Firas' Islam Meccathread

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

so basically if El Meca was a gay club with no booze it would have been ok

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

the best part about this thread is I support the Islamic community center close to ground zero while supporting the naming of a nightclub mecca. I wish muslims were as complex of thinkers and tolerant as atheists.

[kareface]

I wish everyone were as complex of thinkers and tolerant as atheists.

Plenty of other religions need that trait as well.

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

no just muslims I want the bible belt to have even more irrational fear of them for entertainment

[Kuwait-cafe]

DA TRAINS HERE!!!

[Cantih]

I question you gender every night. Every hour on the hour.

A lady can't have a strap-on?

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

A lady can't have a strap-on?

lady with a strap on decided to shit up spam with a copy of this thread, that's where firas is posting now. bring the debate over there and TROLL HARD

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/101...n-is-necessary

[Rumo]

If only there was some sort of method we could use. A method that looks at naturalistic claims on an empirical basis, maybe even based on the idea of reproducibility and internally consistent logic. Something where the preponderance of evidence could point towards the most probable solution to a given question, or at least provide evidence against outlandish claims that couldn't be verified. What could we possibly call such a method? Oh well, just a pipe dream. Such a method sure would take care of this "multiple realities" business. Heck, even the leadup to this method, before consistent empirical data could be gathered and it's just people thinking through these problems, could probably take care of such a squidgy notion centuries before this method I have envisioned. Maybe some day!

Sorry, i'm german. Had a lot of trouble understanding this but understood your question is if there is a method to deal with certain things. Well, in my perception there never is. The only thing I can do in this context is to try to make the people around myself feel as comfortable as I can. And that means taking myself back a bit and care about everyone's freedom, not just about my own. It will certainly happen that my freedom is cut a bit by this but i'm sure I got a hell of a lot more freedom like most people in the world so I can bear that.

The reality is, it doesn't matter what your beliefs are, nature doesn't give a shit. The reality is faith isn't something that should be respected. If people found comfort from beating other people should we respect their belief? There is no rational basis for faith. If there was it wouldn't be faith.

This comparison is weird. There's a huge difference in living after the Koran and beating up people... Fact is, humans believe in weird things... for me it's common sense i believe in.

I'd point you towards the Crusades, the book of Joshua, and pretty much most of the rest of history concerning the Abrahamic faiths and argue that religions, and by extension faith in such religions, does in fact not help people to get along better.

I'm afraid you missed my point there. It's not about religion itself. It's about the fact that we, in a globalized world have to find a way living together. And I think it might help taking the "others" the way they are. And for women in islam, that sucks, yeah. And I can imagine that, if you're a woman and trapped in such a system that's awful. But who are we to tell others what they have to change if in our western countries many things aren't allright either?

Matrix argument, the door is that way ->

Something like that really annoys me...

Being that naive is almost cute. almost.

Something like that, too. You guys don't really think this crap is furthering this discussion, do you?

Well, after reading and responding to that topic I sure feel that the border of my speech is the border of my world.
I studied pedagogics, psychology and some other crap for the last 5 years but I have difficulties expressing myself in another language and all that is irrelevant.
Hope you guys understood what I wanted to point out anyways. If not, ask...

[Alleya]

Sorry, i'm german. Had a lot of trouble understanding this but understood your question is if there is a method to deal with certain things. Well, in my perception there never is. The only thing I can do in this context is to try to make the people around myself feel as comfortable as I can. And that means taking myself back a bit and care about everyone's freedom, not just about my own. It will certainly happen that my freedom is cut a bit by this but i'm sure I got a hell of a lot more freedom like most people in the world so I can bear that.

What I described is the scientific method. I was being sarcastic.

[kareface]

This comparison is weird. There's a huge difference in living after the Koran and beating up people... Fact is, humans believe in weird things... for me it's common sense i believe in.

