A Message from the FINAL FANTASY XI Development Team (12/10/2010)

[Tormentormike]

Hm. The ex-hardcore ffxi veteran in me dislikes some of the things I've heard about Abyssea.. But the very busy with fulltime school/work new me wants to give it a try with my old friends. I think most of us that quit right before or right as Abyssea was getting launched don't really have enough of a perspective to make a judgement. I know that doesn't make anyone wrong, I just have come to terms with the fact that I probably can't make an accurate judge of it in my position. All I know is my very old friends all say it "breathed new life into the game", so I figure maybe I should check it out when the semester is over. D:

That you Uryuu?

[Khamsin]

Something bigger than an add-on, smaller than an expansion.. maybe an expansion of 1 pricetag that covers 3 updates, like abyssea probably should have been...

What difference does paying $10 three times, and paying $30 up front, make? I think people would rather have the option of buying individual parts over being made to pay for all 3 up front.

The main appeal of a boxed (or downloadable-but-just-as-good-as-a-boxed) expansion over a series of cheaper add-ons, is that the boxed expansion has more truly new content (new zones, material, mobs, jobs (possibly), regional conquest standing, etc.) and is better tied together whereas the add-ons mostly use existing material and just create new missions/quests/events around it. Abyssea was an exception, adding new zones, but they're mostly just existing zones that have been retouched. Even all 3 abyssea add-ons put together (or ACP/AMK/ASA put together) still isn't on the same scale as a boxed expansion.

Whether it's downloaded or boxed, I don't care, as long as it's on the same scale, has as much original content (including zones that make up their own unique region, it's own regional standing, bunch of new monster families, and maybe jobs) and is just as good as, a boxed expansion.

[miokomioko]

Hell, when they originally announced downloadable content, they specifically said that these $10 mini expansions would not have new zones or new mobs. Only story/battles/rewards.

We were very lucky to get what we got with Abyssea... even though the entirety of the $10 content pretty much is contained within a trio of reskinned zones with visitation restrictions (lol pseudo-prolonged content).

[Hyan]

They haven't been making new zones since what, 2006? I think WoE is an exception, but to me that looks like it's not completely new zone either?

I just find it very unlikely that A) they would start making more new zones now, with the playerbase shrunk by half, and B) they would make us download the zones in entirety, instead of putting them on a DVD.

Of course they can do that. I'm sure even with these subs they would easily make profit out of it. But that doesn't mean that they should or will do that. Especially with the same guy in charge of the budget. They will do what is absolutely needed, nothing more, nothing less. That's what the game has been about for the longest time.

Sure would be nice to see the rest of the game unfold.. but everything points at the opposite, sadly.

[Kaylia]

Apparently Ito was behind Pande Warden and director of Abyssea, while Fujito was behind things like MMM, Synergy, and Evolith, choco raising, and magians.

This guy sure seem to know what the players want.

[Hyan]

Sarcasm?

I don't think it's so easy to say.

I -think- that the problem with those events were the rewards, not so much the design, and obviously rewards are no longer an issue at least until lvl99, especially with the abyssea guy in charge. Magians already showed that his events are not always full of subpar rewards. So things could look good.

Job balance will probably end up being ruined forever without the battle director around but eh, it sounds more like sticking to the status quo.

[Spira]

I wasn't necessarily implying a $30 one-time fee for 3 add-ons but an in between like a price cheaper than an expansion but more than the cost of 3 add-ons combined... i suppose the issue at hand really isn't its price point but whichever pricing model they chose they still can offer up a lot of content. its really just a matter of whether they want to. but as you said, boxed content will usually come with more stuff, partly cos they're already connected products (unlike abyssea add-ons which are weirdly 'independent') and that they need to put stuff in the DVD lol. but as we all know from WotG, that wasn't very much either, and 70% of that wasn't even entirely new

[Dooom]

Just sayin', you're the second person to make this stupid argument while 0 people have said anything about the guy who started this whole derail by calling me a moron for not liking Abyssea.

In what way is it stupid? Seriously. Because I disagree with you? You, nor anyone else, decides what is fun for others. Calling such a statement stupid is just mind-boggling.

[Priran]

It's a stupid argument because you're trying to argue against a point I wasn't trying to make. I'm not "deciding what is fun", I'm saying that if you'd played better MMOs you'd have higher standards for the genre, standards which Abyssea fails to meet. By all means, continue enjoying and defending this crap, but realize you're basically trying to tell me what the greatest movie of all time is when all you've ever seen are Rob Schneider comedies.

