, but English to most European languages isn't too bad for learning vocab and grammar.

[notorious bum]

www.livemocha.com could also be useful for finding more people to practice with on grammar and pronunciation. Its basically Rosetta Stone online.

[clobetasol]

Try to watch tv shows, read newspapers, books, listen to music and talk to your lady friend all those will help a great deal to get the hang of the language. But if you want to master its grammar etc , your gonna have to put more effort and take a course, or move over there.

[Callisto]

Not sure what's around you Woozie since we both know Akron isn't exactly a bastion of international culture, but at least out by me there's several cultural centers for different ethnicities like Japanese and Polish that have people whose sole job is to just hang out and speak to you so that you can practice the language in a conversational manner, maybe dig around and see what's around the Akron/Cleveland area. Or hell, see if there's someone on BG who speaks it that'd be willing to Skype or something with you. The CDs/books will teach you the words but the hard part is the flow of the conversation, and that's something you can't do without practice.




Also I feel required to fit in something something 'Brosetta Stone' but am too busy to make a proper one-liner for it atm, but you can tell where I was going with it I'm sure.

[kuronosan]

It's definitely possible. There are plenty of resources out there. It's how I was able to pick up a little Japanese and Russian. Then I met my girlfriend, and now I speak Spanish, English, and some Russian too.

[Denchi]

If you're fairly astute at learning languages Dutch is quite easy for English speakers to learn to read and write once you get the orthography down, As Dutch and English have a closer break off point than other Germanic languages. The major part that always gets me is word order since Dutch and English have fairly different word orders when sentences get above very basic levels. out side of general text books to learn Dutch the best way to learn writing would be to simply attempt to read stuff, books, newspapers from the Netherlands and Belgium and the like and try to see if you can model your writing after that. Music is a good way of getting the prosody of the language down, but you got to sing loud and horribly to what ever music you find lol.

What are you learning Dutch for? When I attempted to learn it I looked for things I was interested in and went from there.

WTF Flagstaff. I just moved away from that shithole.

[kawaiiuzume]

WTF Flagstaff. I just moved away from that shithole.

Ha! I fortunately only live there when school is out.

[Denchi]

Ha! I fortunately only live there when school is out.

So you're FROM there?! I bet you're a goddamn hippy.

[kawaiiuzume]

So you're FROM there?! I bet you're a goddamn hippy.

oh good lord no, My family is part of the non-hippy demographic (we exist, I swear).