If I asked you to never depict the image of the guy who played the Wizard Gandolf because of my faith in the Harry Potter series, would that warrant the loss of personal freedom? Common sense would suggest you'd need to be some sort of idiot to even consider it. What is 'common sense' to you might not be for others. For me it's common sense that the Qu'Ran is nothing more than a mostly fictional story that many adults take serious. It's no different than children who believe in fairies. Anybody's common sense could turn out to be false. That's why we evaluate ideas. Common sense is great until the facts suggest otherwise. Problem is your ideas seem to be lacking in the fact department.

Many elements of the Qu'Ran contain things that clearly conflict with reality; people ignore them much like Fira has when I pointed out giant holes with 'facts' in the Qu'Ran. He keeps preaching on the forums but can't seem to answer questions I've presented about evolution, earthquakes, embryological development and many other elements of the Qu"ran that prove many things in the book are outright false. Someone who assumes the truth of a book that has been proven time and time again to contain false information shouldn't be talking about common sense.

Faith is a rationally unjustifiable belief in an idea. Why does anyone need to respect that? Just because the faithful refuse to accept the world as it is and prefer that you didn't hurt their feelings isn't a good reason. Give me a break. You have the right to make up what ever you want about how the world works. However no idea has an intrinsic right to be respected. What is the point of an idea that isn't questioned, evaluated, debated? Where else do you see ideas are assumed to be respected at face value. How many of those ideas turned out to be true?

I would argue that faith at large has done more harm in the last 2000 years than good. However even if you were to assume that mostly good has come from faith that wouldn't mean the idea is worthy of respect. There are many ideas that grant happiness that shouldn't be respected. If you think your idea is worthy of respect, prove it to everyone. Prove what you believe is true and isn't some fairy tale for adults.

You suggest that freedom should take a back seat to faith, that's a laughable prospect. You believe respecting someones need to believe in a fairy tale is worth the loss of even an inch of personal freedom? How does this sound, I'll respect your faith enough to sacrifice a little of my personal freedoms when you can prove your faith is worth respecting. Prove to me it's not just some pile of stories that adults take too seriously. Otherwise all you're saying is "I can't prove anything I'm saying, but you need to respect it anyways!"

Edit: Tried to make a few of the ideas a little clearer. Added a little here and there.

[Faris]

Many elements of the Qu'Ran contain things that clearly conflict with reality; people ignore them much like Fira has when I pointed out giant holes with 'facts' in the Qu'Ran. He keeps preaching on the forums but can't seem to answer questions I've presented about evolution, earthquakes, embryological development and many other elements of the Qu"ran that prove many things in the book are outright false. Someone who assumes the truth of a book that has been proven time and time again to contain false information shouldn't be talking about common sense.

please stop talking out of your ass. I dont preach, I defend.
i've replied to your previous accusations with detail, but you keep asking for a proof of the proof.

Its extremely difficult to discuss such an issue when we have 50 people on one side, and one person on the other. everyone posting, some are serious, some are just trolling, and not to mention the behaviour of BG members where mostly its attention grabbing and the fear of being wrong.

its not the appropriate enivornment to talk in seriousness, really. Yes, sometimes its attempted, by me, by others, but rarely do a clear message is conveyed to the mass. So, I refuse to waste 1 to 2 hours gathering information and referencing to satisfy your accusations; i might give a couple of short replies, but nothing in detail. If you want more indepth answers, most of them are on the internet, you can check them out.


And for the love of Darwin, dont think that you have cracked the mystery to theology with your curiousness; its been raised long before me and you were born many times; the philosophy, darwinism, science, religion and all that jazz.


the fairy tale for adults is when people believe that something came out of nothing.

and my name is Firas not Fira, not everything that ends with an S means its plural..

[Obev]

the fairy tale for adults is when people believe that something came out of nothing.

Or people believing that eating bacon will damn you. Or when people believe that a supposedly benevolent creator created a world full of misery. Or when people think that humanity and its deities are the end point of all existence when we are but a collection of apes fighting over a fraction of a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam. And they all lived happily ever after. The end.

[clobetasol]

To the atheists out there:

The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand.

'You're a Christian, aren't you, son?'

'Yes sir,' the student says.

'So you believe in God?'

'Absolutely.'

'Is God good?'

'Sure! God's good.'

'Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?'

'Yes'

'Are you good or evil?'