[Not Kuno]

It's a stupid argument because you're trying to argue against a point I wasn't trying to make. I'm not "deciding what is fun", I'm saying that if you'd played better MMOs you'd have higher standards for the genre, standards which Abyssea fails to meet. By all means, continue enjoying and defending this crap, but realize you're basically trying to tell me what the greatest movie of all time is when all you've ever seen are Rob Schneider comedies.

You say you're not saying that then turn around and say it anyway. Abyssea is fun. Quit getting mad at video games.

[Priran]

You say you're not saying that then turn around and say it anyway

Explain where you think I said this so I can explain why you're wrong.

[Alkar]

if you'd played better MMOs you'd have higher standards for the genre, standards which Abyssea fails to meet.

This is pretty much like saying that you're right and he's wrong.
It's a fact that people like Abyssea and the changes that came with it.
You simply have a different taste that wasn't met.
Sucks to be you I guess, doesn't change that other people liked it.
Pulling the "better MMOs" card doesn't work, especially when said MMOs don't have the same amount of subs FFXI has. A better MMO would be more successful, if it's not then it's also not better. Maybe for you it is but you really shouldn't treat it like absolute fact.
What FFXI needs now is other events to do outside of Abyssea, which is what we'll probably get in the upcoming version updates considering the level cap isn't over yet and Abyssea is done.

[Priran]

If you care to read I actually made an attempt to quantify "better MMO" so that this whole retarded "that's just like your opinion man" argument wouldn't come up (ha). FFXI tries to do "PvE-only" but the PvE ends up being rather shallow. Rarely are fights more complicated than kiting or tank-and-spank, and the gear you get as a reward is good for little but killing the same monster faster next time. Lineage II and WoW (both of which have more subs than FFXI so so much for that argument) have more in-depth PvE as well as a PvP aspect that most people find enjoyable.

[Sagacious Sundi]

Pulling the "better MMOs" card doesn't work, especially when said MMOs don't have the same amount of subs FFXI has. A better MMO would be more successful, if it's not then it's also not better.

Since when does success = quality? Though I do prefer it to every other MMO I have played (not a big list; WoW, DDO, Vindictus, lolFFXIV, Guild Wars, and a bunch of free crap I can't remember), FFXI is as successful as it is mostly due to brand recognition.

[miokomioko]

FFXI is as successful as it is mostly due to brand recognition.

While probable, that's entirely assumption.


I think people are translating these comments as "You think that's fun? You don't know what fun is." Which is condescending in its own way... I don't like Abyssea because its "content" feels empty. There's no drive outside of hitting level caps and grinding away at Magian Trials for blue boxes. If there was content that was unaccessible or simply too difficult without hitting these new caps and getting these empyrean weapons/armor, that would be one thing. It might be there eventually, but it sure as hell is not right now. It's, for now, only allowing for less-experienced/less-efficient/smaller linkshells to finally be able to experience stuff that was normally only completed by the more elite groups (e.g. Pandemonium Warden, etc.). In the meantime, "hardcore" groups just do it faster.

[Spira]

I'm saying that if you'd played better MMOs you'd have higher standards for the genre, standards which Abyssea fails to meet.

thats a fallacy right there. just because you've played something better doesn't mean you'd have acquired that standard and won't go back - that much is an assumption. and 'better' is so subjective its best not to even begin approaching that subject.

[Priran]

just because you've played something better doesn't mean you'd have acquired that standard and won't go back - that much is an assumption.

You are right, there is no accounting for taste.

Any other wonderful arguments in defense of Abyssea?

[Dooom]

I'm not "deciding what is fun"

This is what people who've never played an enjoyable MMO actually believe

Implying that FFXI isn't a fun, enjoyable game to play.

Any other wonderful arguments in defense of Abyssea?

I find it fun. My friends find it fun. That's all the "defense" it needs.

[Priran]

Implying that FFXI isn't a fun, enjoyable game to play.

That's about as good an argument as could be expected of one that begins with the word "implying". I am not saying FFXI is by itself a wholly unenjoyable game. I'm saying that this is how it seems when you compare it to other MMOs. I'm saying that when your reference pool isn't a puddle, the most exciting part of Abyssea is timing how long you can stifle a yawn.

Any arguments that don't involve me restating a point made in an earlier post?

[Dooom]

So you're saying FFXI isn't unenjoyable... yet we've not played an MMO which is actually enjoyable <.> It must be so nice to say something, turn around and claim "that's not what I meant!" and actually believe it. You're also assuming none of us have experience of other MMOs beyond "a puddle", which is such a stupid, arrogant assumption.