Tanaka Keynote at GDC China

[Lucavi]

It doesn't matter if its capitalistic greed or not. It shouldn't thrive in a game that "attempts" to promote balance; not when it can be easily and fairly controlled by offering incentives for the rich to part with their money in ways that doesn't involve screwing other people over.

If the buyer and seller wish to negotiate that out, then fine. I made millions rapidly because people were willing to pay my prices. So be it. But in a different system, I wouldn't be worrying about the economy already being fucked like I am now. You really think that this current system we have now is "working"? You think that XI was "working" in 05?

Things can be improved, and they can be improved to help out everyone. I'm not advocating against making a profit; I strictly said that those who obtain items can set whatever price they see fit to set, and people will buy. I also said, though, that without a baseline price, low level players get screwed (which they do), fresh max level players get screwed (which they do, having to compete with people that have sat at cap for years), and without tangible ways to drain gil out - and no, a fucking 3 dollar fee for a chocobo is not a tangible way, nor is simply banning RMT once they've already done their damage - you risk yet another episode of "As the 2005 in FFXI Turns".

@Hyan: You tell me. Were there tangible gilsinks in XI back then? I don't think so. What the hell is a chocobo fee or a dynamis fee when people are taking down bazaar items for 99,999,999 because people can -actually- afford that! You're also right with there being a lot of factors that go into it. Horizontal progression was a major factor. I'd like for someone who still plays XI to chime in on how the AH looks for the average 75 gear now that all of the hardcores and end-gamers have moved onto greener pastures.

[Spira]

2005 proves me wrong only because it is an unnatural state of the economy. Without RMT, would people suddenly be able to create millions of gil for themselves? no. That is one reason why SE took so much pains to ban them and to remove billions gil from the system.

Without RMT being effectively rampant, the economy is naturally in mild deflation, but so well controlled that even fairly decent injections of gil creation like from mog bonanza havent been able to inflate prices much.

A base price system is idealistic and will never perform as intended for a market driven economy. Think of it as par value. Market prices are driven by perceived value from the players, which is what causes prices to change, but par value never changes above or below itself, nor does it take into account the cost of acquiring the items that people sell, especially the crafted ones. In which case, no one would be willing to sell on AH because they would make a loss / never earn profit - maybe even NPCing might be better. the system would ultimately fail.

[Lucavi]

A base price system is idealistic and will never perform as intended for a market driven economy.

And yet it does in other games. Funny thing, that.

[kisada]

i have a bachelor's in economics and i'm not sure i can explain it better than spira did.

price controls create all kinds of strange incentives which can dramatically imbalance a market.

[Lucavi]

So we instead attempt to fully eliminate that which cannot be extinguished (RMT) and leave the economy as it currently is. Gentlemen, I give you the current state of XIV.

Enjoy.

[Hyan]

RMT can still be made irrelevant.

Much like, XI today. And I would say, XIV too.

[Lucavi]

Yet the economy is in shambles, and the devs are claiming that there is no AH system coming. Clearly this is a better solution. We should continue to "stay the course", correct?

[Hyan]

The economy needs money sinks. They'll just set the chocobo price to 50k instead of 500. Shit is that simple.

[Lucavi]

And that's fair for a new player? A rank 20 leve gives, on average, 4-12k. That's your solution?

You're a good guy, but I seriously hope the devs don't think like you.

[Hyan]

Gee, make it scale exponentially based on your highest rank.

[Lucavi]

Why not reward the player for removing gil from the game instead of essentially punish them?

[Hyan]

Huh? lol.

You get a chocobo and kickass music to go with it. Which also gets you to your destination faster.

[Spira]

And yet it does in other games. Funny thing, that.

No it doesn't, because it is no longer a free market. That would be a command economy, where the game sets the price for everything and the actual value of any item will probably not matter to the price anymore.

If so then what you're advocating is akin to NPCs selling everything and players never having to sell to one another since it makes no economic sense to.
You'll end up with items you could sell that you don't want to because they are worth more that the base price you have to sell it at, and items you could buy that you won't want to because the value would have dropped well below the base price.

[Lucavi]

How about buying (or crafting) your own for 10 mil? Impress your neighbors, and that leggy Miqo across the bar!

@Spira: Not really, considering its easier to get rich in other games than XI, and with more options on what to spend the money on, to boot. You're arguing for a working capitalist economy. I'm arguing for a working MMORPG economy.

Two different things entirely. You can have one without the other, and one is far more enjoyable for the masses than the other. Just sayin'.

[Hyan]

Yeah whatever man lol.

Either way it is easy to fix and I'm not really having a rough time even in this current economy.

And goddamn you really are clueless about some of this shit.

[Lucavi]

Who said I was having a rough time either? There's a difference between "there's a problem with the economy in general" and "there's a problem with the economy because I'm on the poor end of it". If you don't see a problem with XIV's economy, just wait a few months.

Sometimes you want things changed because they can be improved upon, not simply because you aren't thriving in the current settings. And no, I'm not clueless.

[Hyan]

You sure do make it sound like the apocalypse is nigh. I am not exactly concerned about what happens in few months after this conversation though, lol.

[Lucavi]

No, I make it seem like there's a problem. Which there is, and that problem will grow if some things aren't addressed. A lot of items have lost their value in the game, and many aren't even used at all.

[Hyan]

Yep.. shouldn't have made some armor available from leves.

[Lucavi]

Agreed, but that isn't the only problem. There's too much freedom of equipment use; that, or not enough incentive to use specific types of items. Too little variation on stats, too little impact given to stats, and too much homogenization between jobs.

All of it can be tweaked, but it must first be addressed. That's where the "sky is falling", if anything, comes from.