'The Bible says I'm evil.'

The professor grins knowingly. 'Aha! The Bible! He considers for a moment. 'Here's one for you.
Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?'

'Yes sir, I would.'

'So you're good...!'

'I wouldn't say that.'

'But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't.'

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. 'He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer,
even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Can you answer that one?'

The student remains silent. 'No, you can't, can you?' the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.
'Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?'

'Er..yes,' the student says.

'Is Satan good?'

The student doesn't hesitate on this one. 'No.'

'Then where does Satan come from?'

The student falters. 'From God'

'That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?'

'Yes, sir..'

'Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?'

'Yes'

'So who created evil?' The professor continued, 'If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists,
and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil.'

Again, the student has no answer. 'Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?'

The student squirms on his feet. 'Yes.'

'So who created them?'

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question. 'Who created them?' There is still no answer.
Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized. 'Tell me,' he continues onto another student.
'Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?'

The student's voice betrays him and cracks. 'Yes, professor, I do.'

The old man stops pacing. 'Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?'

'No sir. I've never seen Him.'

'Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?'

'No, sir, I have not..'

'Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?'

'No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't.'

'Yet you still believe in him?'

'Yes'

'According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist... What do you say to that, son?'

'Nothing,' the student replies.. 'I only have my faith.'

'Yes, faith,' the professor repeats. 'And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith.'

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of His own. 'Professor, is there such thing as heat? '

'Yes.'

'And is there such a thing as cold?'

'Yes, son, there's cold too.'

'No sir, there isn't.'

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain.
'You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat,
but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit down to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that.
There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees.
Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy.
Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold.
Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.'

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer.

'What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?'

'Yes,' the professor replies without hesitation.. 'What is night if it isn't darkness?'

'You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light,
but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word. In reality,
darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?'

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester. 'So what point are you making, young man?'

'Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed.'

The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. 'Flawed? Can you explain how?'

'You are working on the premise of duality,' the student explains. 'You argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God.
You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought.
It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one.
To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life,
just the absence of it.' 'Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?'

'If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do.'

'Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?'

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

'Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour,
are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?'

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided. 'To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student,
let me give you an example of what I mean.' The student looks around the room. 'Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's brain?'
The class breaks out into laughter. 'Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the professor's brain,
touched or smelt the professor's brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable,
demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir.' 'So if science says you have no brain,
how can we trust your lectures, sir?'

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable. Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers.
'I Guess you'll have to take them on faith.'

'Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life,' the student continues. 'Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?'
Now uncertain, the professor responds, 'Of course, there is. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man.
It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.'

To this the student replied, 'Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God.
It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil.
Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart.
It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light.'

The professor sat down.

[miokomioko]

How can there even be an absence of an ultimate, all-powerful, omnipotent being? Also, "evolution" is observable.

Stupid.

[Faris]

Also, "evolution" is observable.

yeah, thats why scientists still cant illustrate a tree of life to support the theory of (macro)evolution.

[ZarakiKujata]

yeah, thats why scientists still cant illustrate a tree of life to support the theory of (macro)evolution.

SHUT THE FUCK UP.

There is demonstrable proof of evolution across pretty much every species in existence including humans. Just because ignorant Islamofucktards and papists such as yourself do not know the first thing about how evolution REALLY works does not mean theres no support for so called 'macroevolution'

[xerodok]

SHUT THE FUCK UP.

There is demonstrable proof of evolution across pretty much every species in existence including humans. Just because ignorant Islamofucktards and papists such as yourself do not know the first thing about how evolution REALLY works does not mean theres no support for so called 'macroevolution'

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/6674/creationist.jpg

[Yabby]

I love it when you guys think your proving some point to atheists. You post your little story's or thoughts you heard somewhere else, thinking we will nod our heads just like you did when reading. You fail again.

[BerenTebogo]

Clobestols post turned my brain to dicks. What the fuck was that nonsense? Get the fuck out.

[clobetasol]

Clobestols post turned my brain to dicks. What the fuck was that nonsense? Get the fuck out.

Go play your free shitty mmo called ffxiv, when your playing a decent game you can come back and lecture me. untill then adios